If your in RotRL... I'd say Riddleport. Or perhaps Kaer Magga.
Another option would be Sandpoint. Provided it is the players attempting this, and they can get control of the Glassworks, using the old smuggling tunnels.
Depends on how far west, but I think your likely choices are Nidal and Cheliax in the north; The Shackles and Mediogalti Islands in the South. None of these area have any issues with slavery as a practice as noted in the guidelines, as it can be a means for commerce or entertainment. Given Rahadoum's humanistic, atheist stance, I would suspect that slavery is not looked on kindly, but not as zealously opposed as Andoran. Thuvia may also be a location with no issues concerning the matter.
I would agree with Pathos on Varisian locations, if you want something more local to RotRL. It could be possible that some slavery of a hidden nature is taking place in Magnimar's seedier areas.
I would agree with Pathos on Varisian locations, if you want something more local to RotRL. It could be possible that some slavery of a hidden nature is taking place in Magnimar's seedier areas.
Aye... Down in The Shadows.
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Another vote for Kaer Maga.
As "dark" as Riddleport is, I don't think slavery is legal there. And slavery is certainly not legal in Sandpoint.
Since you're asking about further west, the best bet is in the Hold of Belkzen -- best choice being Deepgate. Or maybe there can be a good "home-created" place in the River Kingdoms where small "empires" rise and fall seasonally.
Nidal is an option, sure, depending on the slavelords you're designing -- but it may be a bit too scary. Slavers are bad but those guys are really bad.
Check out Pathfinder.Wikia.com for some fun looking.
Would definitely work in Kaer Maga.
Nobody policing that market.
Well, if I had a load of slaves from Varisia, and wanted to sell them profitably, I'd first need to know what the values for slaves were and where the demand is. Honestly, the only place I can think of as a great market for it is Katapesh, but here's an easy low-magic solution for the whole thing: Get a cockatrice. Not an amazingly well-trained tame cockatrice (though that would be handy) just a healthy one in a cage you can take care of and change the straw for every once in a while via mage hand or a low-tech ten foot pole. Have your prospective slaves bound up in the full fetal position and let your cockatrice peck them in the butt until they finally turn to stone.
This done, you now have some really nice ballast rocks for your boat. Use these as the lowest of your ballast rocks with a few regular ballast rocks up on top just in case any busy-body Andorans come by and demand to inspect your bilge.
When you get to Katapesh, offload your ballast stones. Yes, about 50% will die from being turned back to flesh via Stone to Flesh, but Katapesh is north of Geb, and corpses are still worth money as zombie components, so there's still profit to be made, and you didn't have to feed, house, deal with possible slave revolts, or all sorts of troubles you usually have with transporting live slaves. Besides which, the slave merchants of Katapesh will likely appreciate having the slaves already stored in convenient stone form for warehousing purposes. I mean, sometimes you have a princess wanting four perfectly matched Varisian slave boys to bear her palanquin evenly and look stylish while doing it. Do you know how long it takes to get them all matched, especially if the princess demands a particular height for her palanquin bearers? But if you have a large warehouse of petrified slaves, you can pick out just the ones you want, and if enough survive the Stone to Flesh, you can even offer the princess a convenient team of four and a fifth as spare in case one gets sick or goes lame.
There's another plus side to this system: warehouse the statues long enough, there won't be any bother for the slavers. I mean, even if a slave escapes and demands justice, who is he going to sue for a crime that was committed forty or more years ago? The paperwork looked perfectly in order then, and even if it wasn't, what are you going to do? Go try to arrest some toothless retired pirate in a walker?
Yes, you'd have to be paying for a wizard or sorcerer with Stone to Flesh, but you'd expect that all the big slave trading houses would have one of these on retainer, or at very least be doing bargain "standby pricing" with those who can cast it daily. The premium by-the-book prices are for adventurers who had an unfortunate encounter with a medusa or gorgon or something and are willing to pay premium prices, but the slavers will likely offer the wizards 10% of that for whatever they've got left over to just drop by their showrooms and do it with statuary at the mage's convenience.
