Just curious.
I'm going to say yes. And if not I need to rewrite something. ;)
Do they continue to function inside an anti-magic field? (Hint: the answer is yes.)
My guess is that while it is near impossible to create undead inside the wastes, if they come from somewhere else they are just fine.
I don't think the mana wastes are like an anti-magic field -- I think it's more akin to the wild magic zones of FR. In my opinion it seems like the place that supernatural abilities would work while spells and spell-likes would not. So golems, incorporeal creatures, and dragon's breath would all work but a genie's ability to plane shift would not.
Monks, paladins, several hexes, and channel energy would work (SU effects)... were as many demon abilities would not.
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how can a haunted castle "guard" a city of the living? Or is this an euphemism?actually there is mention of a haunted castle guarding the city of Alkenstar... so I would say yes, there are incorporeal undead.Do they continue to function inside an anti-magic field? (Hint: the answer is yes.)Unless they're incorporeal, in which case they wink out.
Cloudreaver Keep: Standing opposite Dongun Hold
and connected to the Sky Citadel as well as Alkenstar Cityvia the impressive Bridge of the Gods, Cloudreaver Keep
guards the duchy’s eastern border. In truth, though, since
its completion the keep has been under attack—ghosts and
other haunts torment it from within, while yetis frequently
besiege it from without.
Creative Director
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Undead (and other magically-created creatures like constructs) work fine in the Mana Wastes. In fact, there's a fair amount of both of these monster types found in the Mana Wastes. Magically-created creatures like these function fine in dead magic or anti-magic areas (although their supernatural and spell-like abilities do not, which might result in making them less powerful; note that the incorporeal ability is an extraordinary ability and thus works fine in such areas). For the same reasons, detect magic doesn't detect them any better than it would detect a human or a cat.
Undead (and other magically-created creatures like constructs) work fine in the Mana Wastes. In fact, there's a fair amount of both of these monster types found in the Mana Wastes. Magically-created creatures like these function fine in dead magic or anti-magic areas (although their supernatural and spell-like abilities do not, which might result in making them less powerful; note that the incorporeal ability is an extraordinary ability and thus works fine in such areas). For the same reasons, detect magic doesn't detect them any better than it would detect a human or a cat.
Cats don't detect as magical. Crap . . . I've been doing it wrong. ;)
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For the same reasons, detect magic doesn't detect them any better than it would detect a human or a cat.Cats don't detect as magical. Crap . . . I've been doing it wrong. ;)
I think James is doing it wrong. Cats ARE magic. Just ask Lovecraft. Or Bast. But you have less chance of going insane if you ask Lovecraft. Despite the fact that he's dead.
Undead (and other magically-created creatures like constructs) work fine in the Mana Wastes. In fact, there's a fair amount of both of these monster types found in the Mana Wastes. Magically-created creatures like these function fine in dead magic or anti-magic areas (although their supernatural and spell-like abilities do not, which might result in making them less powerful; note that the incorporeal ability is an extraordinary ability and thus works fine in such areas). For the same reasons, detect magic doesn't detect them any better than it would detect a human or a cat.
I dunno.. a tibit in halfling shape may detect as magical. :oP
Magically-created creatures like these function fine in dead magic or anti-magic areas (although their supernatural and spell-like abilities do not, which might result in making them less powerful; note that the incorporeal ability is an extraordinary ability and thus works fine in such areas).
Perhaps the Mana Wastes work differently, but incorporeal undead disappear in an Antimagic Field spell:
"Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away."
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Creative Director
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Magically-created creatures like these function fine in dead magic or anti-magic areas (although their supernatural and spell-like abilities do not, which might result in making them less powerful; note that the incorporeal ability is an extraordinary ability and thus works fine in such areas).Perhaps the Mana Wastes work differently, but incorporeal undead disappear in an Antimagic Field spell:
"Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away."
That's exceptionally frustrating, and I suspect it's actually an error. I'll talk with Jason about it, but incorporeal remains an Extraordinary ability and thus SHOULD function in an antimagic zone. It certainly still functions in magic dead zones.
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Creative Director
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Are there any other sources about the Mana Wastes? I get the feeling nothing can live out there.
There's 4 pages about them in the upcoming "World Guide: the Inner Sea." They're inhospitable, yes, but far from desolate of all life. Think of them as a magical apocalyptic realm, populated by the fantasy equivalents of the monsters and mutants and creatures that populate post apocalyptic worlds like Fallout or certain regions in Stephen King's "Dark Tower" saga.
