A 10 dex has no bonus +0.
A 9 dex has a -1.
A 12 dex has a +1
You apply the modifier whether it is positive or negative. The passage you quote refers to situations such as flat-footed (surprise, for example). During the surprise round, those with Dexterity bonuses (who are surprised) lose them, reflecting their inability to react quickly, but those without are not any worse (which I don't quite understand-if quick becomes normal, normal should become slow and slow even slower-but that is how it is written).
I am not quite sure about it, but I think that Dexterity penalty applies to AC even when flat-footed - only positive modifier is negated while losing Dexterity bonus due to your conditions.
I am not quite sure about it, but I think that Dexterity penalty applies to AC even when flat-footed - only positive modifier is negated while losing Dexterity bonus due to your conditions.
No dex bonus is applied when flat footed, positive or negative. think of it like this, someone is so clumsy the fall into the weapon that is swinging at them instead of dodging, but when flat footed they aren't given the chance to react. Even if there reaction would leave them worse off.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am not quite sure about it, but I think that Dexterity penalty applies to AC even when flat-footed - only positive modifier is negated while losing Dexterity bonus due to your conditions.No dex bonus is applied when flat footed, positive or negative. think of it like this, someone is so clumsy the fall into the weapon that is swinging at them instead of dodging, but when flat footed they aren't given the chance to react. Even if there reaction would leave them worse off.
Actually, there is no 'negative bonus.' It's interesting and I didn't realize it, but this is actually spelled out explicitly for ability scores in the text (from the PRD, under ability scores, emphasis mine):
Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from –5 to +5. Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells shows the modifier for each score. The modifier is the number you apply to the die roll when your character tries to do something related to that ability. You also use the modifier with some numbers that aren't die rolls. A positive modifier is called a bonus, and a negative modifier is called a penalty.
Under combat, Armor Class, there's this tidbit:
Sometimes you can't use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one). If you can't react to a blow, you can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC. If you don't have a Dexterity bonus, your AC does not change.
Hence, you lose your dexterity bonus when surprised, but you do not lose your dexterity penalty. So, a -1 for a 9 dex means a -1 even if surprised.
This is pretty much how it's always been in D&D, a bad Dex means a low AC, even if you're surprised.
No dex bonus is applied when flat footed, positive or negative.
This is incorrect. Dex bonuses are not applied when flat-footed. If you don't have a dex bonus (that is to say, your dex is 11 or less), then your AC doesn't change from its normal value when you are flat-footed. That means your dex penalty for scores of 9 or lower continues to apply.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
|
"If you don’t have a Dexterity bonus,
your AC does not change."Does this -1 mod apply to the AC or not?
Yes it applies explicitly.
Dex Bonus != Dex Modifier.
If you don't have +1 or greater Dex Modifier, you don't apply it.
If you do have -1 or less Dex Modifier, you still apply it.
You still apply -1 Dex Modifiers when Flat Foot, you just don't apply Dex Bonuses when Flat Foot.
|
In case it wasn't clear enough, since people seem to be confusing it.
Take a character with nothing being worn or affecting them, 7 DEX. They have 8 AC with or without their DEX bonus to AC. Think of it as their Base AC. They're just that clumsy that they make themselves an easier target, even when standing motionless.
They're just that clumsy that they make themselves an easier target, even when standing motionless.
Ah, but if they are intenstionally standing motionless wouldn't that give them an effective Dex of 0, resulting in a base AC of 5?
*runs for cover*
I am not quite sure about it, but I think that Dexterity penalty applies to AC even when flat-footed - only positive modifier is negated while losing Dexterity bonus due to your conditions.No dex bonus is applied when flat footed, positive or negative. think of it like this, someone is so clumsy the fall into the weapon that is swinging at them instead of dodging, but when flat footed they aren't given the chance to react. Even if there reaction would leave them worse off.Actually, there is no 'negative bonus.' It's interesting and I didn't realize it, but this is actually spelled out explicitly for ability scores in the text (from the PRD, under ability scores, emphasis mine):
Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from –5 to +5. Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells shows the modifier for each score. The modifier is the number you apply to the die roll when your character tries to do something related to that ability. You also use the modifier with some numbers that aren't die rolls. A positive modifier is called a bonus, and a negative modifier is called a penalty.
Under combat, Armor Class, there's this tidbit:
Sometimes you can't use your Dexterity bonus (if you have one). If you can't react to a blow, you can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC. If you don't have a Dexterity bonus, your AC does not change.
Hence, you lose your dexterity bonus when surprised, but you do not lose your dexterity penalty. So, a -1 for a 9 dex means a -1 even if surprised.
FALSE...
I just wanted to add that First and Second Edition of DnD never had rules pertaining to bad Dex to AC and Suprised...
I once played a Full Plate Armored fighter with a
STR 9
DEX 6
CON 7
INT 10
WIS 6
CHR 7
Which meant that whenever I was suprised my AC was better...
3rd edition fixed this by making a negative number a penalty that stays with you even when suprised... which amused my friends... because I played a few characters that had low dex scores back in 2nd edition..
FYI.. the above example character I played (stats were like that) was also not available when 3rd edition came out... because your total ability score bonuses have to add up to +1 or more... you have to be somewhat heroic... something else my friends laughed at... (they swear half the rules of 3rd Edition were made because of my character choices and the questions we used to give to Skip Williams to answer)..
3rd edition however caused more problems than it solved from 2nd edition imo... I'm glad to see Pathfinder trying to fix the still somewhat broken system
"Bonus" and "penalty" can be really confusing.
Take this sentence for example:
"At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. "
Attack penalties are normally 6/10, so when you reduce it by negative 1, you actually get 7/11, which is a worse penalty!
That is incorrect. Reducing a penalty means the penalty is smaller. As an example if you have to pay a penalty for a speeding ticket and the penalty is 200 dollars then it is expressed as -200 for you because you are losing 200 dollars. If the penalty is reduced by 50 dollars then you don't pay 200 you pay 150 because -150 is a smaller penalty than -200.
edit:I see what you mean now. I never noticed that -1. It should be a regular 1.