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Currently playing a Rogue that keeps getting shoved into the front lines, and unsurprisingly I'm getting beaten like Whitney Houston.
Given that odds are I'm going to remain on the front lines, what should I be doing to bump up my defensive abilities?
I *was* a delving Rogue (perception and DD way up), so any sacrifice of offensive abilities would be acceptable.
Currently playing a Rogue that keeps getting shoved into the front lines, and unsurprisingly I'm getting beaten like Whitney Houston.
Given that odds are I'm going to remain on the front lines, what should I be doing to bump up my defensive abilities?
I *was* a delving Rogue (perception and DD way up), so any sacrifice of offensive abilities would be acceptable.
Are you up front alone, and if so why? What level are you, and what are the other people playing?
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Lapdog (Source: Ultimate Character Concepts)
Benefits: Rather than learning how to be unnoticed, the lapdog learns to look beneath notice. During combat, no one will target the lapdog with an attack until he shows he is part of it. He can move around the battlefield unhindered, suffering no attacks of opportunity even if crossing threatened areas. The moment that he does anything that would negate his image as a worthless piece of flesh, like attacking, casting a spell, or helping an ally in any way, even pulling a fallen friend away from combat, the lapdog becomes fair game and anyone may attack him. Note that walking around with a drawn weapon also marks him as a combatant and cancels this ability.
Penalties: The same pathetic appearance that helps the lapdog walk around in the battlefield proves detrimental to him when he interacts with others. He suffers a -2 penalty to all Charisma based skill checks except Bluff; Intimidate cannot be used untrained by a lapdog. If the lapdog is a spellcaster, the DCs for all Enchantment and mind-affecting spells are reduced by 2. Bards are also punished in their bardic music abilities, with the effects of their song lingering only three rounds after he stops singing. Whenever he gains a level, the lapdog can learn to stand tall and proud, leaving his servile ways behind and losing the penalties, but also losing the benefit to remain unnoticed in battle.
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Are you up front alone, and if so why? What level are you, and what are the other people playing?
Ok, a bit more info. It's my PFS character, currently lv6 with about 5k in the bank, and due to unforseen circumstances he often gets paired with lower level characters and/or ranged back row combatants.
I find myself most often paired with, archers, bards, non-melee druids, and wussy clerics.
Are you up front alone, and if so why? What level are you, and what are the other people playing?Ok, a bit more info. It's my PFS character, currently lv6 with about 5k in the bank, and due to unforseen circumstances he often gets paired with lower level characters and/or ranged back row combatants.
I find myself most often paired with, archers, bards, non-melee druids, and wussy clerics.
Sorry to hear that. I would ask the casters to summon. I would also try to selectively game with certain players. I would tell them you want more support up front or you will sit in the back with them.
Your AC won't get really high because you are restricted to light armor. PFS is very restrictive from what I understand with magical gear so it is hard to go that route. You may have to multiclass into a fighter for the AC.
Preplan purchases.
Buying a lot of small bonuses to AC is cheaper than one big purchase.
PS:How much of a change are you willing to make?
Shields might be a good solution for you. As a rogue you'll even have the possibility of having enough feats to do two weapon fighting with a shield. If not a masterwork buckler has no ACP and can give up to a +6 to AC (with magic and no feat investment).
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Shields might be a good solution for you. As a rogue you'll even have the possibility of having enough feats to do two weapon fighting with a shield. If not a masterwork buckler has no ACP and can give up to a +6 to AC (with magic and no feat investment).
Had this problem for a couple months so I'm not sure this is going to change anytime soon.
Currently looking at 26 AC 4 fort 11 ref and 5 will and 24 cmd
AC: +1 m chainshirt 5, dex 5, I stone 1, +1 shield 2, amulent nat armor 1, prot ring 1, dodge 1
saves: cloak resist 1
CMD: I stone (in wayfinder) 2
Does CE stack with fighting defensively? I'll probably do it anyway, but I never looked into that before.Combat Expertise might be good. I have seen some very high ACs due to that feat.
You will definitely want some potions of protection from evil. Cheap, and good against mind control.
Taking a level of Fighter and TWF with a shield is a good option. Fighter will get you access to heavier armor, and you are about where you could get Mithral, if the ACP is too frightening.
Beyond that, coercing the casters into summoning and doing their job is the only other serious option for PFS beyond picking your team before playing.
Im happy with my capabilities in a toe to toe, check profile... I enjoy it :)
Dodge bonuses stack with each other.
You should be able to use both CE and fighting defensively at the same time.
If you're small size then there's a feat in the APG that would help you out, letting you hide while next to an ally.
In my experience, the best way to tank as a rogue is to either hide or be displaced or blinked. Try and get an arcane caster you regularly play with to displace you so you can always hide if you start getting beat down, and 50% miss chance is going to help quite a lot with being able to take hits, albeit, not actually taking them.