One also expects that the "Field of Maidens" would have been de-maidened long ago, given the proximity to Katapesh and all these statues of healthy young women just standing out there in the rain. Yes, Geb might object as it would be messing with his effective war monument, but that's just a good reason for a wizard with teleport, stone shape, flesh to stone, and a bag of holding to pop out to the field, tip a statue out of the bag, tip another one in, and pop back out again. I'd be heartily surprised if the "field of maidens" actually had any actual petrified maidens left at this point given the profit to be made with slaves and corpses.
If it was possible to depetrify the maidens, I'm sure Geb would have himself, he seems a practical sort.
I'm guessing that the epic mass petrify spell Geb used isn't undone by mortal magic, or the last guy who tryed was killed by Geb personally.
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Well, there IS a problem with transporting statues :
1 - They Are Heavy, and you can't put too many in a ship's hold without it sinking.
2 - They take space (you'd need to petrify them in a curled up position)
3 - They are fragile. A good average storm at sea, and if extraordinary precautions are not taken, you'll have a lot of smashed bits. Kinda annoying when you have to reverse the spell.
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Other option : you take a high level wizard or bard, cast mass charm twice a day, and have a cleric or two, and disguise your whole slave trade as a pilgrimage to the holy tomb of so and so. After a few days of that, your slaves may even believe it.
You won't even need guards potentially (which is good because they cost and they talk).
You may also want to do it in classic ADD1 fashion and hire cloakers, but good luck trusting them.
A "make whole" spell takes care of any troubles with worn bits. And wrapping them up in something like woven reeds would take care of most of those worries anyway, even with a storm.
The fact is, most slave taking would likely be done via teleport, at least at the high end--deluxe gladiators, highly skilled scholars, that sort of thing.
If we're going to want to be doing slavery by ship, either we assume that there's no magic used--in which case it's basically modeled on the old Atlantic slave trade--or else we assume that there's going to be some magic used.
Petrifying the slaves lets them be saved for all sorts of uses. Why build a terra cotta army for your tomb, or have perfectly healthy slaves killed and buried with you, when you can have a warehouse of petrified slaves to pick from to deck out your Osirian tomb?
It's also a wonderful way to warehouse knowledge. If you've got a petrified slave with some useful knowledge, you can bring them out of stone when you need it, and if they fail their save, you have an evil cleric turn the corpse into some form of intelligent undead who'll be able to tell you what you need. Mummies aren't a bad idea.
Or you can just not bother with any magic and just factor in the chance of Andorans liberating your wares as one of the regular perils of shipping, though if the Andorans are too troublesome, the most practical idea is to just make landfall in western Thuvia and caravan the slaves through Osirion (selling some along the way if the price is right) until you come to the markets of Katapesh. Yes, you'll have to pay fees to the Thuvians and the Osirions, but honestly, if they know a trick, they'd already be charging you for sailing through their waters so it comes to much the same thing. Any slaves that die en route are just packed up and shipped on to Geb for the undead markets there.
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A "make whole" spell takes care of any troubles with worn bits.
I can't quite agree to this one. This is too easy of a way out. I am not talking worn bits, but smashed bits. As in lose an arm or leg ... which can be repaired on a regular statue, but why should it work on a petrified victim ? At least, why ... to full effect ? I can imagine cripples and the like resulting from this.
Also, this is another extra cost. You need the whole thing to be profitable in the end.
It is true that Teleport seems overall a cheaper option than the whole rest. If you have a high profile target, this is definitely the way to go.
And for cheaper sells ... The whole stone to flesh does not look like worth the cost and bother, though that's me.
SO, still following from the "Turn booty into ballast' entry,
The organization is either going to need something like an 11th Lvl Wizard on the books, or running the show. Or they have a staff of Stone to flesh that they some how recharge.
Staves recharge by casting spells into them...even by level 1 casters, as long as they have the spells on the stave's spell list. I would just have the slave operation run by a higher level very evil (or neutral if he's greedy) wizard.
