And what I mean by unique is one that is not in the book.
There is of course a large chart under magic item creation that gives rules on how to do this. However, I still have some questions.
What I want to do is eventually craft (through Craft Wonderous Item) a magic item that will boost my Spellcraft. There is no existing item in the book I know of that already does this, so this is why it would be unique.
The price seems pretty simple, it would actually be comparable to a "Cloak of Elvenkind". It will most likely be a +5, but I am even debating on +10. But either way, the rules say it is skill bonus squared x 100 GP. So if I went with the +5, it would 2500 GP.
Now that alone seems simple enough. However, what slot do you determine it goes in? I know certain ability bonuses are associated with certain body slots, but what about skills and what would be be best for Spellcraft? I was thinking of putting it on goggles of some kind. Or, would that be the wrong slot?
I am just trying to figure out the slot that would not be out of place as I will most likely only be wearing these goggles when crafting my own magic items.
My next question is, what spell would be associated with this item? In the item Cloak of Elvenkind, Invisibility is used. What spell would you use for Spellcraft, if one is needed?
And my final question, at the bottom of the chart, one of the siddenote numbers (4) indicates continuous items are charges x 100 (which the cloak would be), why isn't that worked into the price? The Cloak of Elvenkind only has the skill bonus squared x 100 worked out for the price (2,500 GP). I ask about the cloak, because again, the goggles I am thinking about are pretty much going to be the same thing, except maybe the spell required (if there is one).
Sorry for the long post.
Ok, thanks for the suggestions. Will be sure not to have my DM talk to you. :) Besides, like I said, I would most likely only be wearing the goggles when I am crafting magic items.
Any idea why though the continuous effect price (x100 charges) was not taken into account with the Cloak of Elvenkind? I mean it is considered continuous, correct? You just put it on and it automatically affects your Stealth?
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Any idea why though the continuous effect price (x100 charges) was not taken into account with the Cloak of Elvenkind? I mean it is considered continuous, correct? You just put it on and it automatically affects your Stealth?
Hobbun, I think the continuous effect is for spell duplication. I'm basing this on the 100 charge pricing.
Knowing you're working on your crafting sorc, I figured crafting was why you wanted it. Were I GM on this, I'd be thinking headband rather than goggles. I think either could be reasonable.
Yep, that is why I am asking, for my crafting Sorcerer. :) And headband works for me, too.
Now do you mean by spell duplication, as the item is effectively casting a spell? Like forging a ring that always has True Strike constantly on?
Since the cloak is not actually ‘casting’ the effects of a spell, it is not considered part of the continuous cost? Am I understanding that right?
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Yep, that is why I am asking, for my crafting Sorcerer. :) And headband works for me, too.
Now do you mean by spell duplication, as the item is effectively casting a spell? Like forging a ring that always has True Strike constantly on?
Since the cloak is not actually ‘casting’ the effects of a spell, it is not considered part of the continuous cost? Am I understanding that right?
Yep. That's my take on it.
If you find a GM that would allow a constant truestrike, however, just stay away from him. :)
There are a few magic items that "require" you to have +X ranks in a skill to craft that item (or take a +5 DC mod to craft it), I would suggest that for skills that don't have a complimentary spell, that you implement that requirement.. something like this: the +mod of the item * 3 = ranks "required". so a +1 skill check needs 3 ranks in a skill to not take a +5 DC to craft. For skills that do have a complimentary spell, just use that... Crafter's Fortune for example could be used for craft and profession checks.
Ouch. 15 ranks for only a +5 to a skill? Seems pretty harsh. I think without the *3 would be plenty.
Now what is Crafter’s Fortune?
If you find a GM that would allow a constant truestrike, however, just stay away from him. :)
Yeah, something my DM would definitely not allow. :) But was just using it as an example.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Disclaimer: The following is based on my own experiences and opinions with regards to crafting magic items.
