So, long ago, multiclassing used to be the domain of demihumans. That is, humanoid beings that were something besides Human. Among the list was things like Elves being able to be a Fighter/Magic-User or Dwarves being a Fighter/Cleric. Then there was the Halfling which could be a Fighter/Thief.
If an Elf wanted to be a Fighter/Magic-User now they would take the Eldritch Knight prestige class or perhaps the new Magus class that will be coming out. The standard answer for a Figher/Cleric is, well, Cleric. But what about a Fighter/Thief?
I was playing around with the idea in my head and I think you can do a pretty good job just with Fighter and Rogue. So my initial thought is Fighter 12/Rogue 8. Start with Rogue at 1st level, then take a couple levels of Fighter, then a couple of Rogue, then whatever.
I just have the core rules and we play 20 point-buy. I am imagining a Halfling as a nod to AD&D, but I haven't though about ability scores, weapons, feats, skills, etc.
So what do you think? Can you make an effective character this way?
Absolutely. I'm running a similar character concept in the Serpent's Skull AP. Started off w/ rogue, then fighter for a couple levels, then a few rogue, then 2 fighter levels for every one in rogue. I've focused on mobility on the battlefield, TWF and TWD. Human, but that's just my preference. If you can get your hands on the APG, the mobile fighter archetype and the scout archetype for rogues mesh well.
Hmm.....
I would probably flip that idea, and go with Rogue 15/Fighter 5, going pure rogue for the first 5 levels, and then placing fighter levels strategically, due to BAB qualifications.
Since you are going halfling, you are going to want to get as much flanking sneak attack damage to up your damage potential. Finesse more important than power. So 8d6 on each attack is nothing to sneeze at. Whereas rogue 8 with 4d6, needs to concentrate on strength to bring up his plus damage.
With the rogue talents, you can skew your talents to be more combat focused, while still having enough to be "classic rogue"
If you don't mind waiting until 2012 or so, I am sure Ultimate Combat will come out and offer a hybridizing class for fighters and rogues. It is times like these I miss the older system, nostalgia and all. Of course failing your save against the "save or die" really erked me. Not sure why, but I would always die to Ettercap Poison Save. I think the GM just started putting them in, to see how many characters I could write a backstory for, and then could die to a damned Ettercap :(
|
Well martial classes can MC all willy nilly and not have too much of an effect on their effectiveness. So yeah just take fighter x/rogue y and call it a day. In fact with the extra feats with fighter levels, TWF wouldn't be quite so painful...and the rogue levels will help with damage output for a finess TWFer. If you have access to APG I would take 13 levels of fighter with 7 levels of rogue...or 9 level of fighter with 11 of rogue with the TW warrior alt fighter. Level 9 gives you doublestrike that lets you move and hit with each hand once and level 13 lets you do this with AoO. I kinda like the fighter 9/rogue 11 as that is still a respectable 6d6 sneak attack. Adn with gang up, it's quite easy to consistently get at least 12d6 sneak atack a round...even when your not full attacking. Now if I have access to karmic strike and rolibar's gambit (3.5 materials) I would totally do fighter 13/rogue 7 as that is a 16d6 sneak attack AoO(with gang up to make it easier to get the flank) for every attack they do to me. Course that does give me -4 ac, +4 for them to hit me and do damage...but they will go down QUICK with that setup :) .
Races of Destiny or Complete Adventurer, 3.5, added a couple 'multi-classing feats'. One was for Fighter/Theives...your fighter levels counted as Rogue levels for purposes of Sneak Attack. Daring Outlaw, I believe?
There's also the Nightsong Enforcer PrC...full BAB and +4d6 SA. over 10 levels.
==Aelryinth
|
|
Races of Destiny or Complete Adventurer, 3.5, added a couple 'multi-classing feats'. One was for Fighter/Theives...your fighter levels counted as Rogue levels for purposes of Sneak Attack. Daring Outlaw, I believe?
