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This is more or less asking for advice on how to approach a subject with a DM.
We are currently playing a Pathfinder Campaign set in the Forgotten Realms. Basically following the storyline of the Daggerdale and retaking the city.
I am a 3rd level Ranger following the Switch Hitter concept from Treeant Monk using the Urban Ranger sub-class because we needed someone to disable traps. My hometown is in the Dalelands and I took the Rich Parents trait.
Moving on to the issues. Last week in the campaign we came across a burning caravan and a few bodies. I decided to attempt to look for clues and was told that I knew nothing about any of the wounds, the tracks, or anything locally. We moved onward into a forest where we were ambushed by Drow. Now, I took (blindly) Humanoid: Elf as my favored enemy because he wouldn't give me any leads to help with my choice, so I tried to make a Knowledge check. He denied my tracking from the caravan, my knowledge check, my attempt to add +2 to my stealth check, and then said I am not roleplaying, I would know nothing about them and that I'd get no bonuses to skills only a +2 to hit and +2 to damage against them.
This sparked me into an anger that the class ability that makes me what I am was being nerfed into a basic +2 to hit and damage that I could get by being a fighter and taking Weapon Focus or whatever, so I asked what if at level 5 I take Aberrations do I get the +2 to skills if we encounter them? His response, no.
Now I don't want to be a d-bag, but what can be done in this situation short of taking myself out of the story and adventure by spending MONTHS in a library researching my favored enemies everytime I get a new one? Our DM got pissed in the first session that we were moving slow because we were roleplaying. Then he gets pissed that we are moving too fast and not roleplaying enough. And now he wants me to nitpick and roleplay every detail like this.
I guess I just want to know if there is something I can use as an argument to get him to relax and accept that my choosing Elves was not only random luck, but that its part of who I am as a character.
Without even knowing your DM, he manages to annoy me.
If it's all the way you just told, you should really have a talk wit him, explaining your problems and what he thinks of it. Sounds like he wants to pick on you.
Send him this message:
Nerfing something without giving warning in advance is really bad GMing. Using "RP" as an excuse is even worse. Stop being a bad GM, or no-one will play with you.
Sincerely, a GM with 17 years of experience.
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Send him this message:
Nerfing something without giving warning in advance is really bad GMing. Using "RP" as an excuse is even worse. Stop being a bad GM, or no-one will play with you.
Sincerely, a GM with 17 years of experience.
See, I've tried both suggestions already. We have a FaceBook page for the campaign (Legends Campaign) that we use for keeping track of everything and a wiki as well.
I went on the FB page and showed him an example of what I meant and made my case. In the Dalelands Shadowdale has been continuously under attack by the Drow for centuries. I am from the Dalelands (not specifically Shadowdale) and come from a rich family. It is obsurd to think that I have had no education, no access to books, and not access to scholars when saying I have no knowledge of the Drow. I blindly took a favored enemy, a SPECIFIC favored enemy, and its finally coming into play...who knows if its the ONLY time it will come into play, and yet I am being reduced to a fighter class short of the numerous feats. I even took the loss of favored terrain because I took the urban ranger sub-class.
I'm trying to be respectful because I would like to keep playing, but his constant rule changes on the fly and nerfing me specifically is getting on my nerves...he also made it so you get one Free Action per round...conveniently right after we gained a level and I took Quick Draw.
lol-did you somehow "mate-poach" his girlfriend?
You should really tell him that you feel he tries to constrain your character in particular.
OK, this guy is not worth it. Walk out. Seriously. Save yourself the grief of having to deal with an obvious control freak who quite clearly has no grasp of either rules, background material, balance or FUN.
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OK, this guy is not worth it. Walk out. Seriously. Save yourself the grief of having to deal with an obvious control freak who quite clearly has no grasp of either rules, background material, balance or FUN.