Now that alone seems simple enough. However, what slot do you determine it goes in? I know certain ability bonuses are associated with certain body slots, but what about skills and what would be be best for Spellcraft? I was thinking of putting it on goggles of some kind. Or, would that be the wrong slot?
In reading over most of the existing magic items, you'll notice that usually what type of item or slot they are used on is based on what they do. For example, a Stealth skill bonus is generally attached to a cloak (i.e. Cloak of Elvenkind) or maybe a pair of boots because a cloak is something to conceal the wearer from sight or quiet their approach in the case of the boats.
Googles would be a fine choice for an item that gives you a bonus to Spellcraft since the skill itself is based off Intelligence and most Int items are worn in a slot on the head (head, headband, neck, eyes). Doubly so as Spellcraft is a skill about the study and identification of magic making it very similar to the usual placement of Perception or Disable Device bonuses on Googles/Glasses. In the end though, anywhere on the head would fit fine.
My next question is, what spell would be associated with this item? In the item Cloak of Elvenkind, Invisibility is used. What spell would you use for Spellcraft, if one is needed?
I would say something from the Divination school at the least. My personal preference would be to use Identify as its a spell that gives you +10 to Spellcraft checks vs Magic Item identification already.
And my final question, at the bottom of the chart, one of the siddenote numbers (4) indicates continuous items are charges x 100 (which the cloak would be), why isn't that worked into the price? The Cloak of Elvenkind only has the skill bonus squared x 100 worked out for the price (2,500 GP). I ask about the cloak, because again, the goggles I am thinking about are pretty much going to be the same thing, except maybe the spell required (if there is one).
Ahh, the eternally tricky question of how much to price an item that doesn't exist currently in any format. If you ever submit an item to the RPG Superstar competition, you're bound to run into it in some form. The sad fact is that there isn't an easy answer to this question. You can look at similar items to get a feel for the level of cost and that generally should work fine in most cases.
For those magic items that don't have another item even close to function, you can use the Magic Item Creation formulas to get a price but it is going to seem steep in some cases for the PC level it is geared toward and you might have to sand it down to a price that matches up with items of similar power level. As the wise pros at Paizo say, "Price caculation is more an art than a science."
Now that alone seems simple enough. However, what slot do you determine it goes in? I know certain ability bonuses are associated with certain body slots, but what about skills and what would be be best for Spellcraft?
Since spellcraft is a kind of arcane knowledge (using the wood arcane in it's BROADEST sense) I would think an item of spellcraft might be appropraite as a head item of some kind, like a circlet or crown.
It could also be appropriate as a held book, like a tome of knowledge, or even as some kind of held or worn scrying device like a magnifying glass or gemmed lenses that allows you to view things through it for their magical properties.
Since your specifically making this item for use in further magical crafting, a set of 'magical creation tools' might also be appropriate. Small hammers, tongs, stylus', measuring compass, orbs, clamps, etc, all subsumed into a 'enchanted crafters kit'.
I would suggest Fox's Cunning for the associated spell. Or you could pay double creation cost and have a slotless item that you could just keep anytwhere on your person that could help you as well. A small 'pocket reference book' that you never actually have to referance would be nice for this.
As for the continuous operation line, that does not apply to this kind of item.
Your not trying to make a magic item, for example, of continuous True Sight. That item would then invoke the continuous operation line, since True Sight has a spell duration with a limited time.
Since there are many skill adding items in the game, you use their pricing guidelines as an example. While a knowledge of a spell is usefull and often necessary to make them, your not EXACTLY duplicating that spell (usually, although as with the True Sight example above you certainly CAN) your using that spells as a magical building block and empower the item with the concept and general power that spell is associatedw with.
Skill enhancing items are clearly delineated, your correlation to Boots and Cloaks of Elvenkind is spot on. Their price is their bonus squared times 100 GP, so half that to actually create, assuming you have the prerequisite magical lab necessary for ANY item crafting.
