Hi,
we're going to start an AP sometime early next year and I'm still pondering about my character. I'll play a Witch. The rest of the party will be Alchimist (Archer), Paladin (Tank) and Some-Melee-Guy (player is undecided. Maybe Barbarian or Inquisitor). Anything from Core or APG is legal.
So I'll be the only real spellcaster, trying to cover healing and arcane spells (mostly battlefield control and debuffs) at the same time. I'll use Hexes and self-made wands to lessen the strain on my spells per day.
My feat selection right now is:
1) Extra Hex
H) Extra Hex
3) Improvred Initiative
5) Craft Wand
7) Improved Familiar (already discussed how this'll work with my GM)
Beyond this, I'm lost. My initial idea was to go wih the shadow patron and take Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) to make the Shadow spells (more) reliable. But it seems like a very limiting idea as the witch doesn't have many Illusion spells. (Though I do like the idea of +2 DC to Wandering Star Motes).
However, without the Spell Focus, I probably can't really rely on the shadow spells.
Then again, the other Patrons don't really appeal to me all that much, having only 2-3 "wanna have" spells each at most.
I also considered SF (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning, however spending full-round actions on spells instead of doing some cackling sounds poor as well.
So yeah, is Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) worth the investment with the Shadow Patron? If not, what feats/patrons would you suggest otherwise?
(I'm not a big fan of Mata Magic, by the way.)
Always nice to see a witch on here!
I see you are going for the 3 hexes at first level gambit, very worthwhile......
I like evil eye, slumber and cackle at first level
I also like healing, evil eye and, cackle at first level
I personally am putting slumber off till level 2, sleep spell works fine at level 1.
Misfortune vs. Evil Eye
Evil eye spreads the love around to multiple opponents,
misfortune is great against 1 BBEG....
In a mixed group I evil eye the main leader first, then again, and maybe a third time, -2 attacks, -2 AC, -2 saves, then cackle to keep it going......
I empathize with your feelings in regards to the patron spell list and conjuration (which can be a real hassle). Unless you are going for gnome witch (which is awesome), may I point out the strengths of two patrons you probably skipped over.
First, there is transformation. Now, you may be yawning at the thought of beast shape, but drill down into the spells and consider this. That one line of spells takes care of all movement essentially. This frees up the rest of your slots for non-utility spells. Plus, being a dragon is always fun.
Second, consider elemental. Yes, a Witch is hardly an evoker. But, again, this line of spells really opens up your ability to do direct damage when you have to. Even RavingDork (a frequent poster) acknowledges that evokers can save your bacon. AND, the list gives you Wall of Ice. While you have some battlefield control spells, this is the only wall spell available to you.
If you are truly set on illusions, may I suggest taking one level of Wizard and specializing in the Shadow sub-school of illusion. You'll get lots of 1st level spells. You'll have a book and a feat to scribe in all of your witch spells, in case something happens to your familiar. It gives you access to color spray and silent image (and grease). And, you may be able to use a lot more magical items. Again, also consider being a gnome, if only for the Trickster (+1 illusions) and Excitable (+2 initiative traits). The bonus to AC and con is nice for a class that won't have a lot of either.
@Barnabus: Well, I left out Hex choices because I've already decided which to take and didn't want a discussion about those. Thanks for your comments, anyways :)
I saw that you went with the Wisdom Patron. Any specific reason for that?
@TheDoctor: Transformation is not very appealing to me. Many movement issues can be solved with Flight (spell or Hex) and I can't see me using the shape spells for something else. Ever.
As for Elemental, that's probably my second best favorite patron after shadow. As you said, Wal of Ice is very nice, though the Reflex save for adjectant enemies kinda hurts.
Then again, I could just as well use Shadow Evocaion to form a Wall of ice - and do so much more.
Shadow Conjuraion would also allow me to use Summon Monster spell without a full round cast and can even improve my mobility by mimicking Phantom Steed with a WAY shorter casting time than the normal spell (1 rd as opposed to 10 minutes).