A "make whole" spell takes care of any troubles with worn bits.I can't quite agree to this one. This is too easy of a way out. I am not talking worn bits, but smashed bits. As in lose an arm or leg ... which can be repaired on a regular statue, but why should it work on a petrified victim ? At least, why ... to full effect ? I can imagine cripples and the like resulting from this.
Also, this is another extra cost. You need the whole thing to be profitable in the end.
It is true that Teleport seems overall a cheaper option than the whole rest. If you have a high profile target, this is definitely the way to go.
And for cheaper sells ... The whole stone to flesh does not look like worth the cost and bother, though that's me.
Well, if you rule it not worth the cost and bother, it's not worth the cost and bother. Everyone will do their slave trading via teleport, and for that matter trade in ever high ticket item.
Pirates can completely give up on the idea of any ship having any booty chest filled with portable wealth, since any valuables of any note small enough to be dumped in a portable hole would be dealt with that way. Hell, you can do that with live slaves too. A portable hole and a helm of teleportation and anyone can kidnap anyone from anywhere. Yes, there's a large initial cost for these items, but amortized over a few years?
That said, having all the slavers be *BAMF*ing teleporters with shanghaid slaved folded up in their pocket handkerchiefs is amusing, but it also isn't anything your average hero is going to be able to do much about unless someone gets exceptionally sloppy.
A bunch of merchants smuggling petrified slaves as their ballast stones? That's colorful.
Other ways to get a bunch of slaves to go with you is to just use a mass charm, either via spell or having a tame harpy. Charm all your slaves to say they're religious acolytes of some cult you've invented so if the Andorans show up, all they see is a boatload of happy religious pilgrims who will of course not believe that you intend to sell them into slavery once they get to Katapesh.
Alternately, just lie really well. A bard with a great Bluff check would work really well as a slaver.
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Alternately, just lie really well. A bard with a great Bluff check would work really well as a slaver.
"Slaves, you say! Well, sirs, I am offended. Never have I been so insulted. Off my ship with the lot of you, and this very instant. I'll not have such invidious insinuations sully my craft a moment longer. I shall take this up with your commanding officer at the earliest opportunity, have you no manners? No decency? Oh, dear, now I'm crying, for pity's sake: look what you've done. I'll not hear another word, not a one..."
An hour later, on the Andoran ship: "Did that tearful woman say why she had a lot of men chained up in the hold?"
"No, I don't believe she did."
"Damnit, Johansen!"
"Sorry, Admiral."
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Well, if you rule it not worth the cost and bother, it's not worth the cost and bother.A bunch of merchants smuggling petrified slaves as their ballast stones? That's colorful.
Hey, I get your point, and no offence meant. It's true it makes for a good story. it's just that I have a bunch of highly analytical players, and they would question why the bad guys would go to so much trouble over ORDINARY slaves, so I'm used to objections over that kind of weird stuff.
Also, I like verysimilitude, and one constant of human nature, is the path of least resistance.
And I like the idea of the harpy.
Well, if you rule it not worth the cost and bother, it's not worth the cost and bother.A bunch of merchants smuggling petrified slaves as their ballast stones? That's colorful.
Hey, I get your point, and no offence meant. It's true it makes for a good story. it's just that I have a bunch of highly analytical players, and they would question why the bad guys would go to so much trouble over ORDINARY slaves, so I'm used to objections over that kind of weird stuff.
Also, I like verysimilitude, and one constant of human nature, is the path of least resistance.
And I like the idea of the harpy.
"Mid-grade" household slaves sell for 50 gp a person. The problem is in the cost per mile (1 sp per person per mile) - after 250 miles, that's half of your money gone.
A slave ring intent to export slaves from Varisia to Katapesh is looking at having to target the more desirable specimens (worth multipliers more than the average) of slaves that qualify as "hard labor" (worth let us say 250 gp each) or better yet, "specialized" (1,000+ gp each) because of the distance involved.
A closer operation would be Varisians to Cheliax. Given that Cheliax uses considerable numbers of hobbits as slaves - and that they are typically valued at 100 gp - means that the costs all told wouldn't likely be more than 50 gp per hobbit (and probably quite a bit less).
Prices taken from Adventurer's Armory or CRB.
