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The question is: why put more than 1 rank in a perform skill? Distraction and Countersong are the only two things that rely on the perform check, everything else is a level + Cha check. So, is there a reason, other than fluff, to put more than 1 rank in any perform skill?
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The question is: why put more than 1 rank in a perform skill? Distraction and Countersong are the only two things that rely on the perform check, everything else is a level + Cha check. So, is there a reason, other than fluff, to put more than 1 rank in any perform skill?
You can use Perform skills in place of other skills via Versatile Performance. You are getting a 2 for 1 return because you can use the Perform skill in place of two other skills.
For example, you can use Perform (Act) in place of both Bluff and Disguise.
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Its called Role playing, not every character is based on pure stats, some players like to play up the concept that their characters might be good at something say like singing or dancing and put ranks into it to represent that skill rather than being a single minded killing machine.
Believe it or not some players still believe in role playing vs roll playing
Its called Role playing, not every character is based on pure stats, some players like to play up the concept that their characters might be good at something say like singing or dancing and put ranks into it to represent that skill rather than being a single minded killing machine.
Believe it or not some players still believe in role playing vs roll playing
That is not what the OP was asking. Furthermore, skill points have nothing to do with being a "single minded killing machine." Perhaps the OP wants to roleplay another skill, and wants to use the points for that.
Please think twice before dredging up the tired "role-play vs. roll-play" argument again.
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Ok I played a bard for a loooong time. My Character was a bit of a egomaniac but good at what he did ie impress important people. While smashing down doors works for some my bard could talk his way into and out of virtually any sketchy scenario and diffuse things proir to battles breaking out. Think of performances as multifunctional spells. Using Oratory skills to smooth things over and understand peoples motives, and comedy to scare them into thinking your fiends are more powerful than they are or just plain demoralizing a foe. furthermore when our party had their buts handed to them or items stollen and or broken using a skill to make money is good and a good performer can do that; making fiends with important people with money, getting information more easily from people who let their guard down arround the artsy types.. oh and all while impressing the gals at the bar heh heh...
Versatile Performance (Ex)
At 2nd level, a bard can choose one type of Perform skill. He can use his bonus in that skill in place of his bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the bard uses his total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not he has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill. At 6th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the bard can select an additional type of Perform to substitute.
The types of Perform and their associated skills are: Act (Bluff, Disguise), Comedy (Bluff, Intimidate), Dance (Acrobatics, Fly), Keyboard Instruments (Diplomacy, Intimidate), Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Percussion (Handle Animal, Intimidate), Sing (Bluff, Sense Motive), String (Bluff, Diplomacy), and Wind (Diplomacy, Handle Animal).
Its called Role playing, not every character is based on pure stats, some players like to play up the concept that their characters might be good at something say like singing or dancing and put ranks into it to represent that skill rather than being a single minded killing machine.
Believe it or not some players still believe in role playing vs roll playing
That is not what the OP was asking. Furthermore, skill points have nothing to do with being a "single minded killing machine." Perhaps the OP wants to roleplay another skill, and wants to use the points for that.
Please think twice before dredging up the tired "role-play vs. roll-play" argument again.
Thanks for the backup Kryptik. I'm not asking because I want to be a single minded killing machine, I wouldn't pick bard if I did. I was asking to see if I might have missed a reason to keep pumping skill points into a single perform skill other than fluff reasons.
Unfortunately, Pathfinder APs only give a passing nod to role-playing and are really more about roll-playing because of all the people that like to crunch every number possible before even starting to play the game.
Trust me, if this were a homebrew campaign I would be covered in fluff. Pathfinder APs, unfortunately, just don't roll that way.
Edit: Versatile performance won't make too much difference because I'm taking the skills that the perform skill would cover anyway. My plan is to keep my perform skill at max anyway, just making sure I didn't miss any other applications while combing through the book.
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Edit: Versatile performance won't make too much difference because I'm taking the skills that the perform skill would cover anyway. My plan is to keep my perform skill at max anyway, just making sure I didn't miss any other applications while combing through the book.
Well that's your problem. Level 2 isn't THAT far away. Once you get your first versatile performance there's no reason to put any skill points into the skills for which it covers, as you'll be getting bigger bang for your buck by putting one skill point into a perform to watch two go up. When you hit six the same thing happens. If you've been putting points in your perform skills, at that point forward the original two skills for which you've been putting points into now "free up" and can be used elsewhere.
Also don't forget about how valuable countersong is. There are a lot of language and sonic dependent effects.
Well that's your problem. Level 2 isn't THAT far away. Once you get your first versatile performance there's no reason to put any skill points into the skills for which it covers, as you'll be getting bigger bang for your buck by putting one skill point into a perform to watch two go up. When you hit six the same thing happens. If you've been putting points in your perform skills, at that point forward the original two skills for which you've been putting points into now "free up" and can be used elsewhere.Also don't forget about how valuable countersong is. There are a lot of language and sonic dependent effects.
I guess that's a valid argument. I can re-evaluate the skills I'm taking and see if there's a better possible spread. With the Bard being a borderline skill monkey it's almost possible to get every class skill without really trying. We're going to be doing the new jungle treasure hunt AP so I can determine what will be useful as we go.
Unfortunately, Pathfinder APs only give a passing nod to role-playing and are really more about roll-playing because of all the people that like to crunch every number possible before even starting to play the game.
Trust me, if this were a homebrew campaign I would be covered in fluff. Pathfinder APs, unfortunately, just don't roll that way.
That really depends on the DM. I've been in a CotCT game for the past year or so and the RP is probably just as heavy if not moreso than the combat. It's pretty awesome.
What the APs do is give the DM a great deal of background to use to help guide roleplaying sections. It is rarer for them to have set out "this is a talking encounter" section. Take the opening festival at Sandpoint. Great chance to meet and great the local personalities if the DM and Players are interested in that kind of thing.
Two for one is only part of the goodness of versatile performance. You'll also get to use your CHA bonus for some skills that don't normally use a CHA bonus (e.g., acrobatics). Assuming CHA is your best stat, it's better to add a CHA bonus than a DEX bonus. Any skill you're going to get via versatile performance...only invest in it to the minimum standard you need based on how long you will need to wait to unlock a relevant versatile performance.
Not going with high Cha, I have other plans for the long run. Cha will be high enough for a couple levels of spells, then I am going outside of the norm for the rest of the build.
I've been playing a bard and its pretty much a case of Versatile Performance and roleplay as the main drivers for putting ranks in perform skills. If your DM allows 3.5 content you might also get payoff for some of the feats and class abilities that work off your perform skill.
The reason for the shift away from working off ranks is that it doesn't force players to put a point in something every level, which was what skills like Concentration and Perform were for 3.5 (core) Bards. I quiet like the Pathfinder skill system.
You can make/save gold by performing for an audience.
You can disseminate information (or misinformation, hehehe) to the locals through your songs, speeches, stories, ect.
You can also be quite a distraction. It won’t be relevant in combat situations, but for more subtle maneuvers it can make a difference.
I've found that two perform skills are where you want to be.
The reason: equipment
So, performance one is something you can do with your hands full, like sing or oratory.
Performance two is based around an instrument. When it counts, that +2 for the MW Les Paul guitar might matter. You might even find a magic guitar someday.
You might even persuade a DM that spells like GMW should work on a instrument. Who knows? But you'll never find +1 tic-tacs to help you sing.
The next reason is campaign-related. If you are in a pirate cove, you might find an accordion or fiddle, but not a grand piano. In the earl's manor, just the opposite. If the campaign has a lot of versimilitude, you might want to take ranks in drum if you have a lot of dwarves in the audience, etc.