rule wise i really dont think you can pick extra channel and designate it for LoH. But the rest of the build seems ok rule wise.
My biggest problem with it, is that there is no tanking mechanic in pathfinder. So if your char has a bunch of ac using full defence and heals, why should the enemy focus you? especially since they apparently have 2 rogues trying to backstab them at the same time. Now if you play with a very lenient GM, that will let all the monsters hit the "tank" instead of focussing on the guys trying to kill them, i think this build can barely be ok, if not i wouldnt play it at all.
If you really want a defence based char, i would opt for a sword and board fighter, specialising in two wp fighting by shield bashing. Then you could go the dwarven defender route if you want, for the iconic tank. The big upside with shield bash, is that if you take greater bull rush your shield bashing bull rushes will provoke aoo to your friends, thats a very nice thing to do, esp. with a heavy melee group.
First I really like the Lay on hands ability (swift every round on self) but can I use it with a mithril heavy shield or should I go with some kind of buckler?
go with a medium shield
Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
one of the staff said that the old "pass the sword into the other hand , cast, and pass it back' trick worked.
My general progression is to start with well rounded stats (any given campain) with constitution and charisma at the higher end (14+ each). I take dodge and shield focus at first (human) and Goad at third (complete adventurer). I then would try to go for Holy Vindicator to get the vindicator's shield and spend the rest of my carreer as a paladin taking extra channel for lay on hands.
-trying to heal your way out of damage is going to become harder and harder as you level and foes start whalloping you for more than you can heal. A reasonable offense is a good defense.
While Extra Channel does not effectively increase your LoHs number per day (That's what the feat Extra LoH is for :) ), it does give you two free channel energies ASIDE of your LoH pool per day. A paladin is not only a defender or striker, but also a decent healer with the right feats.
My biggest problem with it, is that there is no tanking mechanic in pathfinder. So if your char has a bunch of ac using full defence and heals, why should the enemy focus you? especially since they apparently have 2 rogues trying to backstab them at the same time. Now if you play with a very lenient GM, that will let all the monsters hit the "tank" instead of focussing on the guys trying to kill them, i think this build can barely be ok, if not i wouldnt play it at all.
Check out the spells "challenge evil" and "knight's calling" in the APG. Both of them force an enemy to attack you. Challenge evil lasts for 1 minute/level.
Also, you can take one level of Cavalier (also in the APG), which gives you the ability to issue a challenge once/day as a swift action. Cavalier/Paladin at least thematically seems like a good combination-- I haven't actually played one yet. If you don't want to be a mounted character, an argument can be made that your Cavalier's mount could be a dog, and then you can use it as more of an animal companion.
i have to say i wasnt aware that they made "tanking" spells. so i guess that would make the build mostly viable.
I would personally pick the fighter and shield bash, but the argument for that is removed from what the OP said. so thats gonna be another discussion in another post.
Personally I like to stack the paladin with levels in the "stalwart defender" prestige class from the APG. When you want to move just drop the defensive stance, hands yourself to apply the mercy that removes fatigue and move.
Also I really like the feat "Osyluth Guile" if you have a reasonably high charisma. When used with a stalwart defenders defensive power "halting blow" Melee combatants are forced to focus on things they can reach. All you have to do is fight defensively.
With an 18 charisma and 3 ranks in acrobatics, when you fight defensively with "Osyluth Guile" you get a combined +7 dodge bonus to your AC against one target, +3 against all others, and since its a dodge bonus it will also apply to your CMD.
|
First I really like the Lay on hands ability (swift every round on self) but can I use it with a mithril heavy shield or should I go with some kind of buckler?
go with a medium shield
Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
one of the staff said that the old "pass the sword into the other hand , cast, and pass it back' trick worked.
The OP mentioned a Mithril Heavy shield, would this not mean its characteristics would be that of a lighter shield whilst still giving a Heavy Shield bonus and also bash damage? (In other words you could LoH the same way you would with a light shield whilst having the full benefits of Heavy)
Also, you would have to check with the DM, but arguably even with a normal Heavy Shield you can LoH yourself (though not others)whilst the ability is called 'Lay on Hands' you would find most DMs would allow you to self heal without the need to actually start touching yourself - which as stated by someone else 'Is just wierd'
|
The OP mentioned a Mithril Heavy shield, would this not mean its characteristics would be that of a lighter shield whilst still giving a Heavy Shield bonus and also bash damage? (In other words you could LoH the same way you would with a light shield whilst having the full benefits of Heavy)
Mithral doesn't say anything about doing that. A heavy shield is described as having a grip incompatible with holding anything else. The material its made out of wouldn't change that.
Also, you would have to check with the DM, but arguably even with a normal Heavy Shield you can LoH yourself (though not others)whilst the ability is called 'Lay on Hands' you would find most DMs would allow you to self heal without the need to actually start touching yourself - which as stated by someone else 'Is just wierd'
That's a GM discretion thing that I don't even know where I fall, though I lean towards needing to actually have a free hand. However, my GM doesn't think it's necessary. So that's pretty clearly a maybe.
Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.
The OP mentioned a Mithril Heavy shield, would this not mean its characteristics would be that of a lighter shield whilst still giving a Heavy Shield bonus and also bash damage? (In other words you could LoH the same way you would with a light shield whilst having the full benefits of Heavy)
Nope
to the best of my knowledge There is no statement that says that making a shield out of mithril lowers it to the next small size (tower medium small buckler) for the purposes of being used.
Secondly, armor in pathfinder is specifically mentioned as not doing that when made of mitrhil.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor .
|
|
The OP mentioned a Mithril Heavy shield, would this not mean its characteristics would be that of a lighter shield whilst still giving a Heavy Shield bonus and also bash damage? (In other words you could LoH the same way you would with a light shield whilst having the full benefits of Heavy)Nope
to the best of my knowledge There is no statement that says that making a shield out of mithril lowers it to the next small size (tower medium small buckler) for the purposes of being used.