A +10 Spellcraft 'Enchanting Toolset' would be 5,000 gold to make. Or a slotless, +10 Spellcraft 'Thaumaturgical Pocket Referance' would be 10,000 gold.
It really is irrelevant what YOU'D be using the item for... it's what it CAN be used for that matters. It's also a good reason to note that once you get out of the book that DM's should be wary of using standard formulas for magic items. A item that boots the skill level of jewelcrafting is not going to have the same impact as skill adders of spellcraft, stealth, and diplomacy.
What do you think I would do, sneak it on when my DM is not looking to use it for Spellcraft checks in other instances? If he is that uncomfortable with it, he can have a limitation on it where it is only useful for crafting.
If he is that uncomfortable with it, he can have a limitation on it where it is only useful for crafting.
Or you could build them WITH that limitation and possibly get a reduction on the cost of the item, much like putting in an alingment, class or skill requirement restriction on an item can lower the cost.
Obviously your GM will tell you what the final result will be but this seems an extremely sensible path to take for any character serious about making magic items enough to take the feats.
I know it is the first thing my cleric did when he took Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Items.
I don't think that it is that big of a deal for someone to have to take a total of +5 DC on the craft check of something... but that is between you and your DM to figure out if you don't use a spell, which Identify would work perfectly well for. A 15th lvl character pumping out +5 check items without issue seems fine to me, but that is just me, if you think it is high, use a different formula :) Personally I think a level 5 character making +5 skill items without any sort of penalty for 2,500gp (assuming that is market price, so 1,250 at cost) sounds powerful to me.
For a +5 to an ability bonus or enhancement bonus for a weapon I'd agree with you. But a +5 for a skill bonus, even if it is Spellcraft, I feel it is not unreasonable at all for a 5th level character to have. And that having to have 15 ranks for a +5 skill bonus is overkill.
I know in our prior campaign, or DM was giving out a +10 to Hide (on armor) at around 6th or 7th level and he is the ultra conservative DM on making everything is balanced and not too much power.
Crafter's Fortune is a spell in the APG that gives a + modifier to your next craft check. I don't have the APG in front of me atm, so I might have mis-remembered the name :)
Ok, I think I remember it now. Due to being a Sorcerer, it's not really a spell slot I can afford.
Thanks for your suggestions.
If he is that uncomfortable with it, he can have a limitation on it where it is only useful for crafting.Or you could build them WITH that limitation and possibly get a reduction on the cost of the item, much like putting in an alingment, class or skill requirement restriction on an item can lower the cost.
Obviously your GM will tell you what the final result will be but this seems an extremely sensible path to take for any character serious about making magic items enough to take the feats.
I know it is the first thing my cleric did when he took Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Items.
Yes, I was actually thinking about that, as well. In putting the limitation on the item to lower the price.
I don't see what the price difference is on the chart, do you know where the rule is for that? On what difference the price is for magic item limitations?
I will say, I do like your idea of the +5 (or +10) crafting set of tools.
Although I protest as for crafters of standard items, they only need to pay for masterwork artisian tools. :)
Those craft rules are really guidelines. If you apply the continuous version of a true strike spell to a weapon you can get a +20 modifier rather cheaply, as an example.
I would say something from the Divination school at the least. My personal preference would be to use Identify as its a spell that gives you +10 to Spellcraft checks vs Magic Item identification already.
I agree, and I am pretty sure my DM would as well.
Ahh, the eternally tricky question of how much to price an item that doesn't exist currently in any format. If you ever submit an item to the RPG Superstar competition, you're bound to run into it in some form. The sad fact is that there isn't an easy answer to this question. You can look at similar items to get a feel for the level of cost and that generally should work fine in most cases.
For those magic items that don't have another item even close to function, you can use the Magic Item Creation formulas to get a price but it is going to seem steep in some cases for the PC level it is geared toward and you might have to sand it down to a price that matches up with items of similar power level. As the wise pros at Paizo say, "Price caculation is more an art than a science."
