Flavor discussion for the Magus


Round 1: Magus


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept of the dabbler who focuses on one weapon at a time. I mean, it's certainly possible, but as a class, I'm tried to get my head around the concept. Are there magus schools? Do magi spontaneously develop from normal spellcasters, and then join clubs? Why prepared spellcasting? The closest legendary analogs I can think of would be the geometric fencing schools, who emphasized science and philosophy. I also get a Gray Star the Wizard kind of feel. In terms of sword-swigning casters who go boom, it's easier to think in terms of manga and anime type fantasy than traditional swords-and-sorcery. OTOH, Gandalf could do it, and wizards in the Harry Potter-verse certainly can. In short-- it certainly doesn't have the handle of "ranger" or "alchemist." Even the Eldritch Knight inherits from flavor from its components.

Also, the name is terrible. The first thing I think of Simon Magus, the Biblical character who tried to pay Jesus to teach him miracle-working, and later become a Christian. He gave his name, simony, to the crime of financial corruption of the clergy. The second thing I think of is that in the D&D Companion set, a magus is a very capable Magic-User. The third thing I think is the honkin' Three Wise Men. The fourth thing is that it shares a root with "magic," implying they should be the most magical of all classes, but in fact, they're part-timers. Could create huge issues in translations to Romantic languages, where mago is an antique word for, of course, magician. The fifth... well, you get the idea. A magus is a guy in a robe, not some sort of mage-fighter thingie. You must use a different name, even if you have to resort to Myrmidon-Magician. How about "Diestro?" It refers to a master fencer, and it's already been used in Warhammer in a different context (non-magical fencers). Or Myrmidon, one of the mythological warriors created from ants by dragon's teeth. Spellblade, mageblade, blademage, bladespeller, war mage, battle mage, ... heck, what's wrong with War Magus? Or... Warmagus? (rhymes with platypus)

And seriously, you want to call a book Ultimate Magic, and include a class called the Magus? You do know there is a fairly popular late 3.5 prestige class called Ultiamte Magus, right?

Many of the class abilities seem to presuppose an empty hand. The kind of sucks for spiked chain, glaive, or quarterstaff-based "magi."


Remember your roots. OD&D Elfs were Fighting-Men/Magic Users. Could Multi-class as Fighter/Mages. Your stereotypical Magus would be an elf (and our iconic Half-elf) who would have a great deal of time to tackle two subjects.

New Oxford English dictionary says:
a member of a priestly caste of ancient Persia.
• a sorcerer.

Start casting around into Persian mythology instead of biblical and see what you find.

Most (don't bite my face off Pazio staff with half-orc bity teeths) gish class assume a free hand of some kind at some point for the somatic components. Even the Duskblade and Hexblade for WotC vintage typically were done one-hand or light weapon to leave a free hand open for spell work. Considering the Magus can hit you with both a spell and a sword at the same time. However you should put your two cents in on the Magus Arcana suggestions to open up some two-handed weapon options.

Now, my personal take on the magus is exactly what the fluff indicates a blind of weapon focused warrior and book studying spell weaver. How does a magus come about? Well one option is the guy who got booted out of Wizard apprenticeship late in the process and need to learn a skill to pay his way fast. Killing (guarding) fo money fills many a purse, see all them town guard warriors. Take the inverse, a Fighter or Warrior who's to smart for his own good and gets his hands on a scroll of prestidigitation or figures out the basics of Reading Magic and so ditches the stupid weapon drills and forced marches. Instead focusing on flashy blade work and bits of minor (cantrip) magic so can impress further.

You would also see it arise in more Arcane influenced cultures where magical training has greater availably. Those that can't make it as Wizards get trained as magical guards. Funny... if you drop some letters you can get magus out of Magical guards. (and at that point of stupid, I fully realize that bed and sleep are mightily required, away with me)


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Are they magical guards? Is that a job they are good at? Who hires or trains them? etc.


The Magus is clearly a take on the 1e/2e F/MU. Generally not as good as either the fighter or the magic user (level limits and split XP are a pain in the ass). For all intents and purposes it's an eldritch knight (if that name wasn't already taken) or a bladesinger (if that wasn't so inextricably FR in tone). Basically a martial character who can trade sword strokes or battle spells as needed.

The Magus name is somewhat suspect not because of it's historical origins but more because it fails to describe the character in any meaningful way. Eventually we'll be used to the new name but chances are we'll still call it a Gish class ;)


you can hardly blame paizo for the cues, the memories, you have with the word "magus". I do agree that I can think of better names, but they would perhaps not please everyone. Plus, ingame, where it matters, classes are normally not referred to with their book-name.

But I do agree that the empty hand sounds way to absolute. Why do you still need an empty hand when casting a spell without somatic components. I have no problem with this rule, if it helps to balance things, but please explain why. Perhaps like the bard with speech, he must use somatic components in all spells.

For the moment however, I can't see why removing this restriction would unbalance the game.

For the rest, I have same problems with the flavour of the class too. But one cannot expect to get exactly what one wants two times in a row. The Inquisitor and Alchemist were perfect.


Dorje Sylas wrote:

Most (don't bite my face off Pazio staff with half-orc bity teeths) gish class assume a free hand of some kind at some point for the somatic components. Even the Duskblade and Hexblade for WotC vintage typically were done one-hand or light weapon to leave a free hand open for spell work. Considering the Magus can hit you with both a spell and a sword at the same time. However you should put your two cents in on the Magus Arcana suggestions to open up some two-handed weapon options.

Acually, Sage and FAW ruled you could take hand off 2 handed weapon as free action to cast and put it back on. It takes 2 handed to use a 2 handed weapon not hold it.

So you just channel and attack: no round wasting like spellstrike.

2 handed Dusdkblades were common for this reason. 3.5 supported 2 handers.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Richard Leonhart wrote:

you can hardly blame paizo for the cues, the memories, you have with the word "magus".

You are, of course, correct. I also cannot blame Paizo for the cues and memories I have of Bananaphone, but if they rename the class to be the Bananaphone, I can still take them to task for choosing a name with inappropriate connotations.

Like myrrh, for instance.

Quote:


I do agree that I can think of better names, but they would perhaps not please everyone. Plus, ingame, where it matters, classes are normally not referred to with their book-name.

But they are sometimes, right? What would you call a Magus, in-game, if it came up in discussion?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yawn, aren't we like half a year late with the "Magus name" discussion, or did I hibernate too long ?


Gorbacz wrote:
Yawn, aren't we like half a year late with the "Magus name" discussion, or did I hibernate too long ?

Magus is the new Oracle . . . ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Nah, Magus is the new Cleric heavy armor proficiency ... it just won't die, no matter how many times you stabracadabra it in the face.


I love the flavor of this class just fine.
The name does seem a little off, but I like it none-the-less.

As for someone with a split interest in both Book Casting and Melee, I wish this class existed back when I last played a Duskblade. Fits the flavor I was going with WAY better. Then again I'm a sucker for sword & spell hybrids, and tend to blindly love them all (except Hexblade, until the unofficial-official forum fix).

Character was a human with a shared interest in swords and spells - trained under two separate masters, a fighter and a wizard. When they found out he was moonlighting with the other and failing to properly devote himself to their art, they both disowned him as a student, both feeling the other focus was worthless. He set out into the world determined to prove the two could work together, and make BOTH his teachers proud.

Loved that character. :)
Magus seemed like it would've been far more fitting than Duskblade.

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