Secondly, armor in pathfinder is specifically mentioned as not doing that when made of mitrhil.
Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor .
While it is still treated as 'Heavy armor' in terms of proficiency, heavy armour is treated as one category lighter than normal for the purpose of movement and [b]limitations[\b].
This suggests to me that a Heavy Shield would still require the Heavy Shield proficiency just the same as armor does, but again, like armor it is one category lighter (therefore likely the weight of a light shield)and its limitations would also be that of a light shield (in terms of spell failure, skill checks and also one would assume, the way in which you wield it) one would also assume for the purpose of TWF it would be considered a light weapon rather than one handed.
That was my take on it any way. As far as I am aware the rules do not contradict this, and if anything the explaination under armour somewhat supports it.
Apologies in advance if this message ends up spawning 3 or 4 posts, I am attempting to reply at work and jusdging by my previous post it does not like this site. If it spams again I will hold of talking on forums until I am home
|
|
Apologies for a follow up post so soon, but in terms of game description, the equipment page states:
Shield, Heavy; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A heavy shield is so heavy that you can't use your shield hand for anything else.
Shield, Light; Wooden or Steel: You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.
Both are worn the same way, but due to the weight of the Heavy Shield you cannot use your hand for anything else. Therefore a Mithril shield, (which as stated earlier, Mithril armors in terms of movement and limitations is considered one category lighter) would be weighing that of a light shield (we are not talking about mithril making a shield the next small size, it is purely a weight issue).
I would say that by the rules regarding mithril armors and by the description of the light and heavy shields, it is perfectly acceptable to assume a Mithril 'Heavy' Shield would be considered a light weapon and allow the freedom of your hand for LoH in the same way a normal light shield does.
The OP mentioned a Mithril Heavy shield, would this not mean its characteristics would be that of a lighter shield whilst still giving a Heavy Shield bonus and also bash damage? (In other words you could LoH the same way you would with a light shield whilst having the full benefits of Heavy)
by raw no. there's no mention of shields gaining any benefit from mithral besides reduced weight and being able to bash werewolves. the quoted section is for armor.
It would be a reasonable interpretation for a DM to make though.
on the other hand, a mithral heavy shield isn't that much lighter than a wooden one.
|
|
Ah, the complexities of Shield use. I had assumed that the armor quote would be a similar thing for a shield. Assuming a Wooden Shield is the lightest a Heavy Shield can be, a Mithril Shield would therefore qualify as a Light Shield, on the other hand if a Steel Light Shield is the heaviest a Light Shield can be you have a few mystery lbs in the middle which qualify as neither. So it really is up to DM interpretation I guess.
Personally I would treat a Mithril Shield with the same mechanics as Mithril armor, but there does not seem to be a definate answer.
For some reason, I thought the Cavalier's challenge made the enemy attack the Cavalier. I guess I was thinking of the challenge abilities that the 3.5 Knight has. Knights can make all enemies within 100' attack him or her, or something like that.
Smite Evil alone is sometimes enough to get an enemy to focus on a paladin. When an enemy relies on its DR and high AC for defense, and the paladin is the only one plowing through the DR and has enough attack bonus from smite evil to hit reliabily, those evil guys will pay attention to the paladin.
I ran a campaign with a shield bashing paladin. When she was smiting evil she was by far the biggest threat to the bad guys. Sometimes the only threat.
Against a bunch of lower level mooks its not enough to keep them focused on the paladin. But against the big bad guys the Paladin's smite evil is plenty to keep them focused on you...especially if shield bashing and getting the extra damage from the smties on your shield bashes.
|
|
Tanking is tough, but the new pally spells help. Ironically the best tanking pallies are high str high damage output. ... opponents can't ignore them. I've seen a lot of builds of fighters and pales just built on having high AC, and it literally takes nice GMs to get them to do anything, monsters can just ignore them and get to threats unless there is a handy hallway for them to glut.
I'd go high hp lots of str decent AC. For 20 points, if you are not an anti-dump stat person:
Str: 19
Int: 7
Wis: 7
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Chr: 16
(if you are str 18 chr 14 10 to int and wis)
I'd recommend good old Greatsword/Falchion, but Shieldbash builds can be good at low levels.
I might get flak for this, but there is a mechanic for this in Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords. Its a Tactical Feat called "Faith Unswerving", I'll quote the relevant bit:
Faith Unswerving - Take one for the team:
To use this option you must hit an opponent with a melee attack. At any time before the start of your next turn, you can take an immediate action to block a melee attack made by that opponent if he targets one of your allies. You must be adjacent to the ally to use this ability, and you must decide to use this ability before you know the result of the attack roll. If the attack hits your ally, roll 1do20 and add your AC to the result. If the result of this roll is greater than the opponent's attack, he hits you instead, even if the attack roll would normally not be high enough to hit you.
I'm using it on an allied NPC in my campaign right now, but I make him add his CMB instead of AC. Just remember to note that if you use a swift to LoH you can't use this ability afterward because you can't take an immediate and a swift action in the same round.
You may wish to consider Stand Still, if you have the dex to meet the prereqs. It doesn't make you impassable, but it does help. Combined with Step Up, you can really make opponents crawl.
Also the afore mentioned spells, but no need to beat an undead horse.
Another option to deal with the LoH issue, janky as it is, is to have your weapon be a hand weapon or unarmed strike. A single multiclass level in Monk would only net you Stunning Fist, Unarmed Strike, and a monk bonus feat, but it does mean that you'll always have a free hand for spellcasting/LoH.