Hello fellow Pathfinders. I'm joining a Kingmaker campaign that's ongoing.. and I wanted to play a spell caster. How do I know which one is for me? The idea of a Sorcerer having bloodlines seems quite cool.. but I'm not sure if that would be more fun than having a vast array of spells, as a wizard.
I'll be in a group with a Paladin, a Cleric, a Fighter, a Rogue, an Oracle, and... a Bard/Magus/Rogue.. I think. Haha.
So, I need advice. I don't know the mechanics of caster classes very well.
Thanks,
Jamesblonde.
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Looks like you've already got some Charisma heavy characters (Paladin, Oracle, Bard/Magus/Rogue). Playing a high Int character can be fun in that context.
Furthermore you're going to have a lot of down time, which is a Wizard's best friend. Time to add to your spell book, build arcane devices or even research entirely new spells (assuming your GM is cool with that kind of thing).
That said, I have a preference for Wizards over Sorcerers, (when I was younger it was the other way around). Nowadays the idea of being a mastermind who has exactly the tool he needs for any given situation seems cool to me. Looks like you've got plenty of damage around, your group might benefit from some utility.
Looks like you've already got some Charisma heavy characters (Paladin, Oracle, Bard/Magus/Rogue). Playing a high Int character can be fun in that context.
Furthermore you're going to have a lot of down time, which is a Wizard's best friend. Time to add to your spell book, build arcane devices or even research entirely new spells (assuming your GM is cool with that kind of thing).
That said, I have a preference for Wizards over Sorcerers, (when I was younger it was the other way around). Nowadays the idea of being a mastermind who has exactly the tool he needs for any given situation seems cool to me. Looks like you've got plenty of damage around, your group might benefit from some utility.
Alright, thank you.. I'll make a Wizard. Now.. there are different spells to pick from, but things like Color Spray are going to be most important.. correct?
Sorcerer is easier, Wizard is more demanding when it comes to day-to-day care. With wizard you have to focus upon understanding current situation and notice all possible hints about furture encounters to make best choices what spells to prepare. Often there are no hints and you have to prepare spells that you think will be best for the day. You allso gets Scribe Scroll for free and should use it often to get scrolls with utility spells for 1/2 price.
As a Sorcerer you have fixed array of spells without eventual flexibility of preparation for specific events but you have much more spells per day. Use Magic Device skill and wands or scrolls from other classes are good investement.
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Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards.
A rough guide to choosing spells. Don't be straight jacketed by optimisation, but it's a good place to start.
Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards.
A rough guide to choosing spells. Don't be straight jacketed by optimisation, but it's a good place to start.
Thank you for your help Dude. :D
Sorcerer is easier, Wizard is more demanding when it comes to day-to-day care. With wizard you have to focus upon understanding current situation and notice all possible hints about furture encounters to make best choices what spells to prepare. Often there are no hints and you have to prepare spells that you think will be best for the day. You allso gets Scribe Scroll for free and should use it often to get scrolls with utility spells for 1/2 price.
As a Sorcerer you have fixed array of spells without eventual flexibility of preparation for specific events but you have much more spells per day. Use Magic Device skill and wands or scrolls from other classes are good investement.
I would have been a Sorc, but Dude made a good point about having a lot of Charisma-based characters in the party already. It's alright though, I think the Wizard will be nice.
Depends on your DM
If you have a lot of down time between games, would say Wizard is better for scribing spell book, scrolls, making magic items, ....Wizard works well as an engineer class.
If you do not have a lot of down time between games... then.... well i would say Cleric or Druid would be better :)
Sorcerer small spell list, always get me down. Nice for Glass cannon build, but well i like options.
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For Kingmaker?
Wizard. Far and away wizard. You simply put, have SO many more options and opportunities for long term study, item creation, and the like in a kingmaker game than... well probably ANY other set and authored campaign than I can think of.
Take the time, and your share of the gold to scribe all as many scrolls into your spellbook, and then proceed to scribe those into scrolls again so you can have a variety of spells available to you "in the field." Just make sure to get your hands on a nice handy extradimensional space to store them, and all your other magical goodies in.
For Kingmaker?
Wizard. Far and away wizard. You simply put, have SO many more options and opportunities for long term study, item creation, and the like in a kingmaker game than... well probably ANY other set and authored campaign than I can think of.
Take the time, and your share of the gold to scribe all as many scrolls into your spellbook, and then proceed to scribe those into scrolls again so you can have a variety of spells available to you "in the field." Just make sure to get your hands on a nice handy extradimensional space to store them, and all your other magical goodies in.
I need your advice on what my Specialized School should be... I see that Divination is good for that, because of the forewarning, that allows me to act in surprise rounds with 1/2 of my wizard level added to Init..