Well, as even a couple of other posters indicated, the x100 charges would not apply in this situation, and now I see why. The Goggles of Spellcraft would not be exhibiting any kind of spell so therefore that aspect of charges would not come into play.
One last thing I didn't take into account, but what CL would I set the item at? Is the CL determined by the spell attached with it? So in this case if I went with Identify, would it be only a CL 1 item? Or does it not work that way?
Well, I actually allow such an item in my games, and have never noticed any problems with it.
I went with the straight cost from the chart (using Cloak of Elvenkind as a template), but with a few caveats: must be consulted (so no "In-Combat" uses), must be held or easily referenced (takes up one hand in most cases or on an immovable display). Prereqs: creator must have 5 ranks in Spellcraft, Identify, Craft Wondrous Items.
Aid Another and a few gold can get as high, if not higher a bonus, so I don't really see the problem.
My gut feeling is that certains simply should not exist.
Spellcraft adders are close to the top of that list...even if limited to crafting.. Magic item crafting is way too damm easy as it is. Magic item crafting while ignoring prequisites which this item has just the right bonus is even more sick... the one major problem I have with Pathfinder and one of the particularly banned abilities in PFS.
It has been said more than once that crafing magic items is supposed to be easy.
The balancing factor on crafting is the time and money spent, not the difficulty in making an item. Sure, if you are trying to make an item well above your level, then you deserve what you get in making that DC difficult.
But for items around your level, they should be almost auto-make.
And I am sure the developers had done it that way due to the huge expenses in making items and that you only get 'one' roll to craft it. Where in crafting standard items, it can be several rolls, and the possibility to lose partial funds.
Where the funds may not hit you so bad at low levels, but could you imagine making that +5 weapon and failing your roll? Oh, there goes 25,000. That's even a lot of cash for high level character (At least in our campaigns). And the response of "Well, that's the risk of being a crafter" isn't going to go over too well and just frustrate the player.
I agree with you, Magic Item creation certainly has it's issues, but having a low DC is not one of them.
Well, I actually allow such an item in my games, and have never noticed any problems with it.
I went with the straight cost from the chart (using Cloak of Elvenkind as a template), but with a few caveats: must be consulted (so no "In-Combat" uses), must be held or easily referenced (takes up one hand in most cases or on an immovable display). Prereqs: creator must have 5 ranks in Spellcraft, Identify, Craft Wondrous Items.
I think that sounds completely fair on the prereqs. Now did you set the CL at 5 due to the 5 ranks needed?
I think that sounds completely fair on the prereqs. Now did you set the CL at 5 due to the 5 ranks needed?
Yup. Also made the skill ranks "hardcoded," i.e., can't be avoided by raising the Craft DC. This makes it 5th level to make one, and 5th level to really afford to buy one. I liked the symmetry.
Title- Eldritch Wizardry: A Study in Formulae and Foci
(Informal Titles: "The Big Book of Spellcraft" or "Spellcraft for Dummies")
I should also add that I've tried to include non-magical skill boosting items for just about every skill as well (harder than it sounds), but limited to +1/+2, of course).
Ok, thanks. I think it does make sense.
But I still would like to know what the RAW is for assigning a CL for a unique item? As I said, in the book, it looks like it goes off the level of the spell(s) used. But would like to know what the official ruling is on it, is.
Could someone please point me in the area of the book where it says the rules on setting the CL for a unique Wonderous item?
The closest I have seen is this:
For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of an item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell but not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself. In this case, the creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level (and prerequisites may effectively put a higher minimum on the creator's level).
But this is obviously referring to existing magic items out of the books. I cannot take the CL of an item if I don't have it, yet.
Has anyone seen the rules on this?
Ok, I was thinking that.