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A closer operation would be Varisians to Cheliax. Given that Cheliax uses considerable numbers of hobbits as slaves - and that they are typically valued at 100 gp - means that the costs all told wouldn't likely be more than 50 gp per hobbit (and probably quite a bit less).
Prices taken from Adventurer's Armory or CRB.
This seems much more likely to me as well.
I found myself pondering the issue of the stone to flesh cost for using cocktries to petrifying slaves. The trick is that cockatrices are a bad choice. They have a decent chance of pecking the subject to death before they actually turn to stone. There's a good chance of spontaneous recovery, and if you do ensure that the subject stays petrified, you need an expensive stone to flesh spell or stone salve. Even if you get those cheap (the slaver guild master is an archmage), you STILL have a low survival rate.
Instead, the slaves should be preserved with Basilisks. They're a bit harder to handle, since a gaze attack is harder to control than a touch, but the subject isn't damaged, and won't wake up on it's own. They can then be de-petrified with basilisk blood (which you have steady access to, since you have tame Basilisks). No 11th level casters required, no death rate when 'thawing out' your stock.
I found myself pondering the issue of the stone to flesh cost for using cocktries to petrifying slaves. The trick is that cockatrices are a bad choice. They have a decent chance of pecking the subject to death before they actually turn to stone. There's a good chance of spontaneous recovery, and if you do ensure that the subject stays petrified, you need an expensive stone to flesh spell or stone salve. Even if you get those cheap (the slaver guild master is an archmage), you STILL have a low survival rate.
Instead, the slaves should be preserved with Basilisks. They're a bit harder to handle, since a gaze attack is harder to control than a touch, but the subject isn't damaged, and won't wake up on it's own. They can then be de-petrified with basilisk blood (which you have steady access to, since you have tame Basilisks). No 11th level casters required, no death rate when 'thawing out' your stock.
How cool is it that the Assistant Brain in a Jar chimes in on methods for achieving criminal mischief ? ^_^
All you need are blind animal handlers...
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I found myself pondering the issue of the stone to flesh cost for using cocktries to petrifying slaves. The trick is that cockatrices are a bad choice. They have a decent chance of pecking the subject to death before they actually turn to stone. There's a good chance of spontaneous recovery, and if you do ensure that the subject stays petrified, you need an expensive stone to flesh spell or stone salve. Even if you get those cheap (the slaver guild master is an archmage), you STILL have a low survival rate.
Instead, the slaves should be preserved with Basilisks. They're a bit harder to handle, since a gaze attack is harder to control than a touch, but the subject isn't damaged, and won't wake up on it's own. They can then be de-petrified with basilisk blood (which you have steady access to, since you have tame Basilisks). No 11th level casters required, no death rate when 'thawing out' your stock.
Doesn't break enchantment work without requiring a fort save?
There are some medusa slave traders(and one nasty medusa art dealer) in my homebrew that roll that way. Add in stone shape and stone tell, and it can become horribly efficient. One prison in my homebrew just keeps their prisoners as stone blocks with a bolted-on placard detailing their identity and appearance when/should they need to be restored.
I found myself pondering the issue of the stone to flesh cost for using cocktries to petrifying slaves. The trick is that cockatrices are a bad choice. They have a decent chance of pecking the subject to death before they actually turn to stone. There's a good chance of spontaneous recovery, and if you do ensure that the subject stays petrified, you need an expensive stone to flesh spell or stone salve. Even if you get those cheap (the slaver guild master is an archmage), you STILL have a low survival rate.
Instead, the slaves should be preserved with Basilisks. They're a bit harder to handle, since a gaze attack is harder to control than a touch, but the subject isn't damaged, and won't wake up on it's own. They can then be de-petrified with basilisk blood (which you have steady access to, since you have tame Basilisks). No 11th level casters required, no death rate when 'thawing out' your stock.
Ah, yes, definitely true.
I was going on the false assumption--likely from previous editions--that it was the touch of the cockatrice, not specifically its peck, that did the trick, in which case all you'd need to do is put someone in contact with a trussed up drugged cockatrice to turn them to stone.
