Given the strong demand that there has been for both print and pdf versions of the new, revised Torn Asunder: Critical Hits for Pathfinder, I am curious about how the response would be for an updated Arms & Armor PFRPG Edition?
Like Torn Asunder, this would not only be an updated book, but with expanded content as well. We would add all new material and bring in new OCG material from the open source Pathfinder compatible supplements. Most likely, this would be a hardcover release, which means the print cost would be higher (somewhere in the $40-$50 range).
So Paizonians, what say you? Would such a book be welcome at your table? Is there anything in particular you would like to see included that fits the general theme?
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
I'd be interested, but for $40-$50, I'd expect a very thick book. 200+ pages. And I'd expect not just artwork for the weapons and armor, but also some optional rules to clean up some of the messier bits of the system.
Examples :
Weapon Damage progression (1, 1d2, 1d3, 1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 1d10, 2d6, 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, etc) instead of the mess there is now with non-standard damage dies and having to keep track of a 10 by 10 table.
Rules for using 'similar' weapons for different sized races without penalty. A human shortsword can be a halfling longsword and an ogre's dagger with no penalty, for example. Ala Sting from LoTR, which was an elven dagger, and a halfling shortsword.
Better rules for unusual materials. No more Adamantium based on classification of item (light/medium/heavy armor for exmaple), priced by the pound like Mithral. Same with dragon skin.
An update of the Unearthed Arcana rules for weapon groups for PF.
Something to fix the crafting rules would be really nice, since they suck.
And not just arms and armor, but a bunch of utility equipment, rules for making arbalests, ballistas and other seige weapons.
I'll post more when I think of it. :)
Great ideas, mdt. Keep them coming.
As for page length being greater than 200, I don't think that will be an issue at all. The original 3.5 version was around 175 pages and with all the material I want to add, it could easily go 250 pages. Artwork will be a combination of existing art and new art. The cover will be by Paul Abrams once again and I've got a line on a fellow that usually does cartography but had some really kickin' weapons and armor drawings in his portfolio at Gen Con. He will be doing some stuff for the book also.
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Steve
Sounds good so far. I'm hoping I understand you correctly, you're going to replicate the weapons and armor from the existing Core and APG, plus add new stuff, correct?
I'd be really happy that way. It's a pain to look for stuff in multiple books. In 3.5, I'd have to look through the A&EG, PG, PGII, the Environment books (Sandstorm, etc), the races books, the Draconomicon... basically half the books I owned to find where that stupid sharkskin armor was.
Oh, some unusual weapon/armor materials that would be interesting...
Bone, Bronze, Obsidian, rhino-hide, rhino-horn (hammer/pick), drake-hide (not as good as dragon, but far far cheaper), shark skin, chiten, rules for how to make permanent ironwood, damascene (sp?) steel, elven vine wrap (non-WoTC version of leaf weave, not sure if it's IP or not), crystal, diamond, jade, flint/stone.
EDIT: Some rules for special features you can grant or enchant into items based on material it's made from. For example, red dragon skin cheaper to get fire based resistance (I think this may already be there, was in 3.5, but can't remember if it made it to PF). Basically something like the dragon component rules in draconomicon. And dont' forget the new primal dragons in that list of dragon skin.
I might be interested.
Sounds good so far. I'm hoping I understand you correctly, you're going to replicate the weapons and armor from the existing Core and APG, plus add new stuff, correct?
We would replicate everything from the original Bastion Press Arms & Armor v3.5 book, plus bring in all the Pathfinder-related stuff we can find and make sure it all works properly for PFRPG.
At this point, I'm leaning against adding general adventuring gear and equipment mostly because the focus of the book is on weapons and armor. However, it is plenty early enough in the process for that to change if there is enough outcry.
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Steve
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Sounds good so far. I'm hoping I understand you correctly, you're going to replicate the weapons and armor from the existing Core and APG, plus add new stuff, correct?
We would replicate everything from the original Bastion Press Arms & Armor v3.5 book, plus bring in all the Pathfinder-related stuff we can find and make sure it all works properly for PFRPG.
At this point, I'm leaning against adding general adventuring gear and equipment mostly because the focus of the book is on weapons and armor. However, it is plenty early enough in the process for that to change if there is enough outcry.
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Steve
Then maybe make two books then. Me I am in favor of more gear more than weapons and armor. Sure weapons and armor are nice but I mean in the end how many different kinds of swords do you need? Where as new gear that's always cool. :)
Then maybe make two books then. Me I am in favor of more gear more than weapons and armor. Sure weapons and armor are nice but I mean in the end how many different kinds of swords do you need? Where as new gear that's always cool. :)Sounds good so far. I'm hoping I understand you correctly, you're going to replicate the weapons and armor from the existing Core and APG, plus add new stuff, correct?
We would replicate everything from the original Bastion Press Arms & Armor v3.5 book, plus bring in all the Pathfinder-related stuff we can find and make sure it all works properly for PFRPG.