It's just kind of funny that the book does go into good detail on figuring a price for crafting a unique magic item (with the chart) but it leaves off any rules for probably one of the most important parts, in that being how to determine the CL for the item, as it also determines the DC.
Thank you.
I know it is the first thing my cleric did when he took Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Items.
I'm just curious, what items did you build for your cleric? It sounds like you built an item to help Craft Magic Arms and Armor and another one to help Craft Wonderous Items. What limitation was put on each of these items? And finally, what did your DM decide on what the reduced cost would be (due to the limitations)?
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Ok, I was thinking that.
It's just kind of funny that the book does go into good detail on figuring a price for crafting a unique magic item (with the chart) but it leaves off any rules for probably one of the most important parts, in that being how to determine the CL for the item, as it also determines the DC.
Hobbun, in 3.5, the CL is determined by the caster. When he creates the item, he decides within the limits of his own CL and what is necessary for the creation of the item itself. Sometimes this results in a price adjustment, sometimes not.
For other magic items, the
caster level is determined by the creator. The minimum caster
level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given.
It replaces the statement about the CL being set by the item.
I've mentioned elsewhere that the CL-based spellcraft check is tacked on to another sytem. What you're experiencing is exactly that. I strongly support the use of the 3.5 errata to solve your concerns; Edit: it is consistent with the FAQ on establishing CL, which is otherwise unresolved in the Core Rulebook.
I agree with you completely. I would much rather have the CL of the item determined by the level of the caster, for ALL items. Not sure why PF made that distinction for only potions, scrolls and wands.
Besides the fact it makes it more simple, it also prevents a high level caster having to craft an item with a low CL and therefore having a bad saving throw against Dispel Magic.
I think I will just bring that recommendation up to my DM, he'll probably go along with it.
Now the question is, in what way would crafting Wonderous Items at a higher CL (than out of the book) affect the price? For wands, scrolls and potions, it is easy as the level of the caster is worked into the formula. But would you adjust the price of the Wonderous Item if the CL is higher than out of the book?
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I agree with you completely. I would much rather have the CL of the item determined by the level of the caster, for ALL items. Not sure why PF made that distinction for only potions, scrolls and wands.
This has been answered repeatedly: This is an error that goes all the way back to 3e. It was repeated in 3.5. It was repeated again in PF. Unfortunately, while 3.5 errata resolved it, the PF errata does not. Instead, you have to go to the FAQ about PoP CL; unfortunately, this effectively has the FAQ creating rules text, which the community generally frowns upon.
Now the question is, in what way would crafting Wonderous Items at a higher CL (than out of the book) affect the price? For wands, scrolls and potions, it is easy as the level of the caster is worked into the formula. But would you adjust the price of the Wonderous Item if the CL is higher than out of the book?
If the item doesn't have a spell effect that is based on CL, by the table it has no price difference. This makes no economic sense regarding the sales price, but the entire system makes no economic sense, so I wouldn't worry about it. If the item does have an effect that is CL dependent, the rule is in the table. If the item has a CL effect that is other than the spell effect, you and your GM would need to work it out; this iw why RPGs have GMs. SRK has provided his input in another thread (you were part of that thread).
This has been answered repeatedly: This is an error that goes all the way back to 3e. It was repeated in 3.5. It was repeated again in PF. Unfortunately, while 3.5 errata resolved it, the PF errata does not. Instead, you have to go to the FAQ about PoP CL; unfortunately, this effectively has the FAQ creating rules text, which the community generally frowns upon.
Ok, I do remember the PoP FAQ, I don't remember it dealing specifically with the rule change in items (besides scrolls, potions and wands) not using the item's CL. I will look at it again. But you would think by the 4th printing this would be fixed now where it no longer says the CL is based off the item, but the creator.
As for this being answered repeatedly, I am sorry, if I knew about the other ones, I would not have asked.
If the item has a CL effect that is other than the spell effect, you and your GM would need to work it out; this iw why RPGs have GMs. SRK has provided his input in another thread (you were part of that thread).