Question, however: As basilisks and cockatrices are related via origin myth (and were originally the same critter in mythology) will basilisk blood de-petrify the victim of a cockatrice, or vice versa?
In any case, the tame basilisk makes an excellent way to mothball unneeded slaves until the market improves, or in case of unpleasant things like plagues or undead uprisings (horrible problems for anyone whose stock in trade is healthy living humans).
One expects the basilisk would be very well fed to the point of being tubby, pampered and fed lots of sweetmeats (especially mahjoun, as the drug would help to keep it docile), and a real tragedy for the adventurers who stop the evil slavers only to realize the key to saving all the petrified slaves is somehow dealing with the spoiled basilisk who would be understandably upset at the death of its kind masters, who probably had blind slaves rub it with oil and give it squeaky toys to play with.
Doesn't break enchantment work without requiring a fort save?
It'll work for a medusa, but the basilisk and cockatrice both say 'as flesh to stone', which mean it runs afoul of break enchantment's '5th level spell or lower' clause.
Which sort of makes sense, because otherwise there's not a lot of reason for stone to flesh to exist, since it's primary purpose (de-petrifying people) could be done better by break enchantment, at a lower spell level (and on more spell lists) and no death risk. (Since the corner-use cases for stone to flesh, e.g., turning stone into an emergency food source, tinkering with golem spell vulnerabilities, or making a stone wall easier to cut through, aren't worth a 6th level spell.)
Question, however: As basilisks and cockatrices are related via origin myth (and were originally the same critter in mythology) will basilisk blood de-petrify the victim of a cockatrice, or vice versa?
Not by RAW, since the Basilisk ability spells out the blood only works on "creatures petrified this way", but it seems it would be fair enough to allow, or allow a compromise by allowing basilisk blood to let a cockatrice victim get another three days of 'recover on your own' saves.
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Doesn't break enchantment work without requiring a fort save?
It'll work for a medusa, but the basilisk and cockatrice both say 'as flesh to stone', which mean it runs afoul of break enchantment's '5th level spell or lower' clause.
Which sort of makes sense, because otherwise there's not a lot of reason for stone to flesh to exist, since it's primary purpose (de-petrifying people) could be done better by break enchantment, at a lower spell level (and on more spell lists) and no death risk. (Since the corner-use cases for stone to flesh, e.g., turning stone into an emergency food source, tinkering with golem spell vulnerabilities, or making a stone wall easier to cut through, aren't worth a 6th level spell.)
Y'know, somehow I got flesh to stone and break enchantment crossed up on which one was 5th level and which was 6th.
Back to the drawing board to find a perfectly safe means of affordable petrification/depetrification for that prison then!
hmm....medusas are lawful.....
Doesn't break enchantment work without requiring a fort save?
It'll work for a medusa, but the basilisk and cockatrice both say 'as flesh to stone', which mean it runs afoul of break enchantment's '5th level spell or lower' clause.
Which sort of makes sense, because otherwise there's not a lot of reason for stone to flesh to exist, since it's primary purpose (de-petrifying people) could be done better by break enchantment, at a lower spell level (and on more spell lists) and no death risk. (Since the corner-use cases for stone to flesh, e.g., turning stone into an emergency food source, tinkering with golem spell vulnerabilities, or making a stone wall easier to cut through, aren't worth a 6th level spell.)
Y'know, somehow I got flesh to stone and break enchantment crossed up on which one was 5th level and which was 6th.
Back to the drawing board to find a perfectly safe means of affordable petrification/depetrification for that prison then!
hmm....medusas are lawful.....
Your method works for Medusae and Gorgons, you know.
Thanks for all the responses. I've got a much better idea of what the slavers can do now. Whatever port I pick for the slavers to go to, it will have to be close due to transportation costs (though I'd argue that you could move slaves cheaper than 1sp per mile and that the 1sp reflects the price a ships captain charges to make a profit rather than his actual cost).
I read the other night that Corentyn is a major slaving port, so I'm going to see if I can work with that.
Call the balance of the cost bribery. :)
When it comes up this is what we have been using.