Eh, it may come to this. I'm going to try and have a discussion with him before our session this week and if he doesn't agree, then I may have to just say "Well my character having such a hatred of elves needs to learn all he can of these 'Drow' and heads off to research this race and more in far off lands".
It took me a couple years to finally get into this group, but I can't stand having my class and everything nerf batted into nothing. It would be different if he made spellcasters RP getting new spells but that is just a POOF there they are.
OK, this guy is not worth it. Walk out. Seriously. Save yourself the grief of having to deal with an obvious control freak who quite clearly has no grasp of either rules, background material, balance or FUN.Eh, it may come to this. I'm going to try and have a discussion with him before our session this week and if he doesn't agree, then I may have to just say "Well my character having such a hatred of elves needs to learn all he can of these 'Drow' and heads off to research this race and more in far off lands".
It took me a couple years to finally get into this group, but I can't stand having my class and everything nerf batted into nothing. It would be different if he made spellcasters RP getting new spells but that is just a POOF there they are.
So, it never struck him mind that you have done the extensive research BEFORE becoming a ranger, as part of your training?
Just put him on the spot, this is starting to smell more like he has a problem with YOU and not your character.
There is absolutely no reason a character from the Dales wouldn't have reasonable knowledge of elves/drow. If your character has never seen drow before, at best, the result of your tracking would be something like, "They appear to be elven footprints, but they are unusually small for the Moon Elves that live in the Dales. You know there are other races of elves; perhaps it is one of them."
While you should roleplay these things to a reasonable degree, studying up in a library is not necessary--your character's background is adequate. (Now, for future favored enemies, such as the aberrant example--if you spent the last 4 levels fighting nothing but dragons and giants and THEN picked "aberrant" as your favored enemy, I would definitely question that. Future abilities you take on should make sense but there is nothing exceptional you need to go out of your way to do to make that happen.)
Taking what you say at face value, I sense that the GM is one of those GMs who has a specific story in mind and isn't going to allow that story to be altered by anything, even perfectly reasonable uses of class abilities as they were intended to be used.
This is the kind of GM who says to the high level cleric who has studied undead all her life and who made a result of 40 on a Knowledge Religion check to recognize a Vampire, "But your character personally has never met a vampire before so you don't know that it's undead let alone that it's a vampire," because in reality, he wants the NPC's identity to be a surprise and lacks the creativity and narrative skill to find a way to do that in a reasonable fashion.
In short, I agree with the others. This is a jerk GM who has no interest in the cooperative play that is essential to making this game fun. Get out now before he completely ruins your and your fellow players' sense of how this game is supposed to be played. The favoritism atop that just ices the cake.
Note: I am speaking as a relatively experienced GM here, not just a player.
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There is absolutely no reason a character from the Dales wouldn't have reasonable knowledge of elves/drow. If your character has never seen drow before, at best, the result of your tracking would be something like, "They appear to be elven footprints, but they are unusually small for the Moon Elves that live in the Dales. You know there are other races of elves; perhaps it is one of them."
While you should roleplay these things to a reasonable degree, studying up in a library is not necessary--your character's background is adequate. (Now, for future favored enemies, such as the aberrant example--if you spent the last 4 levels fighting nothing but dragons and giants and THEN picked "aberrant" as your favored enemy, I would definitely question that. Future abilities you take on should make sense but there is nothing exceptional you need to go out of your way to do to make that happen.)
Taking what you say at face value, I sense that the GM is one of those GMs who has a specific story in mind and isn't going to allow that story to be altered by anything, even perfectly reasonable uses of class abilities as they were intended to be used.
This is the kind of GM who says to the high level cleric who has studied undead all her life and who made a result of 40 on a Knowledge Religion check to recognize a Vampire, "But your character personally has never met a vampire before so you don't know that it's undead let alone that it's a vampire," because in reality, he wants the NPC's identity to be a surprise and lacks the creativity and narrative skill to find a way to do that in a reasonable fashion.