I've never agreed with "since it isn't clear in the rules, that's why there is a DM". Yes, that is obviously what needs to be done, the DM will have to hammer it out. But I easily could say, "that is why there is a Core Rulebook". As that is where it should have been in the first place.
Yes, I believe I remember now the thread you are referring to. But it was awhile back so I could not remember the specifics on it, I will take a look at it again.
Thank you for your help.
Well yes, obviously. That is the case for 'anything' in the book.
DM: "I don't like that you get a stat bonus every four levels" or "This class has too powerful of a increase, I am going to take this ability out" or "I don't like how this skill works, it now works 'this' way." And so on.
So yes, I understand the DM makes the final decisions. That is not something that needs to be pointed out to me. But I don't see my DM having an issue with making this kind of item.
It's just kind of funny that the book does go into good detail on figuring a price for crafting a unique magic item (with the chart) but it leaves off any rules for probably one of the most important parts, in that being how to determine the CL for the item, as it also determines the DC.
That was definitely an oversight. Personally, I'm hoping that Ultimate Magic will include some additional guidance on item creation.
If it helps any, here's how I do it:
1. If the spell/effect involved doesn't get any better at higher levels, then the minimum CL needed to cast the spell associated with the effect is the minimum needed for the item.
Example: Cloak of the Traveler (Continuous Endure Elements). There's no benefit for a higher CL (other than in re dispelling), so a minimum of CL1, max Crafter's CL (if they want to pay for it). I should also note that I generally reduce the cost of items that are not directly combat related by up to half. This item, by the chart, should have a market price of 2K gold, but I price it at 1K instead.
2. If the item's effect causes a save of some kind, then the CL is the minimum to cast the spell (but the crafter can, again, set higher and pay more), but the DC is set at 10+spell level.
Example: Mask of Unendurable Beauty (Blindness 1/day). Minimum CL3, DC 12.
3. If the item's effect has a limited duration, then the minimum CL is that which is required to meet that duration.
Example: Trickster's Ring (Vanish 5/day, duration 4 rounds). CL is 4.
4. If the item does a certain amount of damage, then the minimum CL is equal to the CL needed to do that amount of damage with the relevant spell.
Example: Hellhound Skin Gloves (Burning Hands 2/day, 5d4 fire damage, line instead of cone). Minimum CL 5, DC 11
Note: Up to this point, I treat the creator's CL as the max CL for the item. A 3rd level caster, for example, could only make an pair of Hellhound Skin Gloves that does 3d4 damage. The same character making a Trickster's Ring, could only set the duration at 3 rounds, etc.
5. If the the item is loosely related to a spell requirement, and doesn't fall into any of the above categories, then the minimum CL for craftingis equal to the CL required to cast the needed spell. The creator can set the CL at his/her CL or lower, but this does not affect the price.
Example: Handy Haversack. HH requires a 5th level spell and therefore has a CL of 9 for crafting. The crafter can set the final CL lower, but the price, and the difficulty to create, is the same, regardless.
*****
Please note that these represent my best attempt at interpreting the rules for crafting. Some or all of them may be directly contradicted by current or future official rulings/interpretations. Not pretending to be an expert. Just explaining how I do things.
Hope this helps.
Well yes, obviously. That is the case for 'anything' in the book.
Not quite.
That chart is FOR the DM to help them PRICE items that they decide to make.
It is not a chart for players to craft items from..
There's a difference there,
James
Why are you making such a big issue about it that it's for the DM compared to the player?
To be honest, I don't see any indication in the book it is exclusively for the DM to make reference to and not the player.
Of course I am not going to tell my DM he 'has' to abide by this chart for any unique items that are made (if any are created at all).
But again, that is just like anything else in the book. Whether it be rules on crafting non-magical items or how a feat works. The DM can change anything he wants, just like he can change how unique items are created.
But as that chart is all we have RAW on prices for crafting unique items, I know my DM would most likely go by it.
