Hello, not sure if this is the right place for this but...here goes.
My group is about to start the new adventure path Serpents skull. I was watching the movie Troy the other day and thought to myself, "self what if you made an Achilles like character".
So...my question is...does anyone have any advice for making such a character. I have my stats we rolled 4d6, reroll 1's and drop the lowest.. my stats are as follows....
18
18
17
16
16
15
Great stats I know I was blessed by the pathfinder god's perhaps my guy is the "son of a god?"
Dig up an advanced players guide and look for the fighter variant "phalanx soldier", specializes in spear/polearm fighting with a shield, light armor. He strikes me of more of a Vital Strike/Spring attack style of fighter than anything, with high acrobatics.
Then figure out a way to give him DR. Really good DR, if you can.
If all books ever made where included, i'd drop an 18 in con, bump it to 20 with the human +2, then take Toughness followed by Roll With It from Savage Species over and over :)
As it is you'll just have to simulate his toughness with strong hitpoints and AC.
I'd peg Achilles as the "mobile fighter" variant, not "phalanx soldier." Phalanxes weren't invented until a few hundred years later. ;) In fact, the Leaping Attack ability sounds like it was specifically based on Brad Pitt's favorite attack in Troy. I really liked their take on his "invulnerability," too -- it was just that nobody could land a blow on him. The lucky heel shot crippled him so he couldn't dodge; it was several additional arrows that actually killed him. He was also rather nicely portrayed as Chaotic Evil. >:D
Alternately, I might go with the "weapon and shield" Ranger combat style, plus the "skirmisher" class variant which trades spellcasting for rogue-style tricks. Favored enemy: human, of course. This gets around the attractive nuisance of putting him in heavy armor, which is unquestionably the best option for a fighter but inaccurate to the character.
Please note that many of the fighter variants lose their armor training, making heavy armor much less attractive, for movement purposes alone.
I pegged Phalanx more for the spear and shield style, as well as the overlooked ability to set vs charge as an immediate action.
Please note that many of the fighter variants lose their armor training
Whoops... yeah, totally spaced on that. :)
I'd still go Mobile over Phalanx for the Troy movie version at least (he mainly fought with a sword); it's been far too long since I actually read the Iliad to remember whether he had a particular weapon preference.
There are some neat aspects to the Ranger build, too. The non-animal-companion version of Hunters Bond seems especially appropriate.
Phalanx Solider Fighter 7
Stalwart Defender + Full Plate Adamantium Armor for DR10/- which you'll have at 17th level
Issues
Achilles was in light armor and mobile this build is not ;)
unless you mess around with getting immune to fatigue (allows you to enter and exit defensive stance without penalty to move) from
3 level of horizon walker
or
5 levels of lame oracle
and some extra speed to move at 30 while in heavy armor
but otherwise heavy shield + reach weapon you can threaten both adjacent and 10feet , 15feet with lunge
immune to fatigue (allows you to enter and exit defensive stance without penalty to move)
...unless your GM has a shred of common sense...
immune to fatigue (allows you to enter and exit defensive stance without penalty to move)...unless your GM has a shred of common sense...
no different than immune to fatigue for rage for a barbarian
the barbarian even gets this as part of the class as tireless rage
The issue is not with fatigue immunity, it's with the assumption that you can leave and re-enter an ability measured in "rounds per day," within a single round.
The issue is not with fatigue immunity, it's with the assumption that you can leave and re-enter an ability measured in "rounds per day," within a single round.
guess we'll have to wait for errata then, but surely the easiest answer is if you spend any part of the round in rage/stance then you've used 1 rounds worth even though you might not have used it for the full round
Be a phalanx fighter.
Wear boots of striding and springing with your full plate.
(Or a mithral breastplate.)
Move at full speed.
Profit.
Honestly, I wouldn't peg a phalanx fighter as having a great Dex score unless he was planning on TWFing with his shield too, just to be an arse. I'd imagine a lot of the phalanx fighter's style would be to move up, plant yourself and let your enemies break against you rather than to run at them to get into the thick of it.
but it's not like you'd go stalwart defender. There's a difference between tactically choosing to move or not and placing yourself strategically to block enemy routes, and forcing yourself to be still or face dire penalties. One of which is that the phalanx fighter, with all his glorious mobility, will never begin to weep in a pathetic fashion, drop his weapons and draw a bow to fire from the back of the room.
surely the easiest answer is if you spend any part of the round in rage/stance then you've used 1 rounds worth
No, that's the most convenient answer for your attempt to cheese around the obvious theme of a class feature.