But Conjuration is better for summoning creatures...
That's hard to pick between, and... then the hardest for me is the Forbidden Schools. XD
I have no clue what to forbid. I'm looking to fill the battlefield control, or GOD, role in my party... I hope that helps.
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Really depends on the flavour you're going for.
Again my advice is based on what I'd find fun to play, so take it with a grain of salt.
Divination Specialist: Forbidden Schools - Necromancy and Enchantment. Find out everything there is to know about your enemies. Teleport your party in and wreck 'em with summons! BWAHAHAHA. You don't need Enchantment with such a wide array of high Cha characters, and Necromancy lends itself to morally questionable or not so handy Save-or-Die spells.
That's how I'd roll it, but its important to find your own characterisation and flavour.
Really depends on the flavour you're going for.
Again my advice is based on what I'd find fun to play, so take it with a grain of salt.
Divination Specialist: Forbidden Schools - Necromancy and Enchantment. Find out everything there is to know about your enemies. Teleport your party in and wreck 'em with summons! BWAHAHAHA. You don't need Enchantment with such a wide array of high Cha characters, and Necromancy lends itself to morally questionable or not so handy Save-or-Die spells.
That's how I'd roll it, but its important to find your own characterisation and flavour.
That's really funny, actually.. I had the same setup, just messing with Herolab atm... I guess it's a good way to role it then. :D
Because, I mean.. I definitely don't want to cast evil spells.. and the forewarning is amazing.
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Witch. Unlimited "spellbook" (aka familiar) of the wizard, and if you run out of X/day spells you can rely on your hexes. You sacrifice a bit of the variety of the sorcerer/wizard spell list, but I think the hexes make up for it. They're also good enough that you'll probably barely pick a feat other than Extra Hex. Added bonus: since Int in her spellcasting stat, she'll have lots of skill points to throw around too. High UMD + lots of wands + hexes + witch spells = no need for sorcerer or wizard. You also can ease the healing burden on the cleric, as well.
Witch. Unlimited "spellbook" (aka familiar) of the wizard, and if you run out of X/day spells you can rely on your hexes. You sacrifice a bit of the variety of the sorcerer/wizard spell list, but I think the hexes make up for it. They're also good enough that you'll probably barely pick a feat other than Extra Hex. Added bonus: since Int in her spellcasting stat, she'll have lots of skill points to throw around too. High UMD + lots of wands + hexes + witch spells = no need for sorcerer or wizard. You also can ease the healing burden on the cleric, as well.
Unfortunately I'm not interested in roleplaying as a witch. I can't really mesh with the whole idea of flying on a broom. :D
I would like to have a crafting skill, and I thought that Craft: Book would be cool, for a wizard to have.. I could write about the parties adventures.. but could I sell the book for money? I have no idea how the Kingmaker campaign works... and, even if I could sell the book... do they have a printing press to mass produce it?
If anyone has any knowledge of Kingmaker's economy... please share.
Sorcerers are one trick ponies... they do one thing really well and everything else not so good. If you want versatility, then go with a wizard. I play wizards alot for this reason.
While a Sorcerer isn't the right choice for Kingmaker, which has the downtime to play to the Wizard's item creation feats (and Sorcerers suck at item creation), I can re-iterate what was said up above.
Being a Sorcerer with the right metamagic feats (Elemental Spell and Intensify Spell are the big big ones for blasters, Persistent Spell and Reach Spell are the big ones for Save or Suck spells, and turn the Fey and Infernal bloodline sorcerers into unholy terrors) means that while you may not have the RIGHT tool for the job, you've often got things that can be made to work on the fly.
Being a human sorcerer means having buckets of spells after 5th level due to the favored class bonus. Having standard WBL and wands, or access to scrolls, or access to permanent items that cast N times per day, means you can compensate for the Wizard's flexibility with money, which is ultimately what he's doing to get his vaunted flexibility. Except he'll be futzing along with 5d6 wands of fireball, and you'll be futzing with wands of Detect Thoughts. Guess which one isn't hindered by caster level?
Wizards suck at blasting; the reason why most guides say "Don't be a blaster!" is because the people who wrote them don't understand how well Sorcerers do AT blasting.
Being an 8th level Sorcerer means never having to say "I'm sorry, I'm out of 8d6 fireballs."
Being an 8th level Draconic Half-Orc Sorcerer means never having to say "I'm sorry, I'm out of 8d6+12 fireballs." :)
I'm playing a sorcerer in a kingmaker campaign, I wish I would have played a wizard. The current group I'm playing with has a bunch of charisma based character we didn't need another one, we need an intelligence based character.
