OK I was working on updating my old Warlock to the Pathfinderized version my GM gave me and I had to pick a new feat and I came across Vital Strike in my core book and, after reading it, could not think of a reason it would not work with Eldritch Blast. While EB is a SLA you use an attack action to use it don't you?
Is Vital Strike the single most important feat a Warlock can ever take?Double, triple or quadrupple EB damage dice? YES PLEASE!
Going one step further would it not also work with any spell that uses an attack roll to hit?
Am I missing something?
I was thinking about this the other day, though not connected to warlocks. i had wondered if you say cast 'vampiric touch' then waited a round could you walk up and use vital strike with it?
Eldritch Blast is not a weapon, it's a class ability.
However, if you really want to break your game, I wont stop you.
Eldritch Blast is a Standard Action, and Vital Strike is a Standard Action. You cannot use both in the same round. The same rule applies to spells.Has Vital Strike been Errata'd? My book says:
'When you use the attack action you may make one attack at your highest BAB that does additional Damage.'
Has it been changed to read: "As a Standard Action you may make one attack at your highest BAB that does additional Damage."
Eldritch Blast is not a weapon, it's a class ability. However, if you really want to break your game, I wont stop you.
Actually it is an Invocation and a 'weapon like spell effect', meaning that it can qualify for many things like a normal weapon can.
But in point of fact I am looking for a way to STOP this, as not only do I NOT want to break the game but I want to make sure the ref never uses it on us with the group of epic Warlocks that are chasing us.
Although I think Mojorat may have a valid point on holding a charge, since you can use an attack action instead of a touch attack to discharge the energy, IIRC.
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While I don't have my book on me, If I recall correctly eldricth blast takes a standard action to use, and do not get to make multiple attacks with it based on your base attack bonus.
So if that's correct, you wouldn't be able to use it with vital strike. Vital strike requires an attack action (standard action) as well as giving up one of you're attacks to make one attack at your highsest bonus and dealing twice the damage.
*ninja'd by everyone under the sun :P
Has Vital Strike been Errata'd? My book says: 'When you use the attack action you may make one attack at your highest BAB that does additional Damage.'
Has it been changed to read: "As a Standard Action you may make one attack at your highest BAB that does additional Damage."
Look closer at your book. An attack action IS a standard action. I know wording catches some people off but it is a standard action.
Look closer at your book. An attack action IS a standard action. I know wording catches some people off but it is a standard action.
Has Vital Strike been Errata'd? My book says: 'When you use the attack action you may make one attack at your highest BAB that does additional Damage.'
Has it been changed to read: "As a Standard Action you may make one attack at your highest BAB that does additional Damage."
Yes but the wording does not say 'AS a standard action you may' it says 'when you do an attack action you can' which could imply that it affects any attack action you do.
I know my ref would love that "shudder".
Or are you saying that using a Standard Action for EB or some other damaging SLA or Spell is not an attack action?
Eldritch Blast is not a weapon, it's a class ability. However, if you really want to break your game, I wont stop you.Actually it is an Invocation and a 'weapon like spell effect', meaning that it can qualify for many things like a normal weapon can.
Agreed, Eldritch Blast qualifies for many things like a normal weapon can, like Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Point Blank Shot, and so on, but it doesn't deal weapon damage. Vital Strike multiplies your weapon damage, but it doesn't multiply the energy damage made by your weapon (like fire damage from a flaming weapon, for example). Eldritch Blast does ''eldritch'' damage (or energy damage, if you're using some invocations), not weapon damage, so it cannot be multiplied by Vital Strike.
Relevant clarification from Jason.
Thanks for the link but the previous post about actions made me relook at them and 'Attack' actions are all listed in a seperate section, under Standard Actions, than 'Spellcasting' or using SLA's which thankfully shuts it down as well.
Now that I have the answers, I can try and scare the hell out of my GM by asking to do it and have the reason why not all ready to go if she says yes.
It is interesting to note that by literal reading you cannot technically 'attack' with any sort of spell since everything to do with them are all 'spellcasting' actions. The 'attack' action section is literally only for actual manufactured or natural weapons only.
So I guess weapons 'attack' and spells 'resolve'. :)
I don't remember the wording on the Warlock ability that allows you to charge your weapon and deliver the blast with a weapon strike. It would be worth reading that carefully.
I don't remember the wording on the Warlock ability that allows you to charge your weapon and deliver the blast with a weapon strike. It would be worth reading that carefully.