To Jake:
Thanks for the detailed post. But in the instances that the item is more powerful at higher levels, what formula do you use in figuring out the cost?
Again, I am not talking about scrolls, wands or potions as they already have their own formula for higher caster level costs.
To Jake:
Thanks for the detailed post. But in the instances that the item is more powerful at higher levels, what formula do you use in figuring out the cost?
Again, I am not talking about scrolls, wands or potions as they already have their own formula for higher caster level costs.
Unfortunately, that's a great, big "It Depends." Unique Wondrous Items are like the ink blot test of DMs. 5 DMs will give 6 opinions, and everyone will be right.
I'd have to know more about the item in question in order to be of much help.
James, did I ever say these were hardfast rules that the DM was forced to follow? That I was going to go to my DM and say “This is the rules for making magic items, you have to go by it.” ?
You can call them guidelines, but they are still rules on what PF feels what Paizo (or I believe taken from Wizards chart) may be best in making unique magic items.
I agree, it’s not something the DM ‘has’ to follow. But he doesn’t have to follow anything in the book, he’s the DM.
Now can we just drop it already? It’s already gotten off-topic.
You keep attacking this. We can drop it if you want, but it is not the same thing as say the normal table of wondrous items or that a rogue has a medium BAB. Its not rules for making new items, rather it's a pricing guide as the table even says.
Its a guide to help DMs make new items that they have decided to allow in the campaign rather than rules for PCs to make new items. And it requires a degree of oversight lest the DM allow the wrong items in the game or under-price them based solely on these guidelines.
All that said, you've already had some people say that as a DM they wouldn't allow it and others say that they would. Personally I would allow it, but that's me.
James, I want to apologize if I came across attacking you. Was not my intention. I have come to respect your posts as you have helped me out before and you are very knowledgeable in regards to the game in general.
However, I will say I was a bit annoyed with your original input as it really had nothing to do with the question at hand. It was just to say "You are wrong, this is a guideline, not a set of rules to use in making unique items."
Where I do agree with you in the DM has final say in any unique item that is made and what 'guidelines' he wants to use, I disgaree the chart is intended for DM's to create items solely for himself. I actually feel it is for both the DM and player.
But again, is it something where a player can go to the DM and say "I am going to make this item and it will cost this much because the chart says that's the case" No, of course not, it is the DM's decision what the player can and can't do in regards to his unique item, if he can make it at all.
To Jake:
Yes, I understand, it can vary on each item, but I was not sure if you did have a formula in place for items where the CL is higher. I know it would have been easier for my DM if I decided to craft any future magic items and he would have used the formula if he felt it was reasonable.
what slot do you determine it goes in? I know certain ability bonuses are associated with certain body slots, but what about skills and what would be be best for Spellcraft? I was thinking of putting it on goggles of some kind. Or, would that be the wrong slot?
My next question is, what spell would be associated with this item? In the item Cloak of Elvenkind, Invisibility is used. What spell would you use for Spellcraft, if one is needed?
And my final question, at the bottom of the chart, one of the siddenote numbers (4) indicates continuous items are charges x 100 (which the cloak would be), why isn't that worked into the price? The Cloak of Elvenkind only has the skill bonus squared x 100 worked out for the price (2,500 GP). I ask about the cloak, because again, the goggles I am thinking about are pretty much going to be the same thing, except maybe the spell required (if there is one).
1. My DM allowed me to make this exact item. I made a Glove of the Magi. I was also going to use the ability mostly for item creation so I chose a glove to wear during creation.
2. You can use Identify for the spell associated with the item, but I did not use the Cloak of Elvenkind to justify the item, but the Boots of Elvenkind. The CL went up 2, but I did not need a spell to do so. I also made a prereq that the creator must be a spellcaster.
3. The 'continuous' question is answered by comparing the effects. The glove does not give a spell effect, but a skill bonus. If the glove gave you the effect of Identify continuously, then this would apply.