==Aelryinth
Oh yeah the rogue MC feats...also known as never take more then 2 levels of rogue for ANY build instead of just casters feats...yeah take daring outlaw if you can...in which case, do fighter 18/rogue 2. Still recommend the TW warrior alt fighter.
A couple of Ideas:
1) Take a decent INT and go Rogue 2/Fighter X; the INT will help on skills (Acrobatics, Perception, Disable, and ???). Plenty of feats to compliment some low Sneak Attack Damage--too easy to do a Two Weapon Fighter :) Also look to Combat Expert and Trip/Disarm.
2) Look at Duelist: INT helps here, too as it adds to AC!
3) Go straight Rogue. Due to the sweeping changes created by the d20 system, not all rogues are DEX based. :) With the Rogue Talents you will be able to rack up Feat-equivalent abilities and can shine as both a primary melee and skillz-monkey
4) If you are set on a *FIGHTER* then ignore this one: Think about Ranger, or Barbarian to splash in. Ranger gives solid skills, as well as some feats and Favored Enemy. Barb offers higher movement rate and RAGE for ramping up your damage.
The best part of d20 (And especially Pathfinder is the vast open-endedness of the system. Lots of choices and most are good/valid :D
Enjoy your gaming!
GNOME
I love this idea. If you're looking for a true Fighter/Thief combination, and not just "splash rogue" then you've got a couple options. If you're in love with the fighter class, on its own, then I'd recommend doing something like: Rogue 12 / Fighter 8. As a rogue you really want to stay in light armor to keep your abilities relevant. If you're ok with branching out a bit, I'd actually recommend Ranger (Skirmisher) in place of fighter. It has some groovy abilities that mimic some of the rogue tricks, doesn't add magic into the mix (maintains that fighter feel), and will still grant you a few of the TWF feats you need. It also synergizes well with your saves, keeping Reflex high (very rogue-like), and doesn't hinder you on skill points.
Rogue 16/Fighter 4 with the "Daring Outlaw" feat is actually one of my favorite build.
Rogue 16/Fighter 2/Ranger 2 is another good option for more class skills and free TWF.
There is no 3.5 material allowed and I don't have the APG, so I can't use some of the above suggestions.
I am now leaning towards more of a focus on Rogue. Maybe Rogue 11/Fighter 9. This gives me a max BAB of 17, Weapon Training 2 and 6d6 Sneak Attack. I can also take the Opportunist Rogue Talent for an extra attack. Plus his Fighter Armor Training will allow him to wear a mithral breastplate with no minus on his skills or movement at all.
Still trying to come up with a good name. I picture him more as a thug than a slight of hand thief. For example, his idea of slight of hand would be to punch a guy in the groin then cut the guy's purse while he was bent over in pain. Yeah, he fights dirty.
So how is this for stats?
Str: 14 (16-2 racial)
Dex: 16 (14+2 racial)
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 9 (7+2 racial) (He's not very nice)
Add 1 to Str at 4 and 8, then one to Dex at 12 for Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, then the rest Str.
Probably two short swords as his weapons of choice, but he can probably do fairly well as a switch-hitter. Open with a ranged sneak attack on the surprise round, then close and go to town.
There is no 3.5 material allowed and I don't have the APG, so I can't use some of the above suggestions.
I am now leaning towards more of a focus on Rogue. Maybe Rogue 11/Fighter 9. This gives me a max BAB of 17, Weapon Training 2 and 6d6 Sneak Attack. I can also take the Opportunist Rogue Talent for an extra attack. Plus his Fighter Armor Training will allow him to wear a mithral breastplate with no minus on his skills or movement at all.
Keep in mind that Rogue 12 / Fighter 8 has the same BAB that Rogue 11 / Fighter 9 has.
Fighter 9 grants you: +1 average hit point, +1 to attack w/ two weapon groups.
vs. Rogue 12 which grants you: 1 advanced rogue talent, +6 skill points, your favored class bonus (which may negate the fighter HP bonus), and +1 trap sense. Crippling Strike is an excellent rogue talent that seems to fit your build perfectly, especially in combination with Opportunist.
