A Mobile Fighter gets Leaping Attack at 5th insteal of Weapon Training 1.
But every 5 levels Leaping Attack increase by 1 (at the same rate of Weapon Trainig).
Does a Mobile Fighter at 9th get a +2 to Leaping Attack AND a Weapon Training feature? Or does he get "only" a +2 to Leaping Attack?
That is a very good question that deserves a good answer.
If there's not a Weapon Training 2, 3 or 4 substitution, you should still get those.
You won't get a +4 bonus eventually, you'll have a +3/+2/+1 when you get to Weapon Training 4.
If there's not a Weapon Training 2, 3 or 4 substitution, you should still get those.
You won't get a +4 bonus eventually, you'll have a +3/+2/+1 when you get to Weapon Training 4.
Incidentally, this means that you get a +1/+1 with a weapon type at level 9 to go with the +2/+2 leaping attack, for a total of +3/+3 if you move at least five feet.
Incidentally, this means that you get a +1/+1 with a weapon type at level 9 to go with the +2/+2 leaping attack, for a total of +3/+3 if you move at least five feet.
For a total of +7/+7 at 17th fighter level? (If you move five feet which is normally not a problem)
It seems too good...!
For a total of +7/+7 at 17th fighter level? (If you move five feet which is normally not a problem)
It seems too good...!
Yeah I kinda think the same about it. Taking a 5ft step is usually no problem when your able to make a full attack anyways--unless your in difficult terrain or entangled, but even then there are feats to negate that. (A ring of freedom of movement would be an ideal magic item too.) I wouldn't consider taking a 5ft step to be much of an issue most of the time, and you get the benefits of Leaping Attack when moving up to a target too. And it applies to attacks with any weapon or attack; this should include CMB checks, thrown weapons, touch attacks, etc...
So in some ways its even better than weapon training anyways. I'd at least say its equal to it.
So is it really fair to say that the mobile fighter loses one point of attack and damage from weapon training to gain four points of attack and damage when taking a 5ft step? At the highest levels thats what it would amount to, and at those levels having a ring of freedom of movement, or a cleric to cast it on you everyday, isn't hard to come by; so at those levels the fighter should get to take a 5ft step or move in pretty much all circumstances. And he thus ends up being +3 (+7 vs +4) attack and damage over any other fighter archetype. That just doesn't seem right.
But then the other archetypes often trade abilities in exchange for individual weapon trainings..i.e. one ability for weapon training 1, another for 2, and so on. But mobile fighter doesn't do this. It simply trades weapon training 1 in and doesn't say anything else about it. And it doesn't say that leap attack is in exchange for weapon trainings 1, 2, 3, and 4 like it might say elsewhere (for example, Shield Ally of the Shielded Fighter archetype for weapon trainings 2, 3, and 4.) So that indicates that since nothing is exchanged for weapon trainings 2, 3, and 4 that the mobile fighter should get them.
But then the Mobile Fighter is the only archetype to get continued weapon trainings. Every other archetype trades in weapon training completely (either all at once or via various ability exchanges), but gets something in exchange that should equal an identical attack and damage boost.
So I'd say that the way its written the mobile fighter should get weapon trainings 2, 3, and 4. But I think theres good reason to believe that the intent was that Leaping Attack would replace all the weapon trainings. If I was DMing I'd definitely say thats how it would work (and I'd make sure the player knows that when selecting his fighter character.)
EDIT: I'd note that the Weapon Master archetype actually ends up with a +5 attack and damage bonus, due to getting weapon training two levels earlier. He'd get "weapon training 5" at 19th level. But then I'd also think that makes sense for the weapon master to get a net +1 over the other archetypes. I don't think it makes sense to give the mobile fighter a net +3 for taking at least a 5ft step each turn.
Ummm.....
Leaping Attack does specify it replaces Weapon Training 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Now, Rondelero, on the other hand, gets Strong Swing AND Weapon Training. Strong Swing only replaces Weapon Training 1, and all the other abilities replace various Armor Training and Bravery.
Guys, you are necromancing a thread that is over 3 years old. It is likely that Leaping Attack has been errata'd in the meantime.
The thing they've never cleared up is how long Leaping Attack works for, however.
Xexyz, that would be a separate issue best left to a new thread rather than necromancing a 3+ year old thread that is no longer a relevant issue.