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how can a haunted castle "guard" a city of the living? Or is this an euphemism?actually there is mention of a haunted castle guarding the city of Alkenstar... so I would say yes, there are incorporeal undead.Do they continue to function inside an anti-magic field? (Hint: the answer is yes.)Unless they're incorporeal, in which case they wink out.
no
actually I expressed myself wrong...there is mention of a haunted castle which guards the city of Aklenstar
as in the city and its guards is for the city protection, but ITS is haunted which endagers the guards lives :P
my mistake
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Are there any other sources about the Mana Wastes? I get the feeling nothing can live out there.There's 4 pages about them in the upcoming "World Guide: the Inner Sea." They're inhospitable, yes, but far from desolate of all life. Think of them as a magical apocalyptic realm, populated by the fantasy equivalents of the monsters and mutants and creatures that populate post apocalyptic worlds like Fallout or certain regions in Stephen King's "Dark Tower" saga.
neat
That's exceptionally frustrating, and I suspect it's actually an error. I'll talk with Jason about it, but incorporeal remains an Extraordinary ability and thus SHOULD function in an antimagic zone. It certainly still functions in magic dead zones.Perhaps the Mana Wastes work differently, but incorporeal undead disappear in an Antimagic Field spell:
"Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away."
I suspect it might have been put in there so that incorporeal creatures don't become unkillable. I bet there's at least one person in the history of D&D who had a bad experience... ;-)
well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :P
How exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?
Cats don't detect as magical. Crap . . . I've been doing it wrong. ;)
Well, duh. Cats are psionic, and this world uses the "Psionics are Different" rules.
well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :PHow exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?
I'd recommend an Archimedean death ray designed to collect moonlight back into sunlight and let that zot the spectre.
Unfortunately, on moonless nights you're hosed, but it follows sound alchemical principles.
well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :PHow exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?
Alchemical items. Energy damage deals damage (even at half rate) which is more than no damage at all.
Alchemical items. Energy damage deals damage (even at half rate) which is more than no damage at all.well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :PHow exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?
Really?
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.
Emphasis mine.
Alchemical items. Energy damage deals damage (even at half rate) which is more than no damage at all.well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :PHow exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?Really?
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.Emphasis mine.
hmm... good point then:
Barbarian (invulnerable rager) rage powers:Lesser/normal/greater beast totems, animal fury and the eldritch claws feat.
Holy water?
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well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :PHow exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?
since I am a Ravenloft guy I would search for that which gives it reason to continue in the world, and the either complete whatever it needes completed or breaking that manacle that keeps it here...
If there is no magic as DM you are forced to be creative, the onsters stop just ebing generic and they get some background and some background that actually afects the gaming.
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well if you can get an antimagic shield, then you have the power to kill a ghost :PHow exactly would you go about killing a spectre (say) in the Mana Wastes, assuming the spectre was free to move around and attack?
but this is a mote point... we were discussing parts of the rules where they say that antimagic shield actually makes spirits go "puff" which James says its not like that...
Now you brought the topic back to Alkenstar... which while that is the general topic has nothing to do with this particualr part of the discussion... SINCE there is no spellcaster that can cast "antimagic shield"
but if he/she did.. then he would have enough repertoire of spells to actually destroy an spectre without needing to CAST "Antimagic Shield"
Now the problem is the part of CASTing... nonetheless its not me, but Paizo, the one saying that there are incorporeal undeads in Alkenstar :P
I'd think that in Alkenstar, the obvious solution would be to find some substance which naturally has the "ghost touch" property and then use that to make bullets.
I would say, following the folklore of the show Supernatural and the folklore its based on, that rock salt should fit the bill nicely. And since with a name like "Alkenstar," I'm expecting the whole place or at least a reasonably large portion is like the great salt desert of Utah, rock salt should be in copious supply.
Just load up a sawed-off shotgun or blunderbuss and blast away.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well at least they can't energy drain you (SU) so it's 'only' 1d8 points of damage. Shadows can't even do that. :-)
For me, I still allow incorporeal creatures to take damage (albiet with the 50%) from mundane energy attacks. So torches are actually somewhat useful.
I may also allow alchemists to use their mutagens/bombs in the wastes, despite being (SU).
Holy water?
Sounds reasonable. That or Kevin's suggestion of some natural compound.
I think James is doing it wrong. Cats ARE magic. Just ask Lovecraft. Or Bast. But you have less chance of going insane if you ask Lovecraft. Despite the fact that he's dead.For the same reasons, detect magic doesn't detect them any better than it would detect a human or a cat.Cats don't detect as magical. Crap . . . I've been doing it wrong. ;)
Disagree.
Yes, Cats are magical, but they are also .
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I'd think that in Alkenstar, the obvious solution would be to find some substance which naturally has the "ghost touch" property and then use that to make bullets.
I would say, following the folklore of the show Supernatural and the folklore its based on, that rock salt should fit the bill nicely. And since with a name like "Alkenstar," I'm expecting the whole place or at least a reasonably large portion is like the great salt desert of Utah, rock salt should be in copious supply.
Just load up a sawed-off shotgun or blunderbuss and blast away.
very interesting idea Kevin
with this I was thinking in adding an idea, but it might be a bit steampunkish... considering the Ghostbuster were using mostly pulp science ideas, maybe creating a portable electric generator/ejector powered with a clockwork mechanism might do part of the work... the rest could be used with quarz crystals arranged in a specific ways to catch the spirits, after all, it is said that Quarz serves both to guard against evil and to trap evil energies.
besides the common folklore of using salt in your doors and windows to keep evil spirits away.
mixed with some blessed holy bullets and your salt-shotgun and some alchemical grenades I think we might have a great hunter of the dead :D
+1