At this point, I'm leaning against adding general adventuring gear and equipment mostly because the focus of the book is on weapons and armor. However, it is plenty early enough in the process for that to change if there is enough outcry.
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Steve
I agree, I'd be surprised if you get 270 pages out of just arms and armor (unless you're also putting in magic arms and armor?). However, if you do only do arms and armor, I'd do an equipment guide as well, something along the lines of the Magic Item Compendium, but with mundane equipment and magic equipment. Please don't go for nothing but nifty flashy high level/power/cost equipment. The reason I loved the MiC was all the low level but useful magic equipment (my groups used to buy a box o' infinite food every game, just so they had a big box full of food to hand out or give to followers or npcs, even though most used rings of sustenance).
I would be interested, especially if there is a good collection of alchemical items. I always felt like alchemy was never fully developed (and poisons, which would also be nice), it kinda loses its luster early in most campaigns and I would love to see some items that stretch its life out a bit more.
I agree, I'd be surprised if you get 270 pages out of just arms and armor (unless you're also putting in magic arms and armor?). However, if you do only do arms and armor, I'd do an equipment guide as well, something along the lines of the Magic Item Compendium, but with mundane equipment and magic equipment. Please don't go for nothing but nifty flashy high level/power/cost equipment. The reason I loved the MiC was all the low level but useful magic equipment (my groups used to buy a box o' infinite food every game, just so they had a big box full of food to hand out or give to followers or npcs, even though most used rings of sustenance).
Oh, there is a lot of magic weapons and armor in the original. You will find stuff for all levels of play. A huge book can be done if well researched. For instance, take a look at MonkeyGod Enterprise's From Stone to Steel. it was written in the days of 3.0, but still clocks in at 350+ pages and almost no magic was included. I believe you can still purchase the pdf.
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Steve
Dumb question, but why the company name change? Wouldn't you want to trade on what name recognition you could get with Bastion Press?
Edit: I'd be interested in such a book, but allow me to put my vote in for softcover.
I really miss the multitude of softcovers from earlier versions, and hardcovers really aren't justifying the added expense (yes, I know they cost more to produce, hence the increase in cost - I'm saying that they aren't attractive to me as a premium).
Dumb question, but why the company name change? Wouldn't you want to trade on what name recognition you could get with Bastion Press?
DragonWing Games is my company. After I had formed it, I acquired Bastion Press. I thought long and hard about which company to release the new revised books under, and decided to go with DragonWing to avoid confusion with the old books, some of which are still in print and still have some sales. I do have plans to release some new books under Bastion Press in 2011, however.
Edit: I'd be interested in such a book, but allow me to put my vote in for softcover. I really miss the multitude of softcovers from earlier versions, and hardcovers really aren't justifying the added expense (yes, I know they cost more to produce, hence the increase in cost - I'm saying that they aren't attractive to me as a premium).
I don't have a problem going with a softcover book as long as the page count isn't so large that it will present binding issues with heavy use. We did a very limited softcover release of Arms & Armor v3.5 at Gen Con one year and to the best of my knowledge, very few of those books held up. If the book is going to see a lot of use and has a high page count, hardcover is the wisest route to go.
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Steve
The old champions 3 books had a softcover version that held up very well even to very heavy use. However, the cost was not all that different from the hard-cover, since they had to use heavy duty covers. This was not the standard soft-cover, it was almost a cloth type of paper.
If it's only gonna save me a couple of bucks, I'd rather have the hardcover. At least I can use it as a backstop for my character sheet when making notes in teh game.
I would very much buy this book. I have a play-tester credit in that book, so I have a definite interest in its update for Pathfinder. My friend is the guy who wrote the prosthetic rules for Torn Asunder, so I know that was good stuff. Very interested in this book....
I would very much buy this book. I have a play-tester credit in that book, so I have a definite interest in its update for Pathfinder. My friend is the guy who wrote the prosthetic rules for Torn Asunder, so I know that was good stuff. Very interested in this book....
You're friends with Mike Kogan? Cool! He did an awesome job in the revised Tron Asunder with the exapnsion on the chapter that he wrote. Mike is a really good guy. :)
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Steve
Yep, I'd buy it, oh and if you guys are thinking about it, Airships would be great too
Yep, I'd buy it, oh and if you guys are thinking about it, Airships would be great too
I hadn't considered Airships, but it could always be a possibility down the road, maybe late 2011.
Question,
Will this all be OGL, both the new stuff and the old stuff, or just the OGL you're pulling in?
Question,
Will this all be OGL, both the new stuff and the old stuff, or just the OGL you're pulling in?
100% Open Game Content. I won't publish an OGL book without opening it up for others to use.
The only exception to this would be if I had to use something that required special permission. If that is the case, it will be clearly labeled as being OGC exempt. But the last time I had to do something like that was when I wrote Pale Designs back in 2002-2003. So I doubt it will be an issue.