Now what is Crafter’s Fortune?
Crafter's Fortune gives you a bonus to any Craft () skill...not Spellcraft. If you plan on using Spellcraft to create your magic items, Crafter's Fortune is no use to you.
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I played the Pathfinder module with a Spellcraft+5 item in earlier this month and I just found the description online in a place that might allow you to find other items you are looking for.
" Armillary Amulet
Source Pathfinder Module:From Shore to Sea 17
Aura faint divination; CL 5th
Slot neck; Price 2,500 gp; Weight —
Description
This thin chain of silvery-gray metal holds a series of interlocking rings that slowly turn within themselves in an accurate replication of the celestial sphere. The amulet grants its wearer a +5 competence bonus on Spellcraft checks.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, creator must have 5 ranks in the Spellcraft skill; Cost 1,250 gp"
Ok, thanks. Now that is something I could see my DM go for as it is out of a module.
Almost the same requirements as Jake’s item, minus the Identify spell. Good call on that one Jake. :)
Ugh, uses a neck slot, though. My bonded item is an amulet. I know I could add a magical effect to the bonded item, but was hoping to go with Natural Armor eventually.
So I wonder, was this amulet crafted as part of slot that would not be ordinary, or would the neck slot be standard for something like this? Actually, looking at the price, it doesn't look like it was created in mind with the slot being non-standard.
Now it begs the question if the forehead or head slot (goggles) would also be considered a normal slot.
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Will reveal as little about the item as possible, but to quell your concerns:
To sum up, I believe that the head and face slots would be good for spellcraft-boosting items. Amulets in and of themselves tend to be universal types of items, granting bonuses from natural armor to preventing someone from knowing what alignment you are to letting you plane shift, so they're "special".
Almost the same requirements as Jake’s item, minus the Identify spell. Good call on that one Jake. :)
Ah does muh best. :)
I'm just curious, what items did you build for your cleric? It sounds like you built an item to help Craft Magic Arms and Armor and another one to help Craft Wonderous Items. What limitation was put on each of these items? And finally, what did your DM decide on what the reduced cost would be (due to the limitations)
I know it is the first thing my cleric did when he took Craft Magic Arms and Armor and Craft Wonderous Items.
Well first I should note that this character is in an epic game and has recently made two new spell adder items to help with casting epic spells, one is a +30 Competance Spellcraft 'Orb of Concentration' that must be held and another was a +30 Enhancement Spellcraft "Circlet of Divine Focus" that must be worn. I don't have the exact costs in front of me but they were made with no price outstanding price reductions/limitations so IIRC they were 90,000 and 135,000 gold respectivley + MC item costs (about an additional 5K for the circlet and orb each). Using them allows him to cast 30' radius, +40 Wisdom enhancement Epic spell (Epic Divine Insight) that has a 5 day duration with no spell failure chance. Yes the party loves that. Yes 3.5 Epic magic is stupid sick.
But to answer your original question, she charged me the same as a cloak of elvenkind -40% for the limitations of usable only by worshippers of Kelemvor, requires Spellcraft of at least 5 ranks to use and only usable by divine spell casters for a +5 Spellcraft set of 'Tools' to make magic items with. It is assumed that the items must be held or used to be effective (much like the cloak of elvenkind must be worn) and was part of the same cost as the cloak.
In fact the one set of tools was just a spellcraft adder, while it was used primarliy for crafting items, in theory it would work for any spellcraft check as long as you could be wielding the tools somehow while doing so.
No I was not required to make a seperate spellcraft item for each crafting feat, the one set was usable on any actual spellcraft test, but I only used them when making items, as when I was in combat the slots they used were full with other items that kept me alive hehe.
Or course I have since replaced that tool set with the orbs listed above and passed the tools on to my former squire (an ongoing NPC character) who has recently taken to building magic arms and armor for the church.