You need Exotic Weapon Proficiency (sawtooth sabre) to treat them as light weapons, though.
I dont' think there is going to be a cut-and-dried answer to this. The sawtooth sabre seems to be rather unique compared to other weapons with regard to the fighter weapon groups.
Except for blades, every weapon falls into a category based on type. i.e. hammers, axes, spears, etc. And these categories encompass light, one-handed, and two-handed weapons. (For instance, the axe category includes both the greataxe and the handaxe.)
But blades is the only one that separates them into two groups, light and heavy. The problem with this is that there is no example weapon that works similar to how the sawtooth does so that we can see how this would work. For instance, the dwarven waraxe falls into the axe category regardless of how 'heavy' it is. Likewise, the bastard sword falls into the heavy blades category since that encompass most one and two-handed swords.
But the sawtooth is treated as both a one-handed and a light blade, so that puts it right on the edge between light and heavy blades.
My gut would say to put it in heavy blades. Since it is normally treated as a one handed longsword, thats where it should go. I don't think the category should change based upon who is wielding the weapon (i.e. whether the weilder has a feat or not.)
The argument can be made that it should be a light blade, since if it is used in the manner that it is intended it would be a light weapon. And that is a valid argument to make.
Personally, as a DM, I would let it fall into either category, whichever is more beneficial to the user. I certainly wouldn't punish someone for purchasing a feat! For instance, say you had a 6th level fighter who DID NOT have EWP: sawtooth sabre, but he had weapon training 1 with heavy blades. He would get the weapon training bonuses for using the sawtooth sabre. And at 7th level he chooses the feat EWP: sawtooth sabres. Does he now LOSE the benefits of weapon training with the weapon he just took the feat for? That would seem rather silly!
So my suggestion would be: treat it as a heavy blade. But if someone has the EWP feat for it, he can ALSO treat it as a light blade for purposes of weapon training. However, he cannot stack the benefits if he has both light and heavy blade weapon training. If he has the feat he can apply whichever weapon training category (light blades or heavy blades) that gives the highest benefit.
It is what you use it as. Without EWP, it's a heavy blade. With EWP, it's a light blade, in your primary and "off" hand.
Well reasoned stuff.
I'm with Father Dale on this. Don't punish players for funky rules exceptions. I think treating it as flexible based on proficiency and which is more advantageous is a fairly elegant way to approach it.
How many hit points does it have? 5 if you don't have EWP and 2 if you do?
Just to make sure I understand this correctly:
If the character has the proficiency, the sawtooth saber is treated a light weapon. If the character does not have proficiency with the weapon, it is treated as a one-handed weapon AND the character suffers the non-proficiency penalty.
Incorrect.
If you don't have EWP then it's a longsword for you -- no penalty. You get the penalty if you try and use it as a light weapon.
If you have the EWP then it's a light weapon for you -- or a one handed which ever you want at that point in time (why would you want it to be one handed? You can two hand fight with a one handed weapon but not with a light weapon).
It's like the bastard sword (kind of) which is martial two handed, but exotic one handed.
In all honesty, you've paid for it with a feat, so why not have it count as whatever you want, light or heavy blade? I'd be happy with that as a DM.
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In all honesty, you've paid for it with a feat, so why not have it count as whatever you want, light or heavy blade? I'd be happy with that as a DM.
Burning the feat is less an issue now - my character is half-elven, so he can take proficiency with a martial or exotic weapon in place of Skill Focus. (APG)
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I honestly don't think there IS an official ruling on this but I would personally put it in Blades, Light category since it is definitely lighter than a normal longsword which in my honest opinion shouldn't be in the heavy blades category in itself.
If you have EWP, then it must be treated as "Blades, Light."
If you are not proficient, then it works like a Longsword and you treat it as "Blades, Heavy."
I'm not aware of any rule that allows you to use whichever weapon category that is most beneficial to you.
Creative Director
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I mentioned in the other thread where this came up that the Sawtooth Sabre should be categorized as a light blade; that's how it's meant to be used, after all, and therefore it should be categorized as how it's meant to be used.
It's a little weird, in other words, that someone who doesn't know how to properly use the weapon should be able to gain a benefit from it using an ability called "weapon training."
Depends on which rulebook you are using:
Inner Sea Primer (or World Guide) - light weapon ONLY for two-weapon fighting penalties
Adventurer's Armory - light weapon with EWP:sawtooth sabre.
Happily, my GM stuck with the Armory version.
I also know that there is a thread with Mr. James Jacobs saying the Armory version is perfectly legit is around somewhere.
Lemme go see if I can finds it.
From the "A Red Mantis Dilemma" thread
And one more thing. If you like how sawtooth sabres used to work—that the exotic weapon proficiency allows you to treat it as a light weapon... do it. Trust me, it won't hurt your game.
I think we over-nerfed weapons (especially exotic weapons) as it stands. But when it comes to rules decisions... those aren't mine alone to make.
That was enough for my GM.
Slight threat necromancy...
How does this thing work with Transformative?