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Steve
I would very much buy this book. I have a play-tester credit in that book, so I have a definite interest in its update for Pathfinder. My friend is the guy who wrote the prosthetic rules for Torn Asunder, so I know that was good stuff. Very interested in this book....You're friends with Mike Kogan? Cool! He did an awesome job in the revised Tron Asunder with the exapnsion on the chapter that he wrote. Mike is a really good guy. :)
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Steve
LOL, indeed I am. We game twice a week together and I even worked with him as an assistant for his business some time ago. Our kids play together and we make bad jokes about alot of things...so, yeah, I guess you could say we're friends. Seriously, though, Torn Asunder was a great book and I loved the Arms and Armor book. I would definetly get this for Pathfinder.
If it's anything like Arms and Armor from Bastion Press, then yes, I would love an Arms and Armor book from DragonWing Games! :D
PS Golem Armor FTW! :headbang:
As for page length being greater than 200, I don't think that will be an issue at all. The original 3.5 version was around 175 pages and with all the material I want to add, it could easily go 250 pages.
I'd recommend reviewing MonkeyGod's "From Stone to Steel", a 350-page book on weapons and armor grouped by historical age and culture. Putting this equipment into a cultural context may be helpful to PFRPG GMs who want to integrate it into the cultural analogues present on Golarion.
FSTS also included weapon/armor related feats, spells, and prestige classes, which may be a less focused treatment than you are considering. I would not need any of those things to convince me to buy a good weapons/armor/equipment book, but I would like to see some notes (where appropriate, say with exotics) on the use of weapons and their individual drawbacks; tactics; and the use of things like crafting tools and farm implements as weapons. I mean, how iconic is the torch-and-pitchfork mob? But how many weapons lists include the pitchfork as a simple weapon?
I'd recommend reviewing MonkeyGod's "From Stone to Steel", a 350-page book on weapons and armor grouped by historical age and culture. Putting this equipment into a cultural context may be helpful to PFRPG GMs who want to integrate it into the cultural analogues present on Golarion.FSTS also included weapon/armor related feats, spells, and prestige classes, which may be a less focused treatment than you are considering. I would not need any of those things to convince me to buy a good weapons/armor/equipment book, but I would like to see some notes (where appropriate, say with exotics) on the use of weapons and their individual drawbacks; tactics; and the use of things like crafting tools and farm implements as weapons. I mean, how iconic is the torch-and-pitchfork mob? But how many weapons lists include the pitchfork as a simple weapon?
I already planned on incorporating a lot of the information from that book into the new Arms & Armor. :)
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Steve
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Sounds good to me.
Anyone remember the Sears type cataloge for the Forgotten Realms?
Auroars Whole realms Cataloge I think it was called.
Lots of stuff for adventuring, for several classes and all fun.
Yes you could call me a grognard.
If you're wanting an Aurora's-type vibe for Pathfinder, I'd recommend the excellent Luven Lightfinger's Treasure Shop from 4 Winds Fantasy Games. This is more going to be equivalent to the 2e Arms and Equipment Guide, if the 3.5 version of Arms and Armor is any guide.
If there is someone who would be interested in penning an Equipment and Adventurer's book, feel free to drop me a line and we can discuss it as a companion to Arms & Armor.
creech [at] dragonwing [dot] net
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
I just found this thread, are you still open to suggestions for this book? Also, if you need feedback for updating the VERY useful Airship book, I got a few pages of ideas to share (been using the book for years and I have found nothing comparable in scope, so I have created new material to expand on what it already has).
I'm always open to suggestions. I haven't had time to begin work upon it, but there are still plans to release it. As for Airships, it's not on the design board but is something that could be considered.
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Steve Creech
DragonWing Games
I would absolutely spend coin on a hardcover book if it were something along the lines of the MIC except Pathfinderized. Even if it weren't MIC quality, but it had collected all of the arms, armor, mundane and special equipment (I'm thinking here of even things like drugs, poisons, etc.), and added new stuff, all in the same book I'd probably still buy it. I'd also like to suggest (which someone may have already I skipped most of the thread) that there be included all new entirely usable random treasure generation tables.
What I would like to see if more racial weapons, like I dunno, 6 new weapons per race. Elves and dwarves get spoiled all the time with racial weapons, time to give gnomes, halflings and orcs some love.
I'd be very interested, though I'd be against pre-made magical weapons/armor in the book and more supportive of an expanded list of armor/weapon/shield magical effects (with a short section for examples)
What I'd really want is racial weapons, and a much bigger selection of mundane weapons, armor, and shields with innovative options for them, like a wrist strap that helps against disarm attempts.
What I would really pay for is a large book of mundane adventuring items that go into very good detail, like a "Healer's Kit" that does more then simply add a bonus to healing checks but actually allows healing checks against certain things, like poison/disease etc.. and uses up doses of alchemical items in it that can be replaced individually when at a market.
Also, I want dozens and dozens of new poison options, with details on how to collect the ingrediants to make it, and rules on harvesting/collection and preservation of monster poisons.. What good is fending off a poisonous snake attack if you can't harvest it's poison into a few doses of usable toxin?
I'd like there to be much greater options for people who want to run a world without magic. :)