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so, yeah, where does it say that you get more then 1 sneak att./round?
so, yeah, where does it say that you get more then 1 sneak att./round?
How about, where does it say that you're limited to only one per round?
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Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage [bigger]anytime[/bigger her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6 at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.
With a weapon that deals nonlethal damage (like a sap, whip, or an unarmed strike), a rogue can make a sneak attack that deals nonlethal damage instead of lethal damage. She cannot use a weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage in a sneak attack, not even with the usual –4 penalty.
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment.
The sneak attack rules say
The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.
I would take that to mean unless your opponent somehow gets out of flank or his dex back between your attacks all of them get the bonus.
Although someone is bound to point out it says attack not attacks however as long as each attack meets the criteria for the sneak attack then it should work.
Ninja'd :)
on several theads here about rouges say that you can have more then one sneak attack per round, i'd like to know where to here the RAW about that.
The sneak attack rules that were posted. That answers the question. As long as you meet sneak attack conditions...you get sneak attack. Those conditions are not usually automatic and take some work to make happen or can be defeated, some with nothing more than a five foot step or a better initiative roll.
Greg
EDIT: and is this a rules question? or are you leading up to an advice question?
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on several theads here about rouges say that you can have more then one sneak attack per round, i'd like to know where to here the RAW about that.
You just ignored a bunch of raw about it.
Page 68 of the CRB, under the sneak attack heading says thus:
"The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to ac, or when the rogue flanks her target."
This is the requirement to make a sneak attack.
Are you making an attack? Then is the rogue flanking or is the target denied dexterity bonus to ac? If the answer is yes to either of those, then the attack deals sneak attack damage.
So the limiter becomes how many attacks you're making a round. You can only make one attack? Then just one sneak attack. But, wait, you're dual-wielding and high level? Then that's six or seven sneak attacks.
It's not nearly as much damage as it looks though. Because the rogue has a lower attack bonus than, say, the fighter, the fighter will usually out-damage the rogue. This is because the rogue will miss far more frequently than the fighter will. Seven attacks don't help you if only the first two hit.
If that still doesn't work for you, and the fact that all the people here are saying you can do it, then I suggest you try to put together a list from the book as to why you cannot do it. Or have the person you're trying to convince do it, if you're looking for ammunition to prove to them that sneak attacks do work.
thanks guys, you've answered my question.
Oh, and sorry if I came across as snippy. Cuz I was :( Just had a heated discussion on this a few days ago. Still tender :P
Greg
Indeed - you can TWFing with a rogue to try and take this to the max, but ... you top out at six attacks a round for multiple feats (and you don't have that many), compared to the fighter you are much less likely to hit (-2 for TWFing with light weapons, 3/4 BAB, no weapon training and no Greater Weapon Focus), and you have to be flanking your target.
If you DID manage to deal more damage than the fighter, then the odds are whatever you were fighting would turn on you, and you have less AC and less hit points than the fighter.
At best the TWF rogue is a glass cannon.
.......If you DID manage to deal more damage than the fighter, then the odds are whatever you were fighting would turn on you, and you have less AC and less hit points than the fighter.
At best the TWF rogue is a glass cannon.
Not to derail the thread, but isn't this why rogues always need to invest skill points in Tumble....er...excuse me, Acrobatics?
In your example, Dabbler, couldn't the rogue tumble (Acrobatic check) away from the enemy and avoid an AoO and even then also avoid getting smacked hard in the next round?
Again, not trying to start a row, I just was always a bit shaky on how that whole 3.5 Tumble thing (and thus, now Acrobatics) worked in terms of the exact situation presented in your example.
Thanks!
.......If you DID manage to deal more damage than the fighter, then the odds are whatever you were fighting would turn on you, and you have less AC and less hit points than the fighter.
At best the TWF rogue is a glass cannon.
Not to derail the thread, but isn't this why rogues always need to invest skill points in Tumble....er...excuse me, Acrobatics?
In your example, Dabbler, couldn't the rogue tumble (Acrobatic check) away from the enemy and avoid an AoO and even then also avoid getting smacked hard in the next round?
Again, not trying to start a row, I just was always a bit shaky on how that whole 3.5 Tumble thing (and thus, now Acrobatics) worked in terms of the exact situation presented in your example.
Thanks!
The Rogue is perfectly capable of doing that... but then they're not Two-Weapon Fighting, because that needs a Full-round action to get off all their attacks.
The Rogue is perfectly capable of doing that... but then they're not Two-Weapon Fighting, because that needs a Full-round action to get off all their attacks.
Ah-ha! That's the point I had been missing; thanks for the clarification.
For a TWF rogue it's often worth taking a couple of levels in Fighter or Ranger just to grab that extra BaB..not to mention HP
Small rogues should just avoid TWF altogether though, you'll never overcome the lower damage output levels.
Small rogues should just avoid TWF altogether though, you'll never overcome the lower damage output levels.
I really disagree. At higher levels your sneak attack dice totally drown out whatever your normal damage would be.
For a TWF rogue it's often worth taking a couple of levels in Fighter or Ranger just to grab that extra BaB..not to mention HP
Small rogues should just avoid TWF altogether though, you'll never overcome the lower damage output levels.
A halfling rogue throwing daggers with rapid shot quick draw and two weapon fighting may only be able to sneak attack in the first round... but what a first round.
The TWF rogue should also invest many many points in UMD and make as much use of wands of greater invisibity as he can.
and all I have to say to the above is..what was I thinking..