While a Sorcerer isn't the right choice for Kingmaker, which has the downtime to play to the Wizard's item creation feats (and Sorcerers suck at item creation), I can re-iterate what was said up above.
Being a Sorcerer with the right metamagic feats (Elemental Spell and Intensify Spell are the big big ones for blasters, Persistent Spell and Reach Spell are the big ones for Save or Suck spells, and turn the Fey and Infernal bloodline sorcerers into unholy terrors) means that while you may not have the RIGHT tool for the job, you've often got things that can be made to work on the fly.
Being a human sorcerer means having buckets of spells after 5th level due to the favored class bonus. Having standard WBL and wands, or access to scrolls, or access to permanent items that cast N times per day, means you can compensate for the Wizard's flexibility with money, which is ultimately what he's doing to get his vaunted flexibility. Except he'll be futzing along with 5d6 wands of fireball, and you'll be futzing with wands of Detect Thoughts. Guess which one isn't hindered by caster level?
Wizards suck at blasting; the reason why most guides say "Don't be a blaster!" is because the people who wrote them don't understand how well Sorcerers do AT blasting.
Being an 8th level Sorcerer means never having to say "I'm sorry, I'm out of 8d6 fireballs."
Being an 8th level Draconic Half-Orc Sorcerer means never having to say "I'm sorry, I'm out of 8d6+12 fireballs." :)
Hmm, okay.. interesting. I'll definitely take it into consideration.
As my first sentence says, in the situation you're in - three high CHA character, plus downtime for item creation - Wizard is far and away the best choice for Kingmaker.
However, the "Which is better!" argument usually turns into "Wizards are infinitely better because of their flexiblity, and having every spell in the book, plus items for the ones they didn't bother to memorize..."
Which I've found to be less the case.
A Fey bloodline Sorcerer getting a CHA of 26 (20 initial, plus 2 stat bumps, plus +4 item) and Greater Spell Focus [Enchantment] with Persistent Spell can make Hold Person into a deathtrap.
Base save DC is 10+3+2+2+8=25, and while they get a saving throw each round, they have to make that saving throw TWICE each round or suffer the effect.
If you want more "Boom" for your buck (pun intended) Alchemist could be a fun option too as it gives good skills and fun abilities with the option for physical combat
For buff magic you can also go summoner although for a "legal" eidolon build i'd suggest you enlist the forum faeries here to help you. :D
Really depends on the flavour you're going for.
Again my advice is based on what I'd find fun to play, so take it with a grain of salt.
Divination Specialist: Forbidden Schools - Necromancy and Enchantment. Find out everything there is to know about your enemies. Teleport your party in and wreck 'em with summons! BWAHAHAHA. You don't need Enchantment with such a wide array of high Cha characters, and Necromancy lends itself to morally questionable or not so handy Save-or-Die spells.
That's how I'd roll it, but its important to find your own characterisation and flavour.
That's really funny, actually.. I had the same setup, just messing with Herolab atm... I guess it's a good way to role it then. :D
Because, I mean.. I definitely don't want to cast evil spells.. and the forewarning is amazing.
Also consider this.
If you take Lookout (a Teamwork Feat in Adv Players Guide), and other party members take this feat, then you all will be able to act in a surprise round as long as they are adjacent to you at the start of it.
That is if I'm reading it all correctly.
For kingmaker, you should make a wizard. Take Craft Wondrous and Craft Arms & Armor. The party will thank you, and the heavies will love you and sing your praise, since there is little heavy armor to be found. Seems like a trend in APs as of late to not include any "good" heavy armor (good meaning at a level of enchantment making it impressive at the level you obtain it).
Also a varied bunch of monsters, so get those monster knowledge skills up, they will come in handy.
- a GM running Kingmaker
[QUOTE="Jamesblonde"
Unfortunately I'm not interested in roleplaying as a witch. I can't really mesh with the whole idea of flying on a broom. :D
Hmm could always strap a saddle to a flying Great sword... I jest.
Id say go with Wizard, lots of down time means some good old fashion item creation, in fact check out the Chillax book its got some cool spells, I believe there is one in there that allows you to possess things that have your image [Some one site this please] so if you want to keep an eye on things just place a bunch of Gnomes around town that look like you, they can even smile with you controlling them.As a side note, I played a witch once, there isnt as much Broom flying as youd expect.
[QUOTE="Jamesblonde"
Unfortunately I'm not interested in roleplaying as a witch. I can't really mesh with the whole idea of flying on a broom. :D
Hmm could always strap a saddle to a flying Great sword... I jest.
Id say go with Wizard, lots of down time means some good old fashion item creation, in fact check out the Chillax book its got some cool spells, I believe there is one in there that allows you to possess things that have your image [Some one site this please] so if you want to keep an eye on things just place a bunch of Gnomes around town that look like you, they can even smile with you controlling them.As a side note, I played a witch once, there isnt as much Broom flying as youd expect.