The easiest answer, and the one which makes the functional mechanics consistent with the description, is that you use it in complete rounds. This also happens to be consistent with other abilities measured in increments per day: you always use a full increment. See various domain and school powers where the increment is in minutes for reference.
If you want the highly mobile version of the movie, with instagib-attacks from movement, you COULD also ponder a rogue...
This occurred to me too. The low BAB/HD are what made me pick the ranger (favored enemy is also precision), but I haven't done/seen math yet for all the new variants. Would be interesting to really reanalyze how the rogue stands up now.
surely the easiest answer is if you spend any part of the round in rage/stance then you've used 1 rounds worthNo, that's the most convenient answer for your attempt to cheese around the obvious theme of a class feature.
The easiest answer, and the one which makes the functional mechanics consistent with the description, is that you use it in complete rounds. This also happens to be consistent with other abilities measured in increments per day: you always use a full increment. See various domain and school powers where the increment is in minutes for reference.
You disagree, thats fine , I've yet to see how allowing this creates a broken character. At the moment this is just an RAI argument and means very little since piazo arn't going to come to our table and say "Hey that's not how we intended you to play !"
I've yet to see an arugment past "that's not what they intended", which imho is not a good enough reason not to allow somthing.
If allowing it creates a broketastic chracter who will ruin party balence then thats a reason not to do it. Otherwise the point is mute.
I've yet to see an arugment past "that's not what they intended", which imho is not a good enough reason not to allow somthing.
My argument is "it totally violates the core flavor of the class," which really isn't the same thing as flogging RAI on a mechanical description.
But apologies for getting a bit antagonistic in stating that, and you're absolutely right that if a table wants to shift the flavor to something different, balance-wise there's probably nothing broken about your interpretation.
We should probably stop hijacking this thread. :)
I, uh, am kinda wondering why the "invulnerable rager" barbarian hasn't been mentioned yet.
(Alternatively, for a less Classical and more Brad Pitt version, you might consider the savage barbarian instead.)
Because, honestly, guys? Barbarian all the way. Maybe multiclassed with fighter, but seriously. Barbarian.
We should probably stop hijacking this thread. :)
hehehe agreed :)
Because, honestly, guys? Barbarian all the way.
Y'know, I initially dismissed Barbarian as the wrong flavor; brute force, when Achilles was supposed to be quite skillful as well. But considering the etymology of the word "hectoring," you could definitely have a point there... particularly if you want to use the literal invulnerability version of the character.
Because, honestly, guys? Barbarian all the way.Y'know, I initially dismissed Barbarian as the wrong flavor; brute force, when Achilles was supposed to be quite skillful as well. But considering the etymology of the word "hectoring," you could definitely have a point there... particularly if you want to use the literal invulnerability version of the character.
What he did to Hector was just one example... seriously, Achilles spends basically the entire poem murderously angry about something or other. If you wanted to emphasize the skillfullness, make him a fighter/barbarian multiclass, but I personally wouldn't bother.
...His eyes glowed
Like white-hot steel, and he gritted his teeth
Against the grief that had sunk into his bones,
And every motion he made in putting on the armor
Forged for him in heaven was an act of passion
Directed against the Trojans...
The guy is murderously angry as he's getting dressed.
Barbarian. No doubt about it.
Considering that Hoplite armor is pretty much a breastplate in 3.x/Pathfinder terms, a barbarian would fit pretty well. Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager) X/Fighter (Phalanx Soldier) 4 to use a spear (or longspear) and shield (as well as pick up Weapon Specialization or another bonus feat).
With 18, 18, 17, 16, 16, 15 for ability scores, I'd probably place them:
20 Str (+2 race bonus), 16 Dex, 18 Con, 16 Int, 15 Wis, 17 Cha; +1 in Cha and the remaining advancements in Str (and possibly Con)
Maximum ranks in Intimidate and look at the rage powers Boasting Taunt, Come and Get Me, Fearless Rage, Flesh Wound, Guarded Life, Inspire Ferocity, Intimidating Glare, Knockback, Knockdown, Mighty Swing, Overbearing Advance, Overbearing Onslaught, Powerful Blow, Reckless Abandon, Renewed Vigor, Roused Anger, Strength Surge, and Surprise Accuracy (choose the ones you feel are appropriate) and the Dazzling Display feat chain (with Intimidating Prowess, of course). Leadership is a definite possibility, as well.