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Ok my build so far:
CG human rogue
Str 10
Dex 21 (+2 racial, +1 level, +2 belt)
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 8
Combat and defenses
Init 11 (5 Dex, 4 Imp Init, 2 Trait)
+1 Mithril Rapier +11 hit (4 BAB 5 Finesse 1 Focus 1 Enhancement), d6+1 Dmg
Cestus +9 hit d4 Dmg
AC 26 (+1 m chain shirt 5, Dex 5, I stone 1, +1 shield 2, amulet nat armor 1, prot ring 1, dodge 1)
Fort 4 (2 Base, 1 Con, 1 Resist)
Ref 11 (5 Base, 5 Dex, 1 Resist)
Will 5 (2 Base, 2 Wis, 1 Resist)
Acrobatics 14 ( Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Bluff 8 (-1 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Climb 11 (0 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class, 2 Misc)
Diplomancy 8 (-1 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Disable Device 19 (5 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class, 5 Misc)
Escape Artist 14 (5 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Perception 16 (2 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class, 5 Misc)
Trapfinding 23 (2 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class, 12 Misc)
Sense Motive (2 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Slieght of Hand (5 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Stealth (5 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
UMD (-1 Ability 6 Ranks, 3 Class)
Traits Talents and Feats
Reactionary +2 Init
Indomitable +1 Will saves vs Enchantments
Resiliency
Canny observer
Weapon finesse
Weapon focus (rapier)
Nimble moves
Dodge
Improved initiative
Magic items
+1 Mithril rapier
+1 Mithril chain shirt
+1 Darkwood light shield
+1 Amulet of natural armor
Dusty rose prism Ioun stone
+1 Ring of protection
+2 Belt of dexterity
+1 Cloak of resistance
Wand of cure light wounds (30 charges remain)
Everburning torch
Handy Haversack
Lens of Detection
Mundade gear
Climber's Kit
Healer's Kit
Masterwork thieves tools
Traveler's outfit (allows easy access for the TSA)
Cold iron rapier
100 feet of silken rope
Will be grabbing +2 headband Int (Know: Local) and Goggles of minute seeing so I can watch the time pass.
Oh my god is that a 26 AC?
What in the hell is hitting you?
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Oh my god is that a 26 AC?
What in the hell is hitting you?
Well, I was recently killed by a ghoul (Thank you PFS insurance!), and a mummy tried to get all TSA with me last weekend.
The mummy hit me while fighting defensively (AC 32) and I only saved myself by rolling a natural 20 or I'd be dead *again*.
Something to consider (5 Fighter/5 Rogue/10 Duelist - not necessarily in that order):
5 levels in Fighter, preferably the Free Hand Fighter archetype from the APG. If you go all the way to 5 in that Fighter archetype you will get: +1 to Disarm CMB/CMD as well as +1 to Bluff for Feint and creating distractions to hide; +1 Dodge bonus to AC when wearing Light or no armor; and +1 to attack and damage rolls when wielding a weapon in one hand while the other hand is free. Levels in Fighter will also give you some other obvious bonuses: Higher Fort save, Higher BAB, and access to better armor, for this build I would recommend Mithril Breastplate.
5 levels in Rogue. If it's not too late I would recommend taking a look at the Rake and Scout archetypes for this build. The Rake's Bravado Blade ability can be used in conjunction with the Shatter Defenses feat to get Sneak Attack; and you will get +1 to Bluff and Diplomacy. The Scout gives you two abilities that will go very nicely with the eventual build. Any time you Charge or move more than 10' in a round you get to apply Sneak Attack damage to your attack.
10 levels of Duelist. You get full BAB, as well as several other things that will add to your combat ability. The Duelist gets several things that will combine well with your Scout abilities and the single handed Rapier style from the Fighter archetype. You will also get Precise Strike which allows you to add your Duelist level to attack damage.
I would recommend the Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack tree. The Vital Strike feat tree might come in handy for this build as well but keep in mind it doesn't stack with Spring Attack. With a Rapier you can take the Improved Crit and Crit Focus feats then get some of the debilitating Crit feats. Blinding Crit will give you yet another way to attain Sneak Attack without Flanking or relying on the flat-footed condition. I already mentioned the Shatter Defenses feat tree. And taking Improved Feint might not be a bad investment since you will already be getting +2 to Bluff from this build.
If you can't take the Rake archetype I wouldn't worry about the Shatter Defenses feat tree. But if nothing else I would highly recommend the Spring Attack feat tree as well as feats improving your Critical hits. The capstone ability for Duelist also focuses on Critical strikes.
Are you play with the same group over and over? Talk to them to share the weight of the line. Summon and control spell come to mind.
Attack this problem 2 ways Offence and Defense.
Offence
To Hit, # of Swing and Damage
To Hit Magic Weapon to +2
# of Swing
Haste Spell by your buddies, Two- Weapon Fighting, Combat Reflexes
Two weapon fighting I think is bad Idea do to loss of AC from Shield and – to hit.
Damage
Raise your damage so the fight ends faster. Sound like right now you can do in best shot 4d6+1 or Critical 5d6+2. It 6k to get STR +2 in belt or +2 weapon both raise you damage but weapon also raise to hit as well.
Teamwork Precise strike If get on of the group to go with you on this.
(take as Fighter or Cavalier level) this net +1 BaB + 2 Fort D10 Hit dice Plus Heavy armor Feat. All for a loss of 4 or 6 skill points, not bad trade.
This also suck them up to line with you to help share the load. Plus help make sure you doing 5d6+1 each round. Kill the enemy faster.
(Cavalier level all so give you flank buddy/ spend bump)
You need to throw sneak-attack dice each and every round.
Defense
Hit Points, AC, Saves.
Hit Points
I would look at Toughness or Con Item, raise Hit points Con item Raise Saves as well.
AC
Other that Armor or Combat Expertise I think you are doing well as you can do.
Dex is going to be to high soon you will not get to AC do to Max Dex in Mithral chain is +6.
So no more money in Dex items…. Sound Dum but it true. It not good buy any more for you.
Saves
+1 Cloak of resistance raises it if you can
Shield other spell halve Damage you take plus hit make the cleric burst Stronger
Also give you +1 AC +1 Save but you will get them do to items Ring of Deflection and
+1 Cloak of resistance
What is all boils down to is chooses of how you spend your resources, Gold, Stat, Feats and Levels. All are good for some all wrong for some. You have to figure out what is right for you.