Hahaha.. :D Alright, that sounds like a cool idea.
For kingmaker, you should make a wizard. Take Craft Wondrous and Craft Arms & Armor. The party will thank you, and the heavies will love you and sing your praise, since there is little heavy armor to be found. Seems like a trend in APs as of late to not include any "good" heavy armor (good meaning at a level of enchantment making it impressive at the level you obtain it).
Also a varied bunch of monsters, so get those monster knowledge skills up, they will come in handy.
- a GM running Kingmaker
Have to agree there... once your wizard can make +2 magic weapon (+1 magic +1 bane), that really does help the whole party if your usally fighting the same creatures. Letting your fighter or ranger get an extra +3 Hit/Damage + 2d6 extra damage vs a bane target is nice. And that fighter or ranger who gets multi attacks for full round action, are just multiplying that advantage per hit.
Best of all, your wizard can create the stuff for 1/2 the sale price, which means your group can get these items at 1/2 the level needed for these items.
Apparently the Fighter in the group already has Craft Arms and Armour, so... I only need to get Craft: Wondrous? The problem is this: I don't see Craft: Wondrous in Herolab... is it not available at lower levels?
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Apparently the Fighter in the group already has Craft Arms and Armour, so... I only need to get Craft: Wondrous? The problem is this: I don't see Craft: Wondrous in Herolab... is it not available at lower levels?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/item-creation-feats/craft-wondrous-item-item- creation---final
Another thing... I'm thinking of getting a Wand of Silent Image... Could someone give me an example of what kind of illusion that would be?
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http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test
I know it was posted before but
Theirs a link in there about how illusion spells work too :)
some tricks:
Guards come to escort you to jail, you make the shadow of a dragon appear on the ground.
Cloud of smoke between enimies and you. inside u have the shawdo of a man chocking to death on it.
If your allies spend an action to interact with it in some way, then its only a dc 11 will save to see threw it, while it gives u concealment to range attacks....
I'd actually say that sorcerer is still not a bad idea for this party. They need a blaster and a battlefield control guy badly, with two healers and two skill monkeys.
My couple of coppers:
If you want to have a versatile sorcerer go with human. Use the favored class to get more spells known and you'll be ok. My level 7 Sorcerer currently has all the spells he'll want to know to cast on a regular basis and I've even taken a few that I normally wouldn't as well (such as command undead). With the human favored class bonus I have:
Spell level -- spells known
0 -- 10
1st -- 8
2nd -- 6
3rd -- 3
Now it's not unlimited -- but it's enough that I'm not going to cast everything I know in one day (I have a 23 Cha which gives me the following spells per day: U/8/7/5).
All in all it's a good mix, and for the few things I don't use regularly I can still fall back on use magic device.
Now if you decide to go the other way and play a wizard (also an excellent choice) you have another option available that can also get you close to where you want to be:
The Pathfinder Savant prestige class will allow you to cast spells from scrolls at your caster level (as early as 8th level) -- so if you only prepare spells that will need a good save throw and scribe everything else you can come close to being "always prepared."
However you might want to run the savant by the GM first -- normally I don't have a problem with this prestige class but the Kingmaker setting could give you more control over time management meaning you might effectively have so many scrolls as to render some adventures too easy for your party.
I'd actually say that sorcerer is still not a bad idea for this party. They need a blaster and a battlefield control guy badly, with two healers and two skill monkeys.
Are we talking about this party?
Hello fellow Pathfinders. I'm joining a Kingmaker campaign that's ongoing.. and I wanted to play a spell caster. How do I know which one is for me? The idea of a Sorcerer having bloodlines seems quite cool.. but I'm not sure if that would be more fun than having a vast array of spells, as a wizard.
I'll be in a group with a Paladin, a Cleric, a Fighter, a Rogue, an Oracle, and... a Bard/Magus/Rogue.. I think. Haha.
Because as I read it, there are 2 damage monsters that likely do melee, a rogue that will need to flank to do anything, and the party is ginormous. Last thing you want to focus on with that in mind is blasting.
Right now I'm liking the Wizard idea a lot.. I'm pretty sure on my decision to make one. Thanks everyone for your help. :D
I chose the Arcane Familiar, Greensting Scorpion..
It gives +2 Initiative, as long as he's within arm's reach of me.. bringing my Init. bonus to 13.
I have Forewarning, from Divination Specialty.. so no being surprised. :D
Seems to be pretty powerful.
with the changes made to the sorcerer, I find them more appealing now, plus they don't have to worry about books or mundane spell components :)