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My group and I started CoCT last week and in preparing next week's session, I'm a bit concerned about something...
Last week I ran my players through some individual "vignettes" that were meant to set up their grudges against Gaedren Lamm. For instance, one character is looking for his kidnapped niece and, in his investigation, suspects she is now working for Lamm. Another character figures out that Lamm murdered his uncle and now he wants revenge.
My players really enjoyed these vignettes and they're excited to get their revenge, but the one thing they keep saying is "This guy is going to be tough."
I definitely understand how/why they can think this. Their investigation (and the campaign itself) has led them to believe that Lamm is quite a powerful force. He has his fingers into many aspects of the underworld, he has caused a great deal of suffering for not only the PCs but for many inhabitants of Korvosa.
So next week they're going to the Fishery and I can already hear their surprise when they have little to no trouble dispatching Lamm. He's a withered old man who won't present much of a challenge to them.
I'm a bit confused as to what to do. Sure, I can make Lamm more dangerous and powerful, but then I risk making him a bigger part of the campaign than I really want to. I've also thought about explaining it away by saying that the Thieves Guild found out Lamm was working independantly and have hit him with some pretty heavy back taxes...he's been taxed so heavily that his organization is a shell of what it once was...
Curious to hear your thoughts on the subject!
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I think when I will run this, Gaedren will be hiding in the shadows and/or behind a box and will have placed a dummy of himself in a visible, but shadowy place. This dummy will serve as a decoy. When the PC's go for it, they will be attacked by the croc, and will also risk being sneak attacked by Gaedren.
Even if Gaedren himself is weak, hopefully just with this element of surprise, and having to deal with the crocodile at the same time, should make for a memorable fight.
But if you're worried it would still be too easy, I would recommend making Gaedren a bit tougher, because indeed, it will start the campaign on a strange note if he's too easily defeated.
That's good advice, and you could always do what I did in my campaign; add a rogue level and give him Improved Feint.
But generally just browse the threads here. The problem with Lamm has been addressed in various ways. Generally I think the characters are supposed to realize that Lamm, however nasty, is small fry, and move on to greater things.
Lamm is a bit tricky. He is really only there to provide a more interesting reason why the party gets together, and introduces Zellara.
The thing is to impress upon the players the personal nature of their vendetta. Focus on how vile the man is and how his luck seems to keep from ever getting caught. But he's not a powerful figure in the underworld. He is not in the same leagues as Devargo and certainly not Boule or _____. He's known because he's been around forever not because he has amassed any influence or wealth.
Re the toughness, my two cp. The mooks can be tough if they get the drop on the party. It depends on the player's strategy. I would toughen up Giggles and the others before Lamm. As for Lamm play up his age and poor health. He could even use it to taunt, distract his adversaries as in "had to wait until I was old before you took me on eh? Some hero!" The party is ready to enjoy their revenge when they are faced with this sick but still very evil old man. Its unexpected, its different. But there's still a croc.
Lamm is a bit tricky. He is really only there to provide a more interesting reason why the party gets together, and introduces Zellara.
The thing is to impress upon the players the personal nature of their vendetta. Focus on how vile the man is and how his luck seems to keep from ever getting caught. But he's not a powerful figure in the underworld. He is not in the same leagues as Devargo and certainly not Boule or _____. He's known because he's been around forever not because he has amassed any influence or wealth.
Re the toughness, my two cp. The mooks can be tough if they get the drop on the party. It depends on the player's strategy. I would toughen up Giggles and the others before Lamm. As for Lamm play up his age and poor health. He could even use it to taunt, distract his adversaries as in "had to wait until I was old before you took me on eh? Some hero!" The party is ready to enjoy their revenge when they are faced with this sick but still very evil old man. Its unexpected, its different. But there's still a croc.
Great post Wyrd. Lamm should go out taunting and demoralizing the PC's exactly as stated, his bite may be gone but his bark is still there. Lamm is still wiley though so play him smart. The deadly part of this encounter is the croc. If the PC's miss it or it is hiding below the surface of the water and gets a suprise on them, it is likely someone will die then and there, as he can easily drag any 1st level PC into his little hole for a death roll.
So next week they're going to the Fishery and I can already hear their surprise when they have little to no trouble dispatching Lamm. He's a withered old man who won't present much of a challenge to them.
I'm about to run this AP in a month and I thought the same thing too. This is why I'm:
1) Converting Lamm to PF and making all his levels in rogue. I'm going to make him weak, but not a handicap. I might even give him a level of shadowdancer, but I'm not sure. It would make him more mystical, and more of a threat.2) Lamm is smart and he's going to be evaluating the PCs in this first encounter. Lamm doesn't know if the PCs are level 1 or level 20, and he's not taking any chances. That's the premise of this first encounter, it's a feeling out process.
3) Lamm is hiding on top of his crates, over top of the water, where it will be almost impossible to get to him (you need climb the ropes or use missile weapons, if he's even spotted).
4) I'm giving him the rogue Minor Magic ability, with Ventriloquism and Mage Hand as his level 0 spells. With these spells he can confuse and toy with the PCs while remaining hidden.
5) Instead of directly fighting the PCs, Lamm is going to use traps in the room and activate them when PCs move or set them off. These traps won't do much damage (D6) but I'm going to design them to test the player's abilities. If I'm feeling mean, they might blow up and knock a PC into the water (but I'm going to think about that, because of drowning and the croc). Plus there is the croc. I'm going to think of more because I want the encounter to be interesting and unique... something they haven't seen before. Maybe like an X-Men danger room or a Star Trek holodeck room type feel.
6) I'm going to have him escape, through the water, after the croc is dead. (or if the PCs flee). They'll fight Lamm at a later time, which I haven't decided yet (unless they kill him in the water, which is possible). It might be at the end of the first AP, it might be in 2nd AP.
7) Revenge Motif: I really disliked the start of the AP, in the sense that your character come together as a group to beat Lamm and are then expected to stay together as they play supercop around the city.
First of all, some character's might not even want help beating Lamm, or might have their own methods (although this can lead to good roleplaying). Second, working for the city, especially with strangers, is unrealistic and probably something they don't want to do, unless there is something else to hold them together.
So instead of a "supercop" theme for the first AP, I'm creating a "Kill Bill" revenge motif for this first AP. All the World's Meat and Eel's End are both criminal operations that Lamm owns. The bosses in these locations are people the PCs want to kill and will be introdcued in their prologue adventure. The Harrow deck will lead the PCs to these locations and they'll be looking to kill the bosses, stop his business, and find Lamm. The AP will be mostly about revenge, not saving the city. Along the way, they'll be saving the city by taking revenge on the underworld. The "saving the city" motif will be nurtured slowly so the transition will be more natural.
They'll still do some jobs for Kroft, while the Harrow deck is trying to locate Lamm and his operations, but the jobs for the city will basically:
a) Reward free XP to make levelling easier
b) Introduce important NPCs
c) Handle some of the random encounters (in a better, more interesting way than making them a "random" encounter)
d) Add some flavor to the city of Korvosa, showcasing various factions and areas (Ex. The acadmey). I might convert or steal ideas from 1-2 Dungeon magazine adventures to do this.
I'll be writing up a post myself, once we finish the AP. Any input is welcome, especially since I've only look at the summaries of the other APs, no details yet.