Oh, great. The more I think about it, the more I come up with reasons why to NOT take anything besides Shadow. That was not exactly what I was hoping for ^^'
And about the gnome and wizard ideas: I don't want to multiclass because my hex progression would be delayed too much. As for gnomes, the +1 illusion DC is nice but being human allows me to start with INT 20 (and I most likely WILL do that) which give me +1 DC to ALL spells and even more spells per day (3 at level 1 instead of 2). And we play without traits.
Still, thanks for the input. Much appreciated :)
Feel free to add anyting that comes to mind.
Well I liked Trickery for Mirror Image personally, best defense spell in the game.
As far as Feats go, with all those Enchantment spells on the Witch's list I would recommend Spell Focus Enchantment & Greater Spell Focus Enchantment.
As a plan B: I would pick up Spectral Hand and use some of those nasty Necromancy touch attack spells to firstly continue with the whole De-buffer feel of the Witch and secondly give you something useful to do against those monsters that can't be Enchanted or put to Sleep.
@TheDoctor: Transformation is not very appealing to me. Many movement issues can be solved with Flight (spell or Hex) and I can't see me using the shape spells for something else.
The one thing you might like about Transformation is that you can apply any of those "personal" spells to your familiar. Since you've already worked with your GM to have something special regarding the familiar, a super buff familiar route might be fun.
I don't want to multiclass because my hex progression would be delayed too much.
I agree, you're set back slightly on hexes, but your spell progression is hurt even more. You'd basically be trading highest-level spells for more first-level spells.
As for gnomes, the +1 illusion DC is nice but being human allows me to start with INT 20 (and I most likely WILL do that) which give me +1 DC to ALL spells and even more spells per day (3 at level 1 instead of 2).
This is a personal pet peeve of mine. Instead of giving both small races +2 Charisma, they should have given Gnomes +2 Intelligence.
I did wisdom because it fit into the selected diety....ie not optimization it just seemed to fit the concept!
I also expect to go Witch 5/Ranger 1/ Eldritch knight....
I did wisdom because it fit into the selected diety....ie not optimization it just seemed to fit the concept!
Fair Enough :)
I also expect to go Witch 5/Ranger 1/ Eldritch knight....
Well for a EK-build, I'd go with Wisdom, too ;D
we have a witch/druid going for mytic theurge.
she took transformation,
shes a half-elf and took the ancestry arms trait instead of skill focus.
so she has a long bow.
plinks pretty ok at some things.
gets a shield and a scimitar from druid.
her concept is to change and morph alot
she has charm hex, tounges hex, and disguise hex.
shes been really invaluable out of combat, she hasnt gotten into changing into anything yet, but intends on taking the new hex in the add on pdf, something about familiar growth, turns her familiar into a second animal companion.
Lots of ability to buff animals, shes been alot of fun. Of course if you are looking for a kick arse combat character......
i dunno id look at shadow patron and some levels in shadow dancer.
Alchemy and the cauldron hex (+13 alchemy with one rank is pretty staggering) can give you access to some low-level elemental blasts (acid flasks are nice on swarms/undead that you normally don't effect, smokebombs are handy getaways, etc), and brew potion can help you ease that healing strain before you start making wands regularly.
I thought about Cauldron, too. But we got an Alchemist in our group, so I dropped that idea.
I love deception as a patron selection. It's your only access to invisibility (wat...but still), and blink can be infinitely useful. Yeah, confusion is a lame duck at 4th, but passwall and (later) timestop? Programmed image can be pretty rad in the right situation, too.
Invisibility is of course great, but I'm not a big fan of the rest. Blink might be useful if I could use Hexes without fail while Blinking but that probably won't work. Ending multiple buffs/debuffs because one Cackle goes of on the Ethereal Plane seems too much of a risk. Programmed Image is quite good but requires preperation and I get at least Silent Image from the Shadow patron. I doubt that I'll ever have a level high enough for Time Stop and I'd actually say Shades comes close in overall usefulness (less powerful than timestop bur WAY more versatile).