So what do you think? Can you make an effective character this way?
When you say old-school multi-classing, I tend to think of a 50/50 split. I haven't multi-classed in PF, but a friend is doing this very thing in our Kingmaker campaign. The character seems to be progressing just fine, and he is 50/50 (Rogue 3/Fighter 2.)
Yeah, whether to go Rogue12/Fighter8 or Rogue11/Fighter9 is something I won't really have to decide for a while, as that would put him at 20th level. They both have their advantages.
Back in AD&D you split your Experience 50/50 between the two, but that meant you would be a higher level in Thief since Thieves leveled faster, so a couple extra levels in Rogue actually captures the feel pretty well. :-)
As for the First level, taking Fighter first would get me 2 extra hit points, but he is filling the roll of the Rogue, so I kinda wanted to start him off as Rogue. In this case it is a little less effective mechanically, but from a Role Play perspective it works better.
As for his personality, he does need to work with a group. So I decided that he can be nice to those that are nice to him, but if you are even a little rude to him he will escalate it out of all proportion. His fighting style is a little brutal, but it isn't that he enjoys hurting people, they just had it coming to them is what it is. ;-)
Well, it's a different concept from what you've laid out, but if you want a BRUTAL F/T, then a combination of THF (greatsword) with rogue levels (for SA dice and bluff) allows for a character that, with Imp Feint, can get sneak attack damage without flanking/surprise. Add in vital strike tree at higher levels and you can do some massive damage pretty consistently.
"There is no 3.5 material allowed and I don't have the APG, so I can't use some of the above suggestions."
No 3.5 fine.
No APG then Buy one, Beg, Borrow or steal one.
An no you can use mine.
LoL
But these build are all sold.
|
I see you have your heart set out for making a f/r-combo, but seeing that you'd have a build that is destined to get dominated, charmed and held, due to both having to focus on the really important rogue stats of DEX, INT, CON, etc and combining two classes who both feature only one good saving throw, I suggest an alternate plan.
Take a few levels, or all if you are so inclined, in the Student of War prestige class from the Pathfinder Society splatbook Seekers of Secrets. While it was featured in the Society fluff book, the prestige class doesn't require you to have anything to do with Pathfinders as such. Instead, it's a class for intelligent soldiers and scholarly warriors which anyone can take.
Naturally the prequisite feats are an odd bunch, but seeing as you are making a rogue, at least Combat Expertise, being a prequisite for both Improved Feint and Gang Up, will be useful and Dodge is a prequisite for Mobility and eventually Whirlwind Attack.
Anyhow, the class offers a solid bab, a combat stance ability reliant on your knowledge checks, ability to ignore the "saving throw(partial)" clause in many abilities and spells a coupla times every day and enables the Student to use Int instead of Dex for AC. And since it gives you bonus feats and well, it's a good replacement for fighter levels. Not to mention having a good Will save. Full bab and good Will!
It's not a powerhouse like the Nightsong Enforcer however, and you'll always get more out of the PF fighter if you are not worried about saves and trying to build a character who is reliant on Dexterity.
Good luck with the character!
So what do you think? Can you make an effective character this way?
I recommend Human so that you don't need to snag an INT above 12ish to keep up with your primary skills, and the feat helps with TWF (which is the best strategy for a melee Rogue).
If you can get your DM to let you use the Cheliax book, there is a lot of potential opened up with Cornugon Smash (lets you Intimidate any time you hit with a Power Attack) and the Shatter Defenses tree.
I have a post in another Rogue thread regarding something similar:
Human is always a good choice, but I was motivated to make this character because of the old Halfling Fighter/Thief multiclass option, so I want him to be a Halfling.
The will save will certainly be a problem, so Iron Will is going to be almost mandatory, but it shouldn't be much worse than strait Fighter or strait Rogue.
|
Since Pathfinder uses a multiple XP system, one thing I have had in mind is allowing Gestalt Characters with the slow XP while a single class character uses the fast.