In short, I agree with the others. This is a jerk GM who has no interest in the cooperative play that is essential to making this game fun. Get out now before he completely ruins your and your fellow players' sense of how this game is supposed to be played. The favoritism atop that just ices the cake.
Note: I am speaking as a relatively experienced GM here, not just a player.
I agree that is more than likely what he is doing, but it was more than just that one instance. The Quickdraw scenario came up. He told me it would cost 6g to craft a bear trap (6 times the cost it should be), I was unable to make any check on the "green substance" around the wounds of the corpses (even though I have 3 Ranks in Alchemy), I have to spend a round reapplying poisons in combat and get one use per swing (Drow got unlimited uses with never reapplying), etc.
Its sad, but I guess I am going to have to look for another campaign to participate in.
Thanks for the advice...kind of happy its not just me that thinks he is ridiculous.
kind of happy its not just me that thinks he is ridiculous.
Oh, don't you worry about that, he is so bad he should be used for future reference of how to spot a crap GM.
Life is too short for bad roleplaying and honestly I no longer believe in the idea that bad roleplaying is better than no roleplaying. If the guy continues to houserule character features away without previous warning then call him on it or quit the game.
If he's going to pull something like you the underdark makes the differentiation between surface elves and drow too much then he needed to explain that up front so that people can plan accordingly (because few people are going to choose favored enemy: surface elf unless you are playing an evil campaign - and even then human is soooo much better).
In short gimping without prior warning or alternative features to compensate is a dealbreaker and you shouldn't be held hostage by a bad GM.
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We moved onward into a forest where we were ambushed by Drow. Now, I took (blindly) Humanoid: Elf as my favored enemy because he wouldn't give me any leads to help with my choice, so I tried to make a Knowledge check. He denied my tracking from the caravan, my knowledge check, my attempt to add +2 to my stealth check, and then said I am not roleplaying, I would know nothing about them and that I'd get no bonuses to skills only a +2 to hit and +2 to damage against them.
Right there is a problem; a good GM helps his players with background details before the campaign starts, and ensures that they make sense with the PC's background and build, and don't cause clashes with other PCs ("You do know Jim's playing an elf, right? You aren't going to gut him in his sleep?").
If he had a problem with elf as favored enemy, he should have spoken up then.He's the one who forced you to go to the novels, the campaign setting, the wiki, to find out more about your home area. And you picked something that made sense, based on common knowledge of the inhabitants. To accuse you of not roleplaying is absurd.
It would be metagaming, if you read the scenario behind his back. Or if you went through his bag to find what figures he'd brought.
You did neither, and yet he's upset, that he, knowing your choice, chose to set your favored enemy against you, and you expect to be able to apply the relevant bonus as written in the rules?
That's idiotic.
A 30-year GM.
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Just a novice-DM/GM here, chiming in to say I agree with everyone.
If talking hasn't worked, it's time to leave. Or maybe even openly say that you'd like to run a game where all these terrible house rules won't even exist.
Don't worry about not being able to get your RP fix, that's what the messageboards are for!
EDIT: I would also like you to see if you can get this DM to post in this thread. Who knows, a community may do more good when talking to him.
I don't know why he'd give you +2 to hit and damage from you favored enemy of Elf but not the skill bonuses. That makes no sense. I could see arguing that Drow while technically are Elves might not apply, DM call here assuming you've never encountered a Drow, but if that was the case you wouldn't get the +2 to hit and damage either. It's a package deal after all.
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I don't know why he'd give you +2 to hit and damage from you favored enemy of Elf but not the skill bonuses. That makes no sense. I could see arguing that Drow while technically are Elves might not apply, DM call here assuming you've never encountered a Drow, but if that was the case you wouldn't get the +2 to hit and damage either. It's a package deal after all.
Ironically...3 other members of our 6 man party have now texted me saying they think he is just not doing it for us and we need to have a talk with him or move on...