Just remember guys that some things are still immune to sneak attack..like elemental subtype creatures
Had a halfling ranger level 2 rouge 1 with point blank shot and rapid shot doing 1d6 with bow and 1d6 with sneak attack at 30ft or closer. Ruled th game as far as dmg went. Just stood in the middel of the room and pumped the arrows out.
How did he keep doing sneak attack damage every round from just standing in the middle of the room? 3rd level is a little low to have access to Greater Invisibility.
Had a halfling ranger level 2 rouge 1 with point blank shot and rapid shot doing 1d6 with bow and 1d6 with sneak attack at 30ft or closer. Ruled th game as far as dmg went. Just stood in the middel of the room and pumped the arrows out.
Only works when you're invisible the whole time or at the beginning of the fight, since once they're no longer flat-footed, you can't sneak attack them without giving away your position and thus your hidden condition, meaning you're no longer in the position to make sneak attacks.
our druid rememberd his wolf got a trip with his bite.
Just to clarify: prone doesn't make you susceptible to sneak attacks.
our druid rememberd his wolf got a trip with his bite.Just to clarify: prone doesn't make you susceptible to sneak attacks.
And in fact makes it more difficult to hit them with ranged attacks.
But he has already said this is a house-ruled situation.
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In our earlyer days of role playing we had a whole set of rules writen up for what the pathfinder cambat manuver rules now cover because we were mixing differant game systems. It gave us a stand alone method so we dident get things mixed up. I find the paizo rules system mechanic much easyer and now hold it as the law. Even to the other games we play like star wars and the gurps general rules.
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I also said I got negitivs for shooting into melee.
Also my coment was to answer and coment about small characters in combat and sneak attacking with effectivness, not have my post put threw the blender.
Halflings get a +4 bonus to stealth,a +2 bonus to dex, and are often played in a class that has stealth s a skill. If you have the ability to sneak attack, its not to hard to find a way to gyp a bad guy out of his dex bonus one way or another.
Obscuring mist, ranged attacks, and fellow PCs to hold a line. A good way to create cover to stealth and open fire. just need to tactically plan ur movement and 30' range. Rouge with UMD and wand of obscuring mist does wonders. Fog Cloud also helps as well. Simple enough.
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Obscuring mist, ranged attacks, and fellow PCs to hold a line. A good way to create cover to stealth and open fire. just need to tactically plan ur movement and 30' range. Rouge with UMD and wand of obscuring mist does wonders. Fog Cloud also helps as well. Simple enough.
You can't sneak attack enemies with concealment without a feat from APG.
Obscuring mist, ranged attacks, and fellow PCs to hold a line. A good way to create cover to stealth and open fire. just need to tactically plan ur movement and 30' range. Rouge with UMD and wand of obscuring mist does wonders. Fog Cloud also helps as well. Simple enough.You can't sneak attack enemies with concealment without a feat from APG.
I'm fairly certain they mean to put the obscuring mist up around yourself, then 5 ft step along the edge of the mist and attack from it. Since you have concealment, you can stealth to hide and attack from hidden position, thus denying dex bonus if the target fails his perception. Since the target isn't in the mist, he doesn't get any concealment.
I hate being the guy, but it is getting hard for me to keep reading it over and over.
is not the same as
I understand it is a quick and easy typo. I do it myself sometimes.
Greg
you wouldn't cast on the bad guys. you would cast at the begining area and hide in the 5' ring outside the AOE of obscuring mist/ fog cloud. that way you have concealment to hide and bad guys wouldn't. Plus your squishies could hide amongst the mist if stuff hit the fan. Now if there is an Arcane caster with AOE that ruins it a bit but Fog cloud covers the field which then you could sneak from cloud to cloud. Tough to do but if ya practice it really lets Sneak Attack shine, plus party members can benefit from cover as well provided from Mist/ Cloud.
I saw the feat that does let you sneak attack with concealment and i just smiled ear to ear. Wait till my party sees the fun in that. LOL.
aye rogue. LOL. my kids are beggin to play WOW and DDO. Dont always see the typos.
aye rogue. LOL. my kids are beggin to play WOW and DDO. Dont always see the typos.
I can't play MMO's anymore, my kitten gets jealous of the keyboard and mouse and decides to play with them during raids and such. :/
Greg
Halflings get a +4 bonus to stealth,a +2 bonus to dex, and are often played in a class that has stealth s a skill. If you have the ability to sneak attack, its not to hard to find a way to gyp a bad guy out of his dex bonus one way or another.
When you attack from hiding, you're no longer hidden after the attack. That means you can only get one sneak attack out of that, and then the guy sees you.
You can opt to use the sniping option, but that reduces you to one attack per round, as you use a standard action to shoot and then a move action to hide immediately (with a hefty penalty).
I'm not saying it's impossible to sneak attack more than once per fight, but if you want to sneak attack more than once per round, flanking is your best bet, and that's for mêlée only. So unless you have improved invisibility or it's the first round and you won init against those enemies, you'll have a very hard time to get more than one ranged sneak attack in that round!
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For the sneak attack with a bow thing. you could always be a dwarf (or something else with Darkvision) and be in an area of Darkness as per the spell?
Per the spell, someone with Dark vision would be able to see normally in the area of darkness, but would (with correct lighting conditions) have total concealment from his targets.
Just a thought.
For the sneak attack with a bow thing. you could always be a dwarf (or something else with Darkvision) and be in an area of Darkness as per the spell?
Just a thought.
Don't need anything that special.. Just be in an unlit area firing into a lit one. The target can't see you but you can see the target without concealment.
You might need something in order to sneak attack at a range larger than 30 if the target is farther away than that.
-James
The APG has a couple of things to help in that regard: The sniper archetype will increase your sneak attack range, and there is a magic item that greatly increases it.