It's called Hideous Blow. At best, Vital Strike would multiply your weapon damage, not the extra damage coming from the Eldritch Blast.
I don't remember the wording on the Warlock ability that allows you to charge your weapon and deliver the blast with a weapon strike. It would be worth reading that carefully.
It is Hideous Blow.
"As a standard action you can make a single melee attack. If you hit..."
Should be the same reasoning as normal EB. It is an invocation that has a melee attack as part of it but it is still an Invocation and SLA and as such it is using a standard action under the spellcasting heading, NOT using an attack action.
Although a 'Belt of Battle' can allow you to use two standard actions in one round, the question then is, even with two standed actions to SPEND can you combine the effects? My thinking is no.
Actually in kingmaker the question is somewhat answered in the opposite manner, where one of the big foes in that adventure path's tactics IS to use vital strike with ranged touch attacks/effects
** spoiler omitted **
Good catch!
Note: I'm not a Pathfinder rules expert.
But, I think Vital Strike should be able to be applied to any single attack that requires an attack roll. Not full attacks, but single attacks. And, yes, this makes it a no-brainer feat for a warlock, but then the warlock isn't a Pathfinder class, but the Jabberwock's eye ray is very similar to the warlock's EB.
The thing is. Can the jabberwock use it more then once/round?
That is what I was thinking. So the eye attacks are part of a full attack, while the EB is a standard action.
That is what I was thinking. So the eye attacks are part of a full attack, while the EB is a standard action.
Right. The whole concept behind the Vital Strike feat is to be able to make a decent amount of damage without using the Full Attack action. Allowing it to work with an ability that cannot be used multiple times in a single round with a Full Attack action would be just silly.
2 eye rays +26 touch (15d6/19–20 plus burn)Since the jabberwock can get two in a round it's able to vital strike.
I'm not sure that's a valid interpretation, Lazaro.
It seems that firing two beams per round is a Standard Action for the Jabberwock.
The lesser jabberwock can project beams of fire from its eyes as a ranged touch attack as a standard action. It projects two beams...
The part about using Vital Strike has to do with its behavior when injured. For whatever reason, it limits itself to one beam when flying to fast heal (not sure why, but it probably has to do with using Flyby Attack). But, firing two beams is a standard action for the Jabberwock.
Also, I don't see that the Jabberwock can actually full attack with its Eye Beams.
As I said, I'm not a Pathfinder rules expert, but from everything I've read and the interpretations I've seen on these boards, I'd've expected Vital Strike to be limited to only attacks that could be used with the full attack action (as I think you were trying to say when you said
Since the jabberwock can get two in a round it's able to vital strike.
But, I think the ability to fire two in a round as a standard action is part of the supernatural nature of the ability (since firing two per round is a standard action for the Jabberwock) and that it has nothing to do with whether or not Vital Strike can be used with the ability.
The use of Vital Strike by the Jabberwock appears to be a behavior (and/or flavor) issue rather than an optimization issue. It should be able to fire two beams per round at the same target while flying for about the same average damage that it would get from firing one beam with Vital Strike.
So, what am I missing?
One more thing, for now.
Comparing the Jabberwock's Eye Beams to the Warlock's Eldritch Blast isn't an apples to apples comparison. The beams are a supernatural ability. Eldritch Blast is a spell-like ability.
According to the PFRPG FAQ posted at [url=http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/pathfinder-faq#TOC-Vital-Strike-3-7-10-]d20pfsrd.com]LINK[/ur],
Q: How does Vital Strike effect weapon-like spells (ie Chill Touch, Inflict Light Wounds)?
A: (James Jacobs 11/5/09) Vital Strike does not allow you to sneak out extra damage with spells unless that spell works like a weapon. You could vital strike with a Flame Blade. Not with a Scorching Ray.[Source]
A: (James Jacobs 11/6/09) Vital Strike wasn't ever intended to give spellcasters a way to double their damage dice, and you can expect it to be reworded in an upcoming FAQ sooner or later to enforce this role.[Source]
So, the question is this: Is Eldritch Blast considered a 'weapon-like' spell-like ability? I say no. Therefore, Vital Strike cannot be used with it. However, if Eldritch Blast were a supernatural ability, then I'd say Vital Strike could be used with it (as the Jabberwock uses it with its supernatural Eye Beam).
But, you might want to consider combining Vital Strike with the Warlock's Eldritch Glaive (a weapon-like blast shape invocation). But, that probably won't work, either, since even a single attack with Eldritch Glaive is a full round action (although a full attack is allowed, too).