Regarding feats, my witch wound up as the party artificer. spell selection is just varied enough that you rarely get more than one +5 DC on CWI, and most of the good ring and weapons are available. If I hadn't done that I'd have gone for a pile of extra hexes, toughness (you don't have much in the way of defense spells), etc.
From what I've heard about the AP, we won't have much prolonged downtime and I think it'd be hard to craft wands and wondrous items - especially since I plan to get MANY wands.
I'm still not convinced to drop Shadow, but you do make some very good points that I'l need to consider. Thank you :)
@Pendagast: The Witch/Druid sounds like it could be fun, but it's not what I'm looking for. And according to the FAQ, you don't get Patron spells unless you have the required levels as witch, prestige classes don't count.
And there is no way I'll ever meet the requirements for shadow dancer. Especially Combat Reflexes would be totally wasted.
But regardless thanks for your input!
For patrons I like the Green, it covers all the Neutral alignments NG, NE, LN, CN, N, and fits with Witch/Druid, also Desna as the Goddess of the Night(Witch) and as such the defacto Moon(Witch) as no one takes that role really except the evil moon guy... The Lyrune-Quah (The Moon Clan) of Shoanti worship Desna and have the Moon as a tribalspirit sign. Also the Varisians worship Desna. The Witch in the Pathfinder Novel Prince of Wolves was a Varisian who Worshiped Desna. OK so I am verbose... The Varisian Druids take Desna as their patron Deitie.
I had something to offer, if not a lot.
First is a witch is a good choice as the only real caster, because hexes can be used mostly as often as wanted, but 1/day for each target. I think slumber is great at level 1 as its save or die. A witch with lots of wands especially.
I don't think eldrich knight is the best choice for this group. You will just get the witch spells, and your group will have 2 or 4 melee specialists.
I was going to suggest craft wondrous item. Lots of utility there, or course if you are not going to get much downtime....
I like the Shadow patron a lot, but you are waiting quite a while until you can pull off the key spells (namely Shadow Conjuration and Evocation, or even Wandering Star Motes). The flip side is that you can wait to take the Spell Focus feats until 7th level, and take your other feats in the earlier levels.
I know someone suggested a level of Wizard, but I would recommend against doing anything to delay your casting progression as a general rule. In this case, it also delays getting your key Shadow spells.
If you decide against Shadow, while less exciting, the Healing patron might be a good fit for your party, as you guys don't have a dedicated divine caster for condition removal (which is an equally important part of the 'healer' role).
Otherwise, I actually quite like the Summer patron for a decent mix of things, including some good area control/damage spells later on, or perhaps Storms for some area control and blasting, or even Time or Thorns for another decent mix (though Wrath as the 2nd level spell for Thorns hurts, as does Ventriloquism for the 1st level Time spell).
As for Hexes, I will go against the grain here and say I don't like Slumber at all. Not because it isn't effective (it is), but because it isn't all that fun for the group -- either it ends up trivializing an encounter, or it doesn't work at all. I'd therefore recommend using your hexes on things to buff your allies or debuff your enemies (Fortune, Misfortune, Evil Eye), as well as other good stuff like Flight and Soothsayer.
Have you seen the Legacy of Dragons witch archetype Wyrmwitch? Its very nice and comes with a new list of pretty badass patrons. It also trades your familiar out for a small treasure hoard and has a new mechanic for adding spells to your list from a wizard's spellbook.
EDIT: aaaaaaaaaaaaand its a necro thread. Its always a shock to find out you're trying to talk to a corpse.
Darn it. I'm only noticing the necro now, as well.
Chilleeeeeeel!
Have you seen the Legacy of Dragons witch archetype Wyrmwitch? Its very nice and comes with a new list of pretty badass patrons. It also trades your familiar out for a small treasure hoard and has a new mechanic for adding spells to your list from a wizard's spellbook.
The important part is that it comes with a free Bonded Item effect. Which is always a very good thing for a prepared caster.
I don't see what would make those patrons "badass", though.