You can't do that with a pit fiend if you use 3.5 rules. They melt, bones and all.Good thing we were talking about Balors, eh?
Reread the thread, there's been talks about doing that with pit fiends too...
Reread Baleful Polymorph. It removes Supernatural abilities above and beyond a generic Polymorph effects' removal of Supernatural abilities based on form.
Right.
Considering that lots of monsters have auras and other weird supernatual powers that emanate from the body, you'd be hard pressed to find someone who'd want them to continue after death for fear of players turning their enemies remains in putrid versions of magic items.
That doesn't sound too unbalancing to me.
Why do you people continue to fall for such transparent troll-bait? Have you no will save modifier?
I've flagged your post for rudeness, just so you know. Calling someone a troll for posing a question after an entire thread of interesting discussion has been developing is itself close to the behavior you deplore.
I've always liked the Black Tentacles, Stinking Cloud, circular wall spell combo, myself.
Hasting allies followed by Slowing enemies is often very nice too.
Dead creatures don't have supernatural abilities.
In this case, Balor never explodes, because the ability triggers when is dead ;)
But I see your point: it triggers whe is DYING - you want to remove it for the moment of his death.
|
Reverse Gravity + Summoned Lantern Archons = Shooting Floating Fish in a Floating Barrel with Floating Gun Drones
Elemental Body II (or greater) + Stinking Cloud (or cloudkill) = Hanging out in Poison Gas, come and get me (also works for Alchemist / Druid / anyone else with Venom Immunity)
Dominate + Slay Living (sure, Will, followed by Fort, but that Rogue is gonna Sneak Attack his own allies for the Wizard for a bit, then "You will not save against this spell" - boom - slain)
Grease + Web = slip & fall, then get stuck in place. Hope you're really strong AND have a good reflex save
Glitterdust + Grease + Stinking Cloud = Will/Ref/Fort, all of which take you out of the fight. Oh yeah, and you sparkle
Invisibility Sphere + Silence = whole party sneaks around, you can't see me! (Wizard also Greater Invisibility's himself for good measure)
Telekinesis + Blade Barrier (works best from summoned critters or your cleric buddy) = Bring Blender, Enemy will Travel. Especially great if you Blade Barrier in such a manner that the enemy has to choose between going through or getting even worse stuff (lava, long falls, prison cells with Kreeg Ogres, etc)
Minor Creation + Telekinesis = Oh yeah, make 20 saves vs. black lotus poison. (best with a Psion/Wilder/Ardent in 3.5...a little tougher in PF, but still doable)
Magic Jar + Sympathy = Win. Bye, bye bad guy, hope you like being a jewel.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Reverse Gravity + Summoned Lantern Archons = Shooting Floating Fish in a Floating Barrel with Floating Gun Drones
Elemental Body II (or greater) + Stinking Cloud (or cloudkill) = Hanging out in Poison Gas, come and get me (also works for Alchemist / Druid / anyone else with Venom Immunity)
I'm looking at the elemental body spells and seeing nothing in there about them making you immune to poison. The spells stipulate which abilities you gain, and that ain't one of em.
Druid with venom immunity works fine, although may have a hard time contributing much to the combat in the middle of the cloud with no LOS to enemies.
Dominate + Slay Living (sure, Will, followed by Fort, but that Rogue is gonna Sneak Attack his own allies for the Wizard for a bit, then "You will not save against this spell" - boom - slain)
Two problems:
1. Slay living doesn't actually kill you any more, except by doing damage.
2. "Obviously self-destructive orders are not carried out," so "You will not save against this spell" would be ignored.
Grease + Web = slip & fall, then get stuck in place. Hope you're really strong AND have a good reflex save
I pulled this one on my players a while back. Good times! Of course, they just burned their way through the web pretty quickly; people always seem to forget that about web.
Glitterdust + Grease + Stinking Cloud = Will/Ref/Fort, all of which take you out of the fight. Oh yeah, and you sparkle
Everything's better with sparkles!
Invisibility Sphere + Silence = whole party sneaks around, you can't see me! (Wizard also Greater Invisibility's himself for good measure)
Inv Sphere is a great underused spell IMO. Very handy. Just make sure you've got enough room for the casters to get away from the fighter/rogue/whomever carrying the silence once the battle starts!
Telekinesis + Blade Barrier (works best from summoned critters or your cleric buddy) = Bring Blender, Enemy will Travel. Especially great if you Blade Barrier in such a manner that the enemy has to choose between going through or getting even worse stuff (lava, long falls, prison cells with Kreeg Ogres, etc)
I got this done TO my character by a marilith in Savage Tide. It might have even been my own blade barrier and the marilith's TK. Thankfully, I had evasion. Otherwise, it mighta been ouch time.
Minor Creation + Telekinesis = Oh yeah, make 20 saves vs. black lotus poison. (best with a Psion/Wilder/Ardent in 3.5...a little tougher in PF, but still doable)
Sinking the points into Craft (alchemy) is certainly worth it for temporary poison creation. You can't do all of em (no monster/mineral poisons, and probably none that are ambiguous about what they're made out of, like "king's sleep" or "oil of taggit" or "tears of death"), but there are enough flower, root, leaf, and moss poisons to make it worth your while. Even if your DM is strict, belladonna, black lotus extract, bloodroot, hemlock, id moss, malyass root paste, sassone leaf residue, striped toadstool, terinav root, and wolfsbane are all unambiguous vegetable matter or derivatives.
The fact that the poison goes away after the spell is only relevant if you were trying to poison a reservoir or something where you need it to hang around. If you're just making a bucket full to dunk someone in, they'll be dead by the time it goes away. It's like eating food (fruits and veggies and grains anyway); by the time it goes away, you've already digested it!
I wonder if an errata will be forthcoming limiting the intrinsic monetary value of things you create with major/minor creation to a certain maximum gp value. Until then, the drinks are on the house!
Magic Jar + Sympathy = Win. Bye, bye bad guy, hope you like being a jewel.
I like it!
I very much like the Sympathy + Magic Jar as well. Very nice combo there Psionic Hamster.
This is actually one of the things I've been wanting to see out of this thread. Creative usage of otherwise relatively simple spells.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
It seems like a standard-issue item for high-level fighters in a wizarding world is going to be a maul of the titans. Since a wall of force (and its derivative spells like resilient sphere/forcecage) now creates an actual force object with hardness 30 and 20 hp/caster level, the maul gives the fighter a rational countermeasure to destroy the inanimate object with a triple damage Power Attack.
Just for fun, best case scenario, let's take a 20th fighter (two-hander archetype)
STR 18 +2 racial +5 level bonuses +5 inherent +6 enhancement +8 size (using a ring of spell storing with giant form II) = STR 44, so STR bonus of +17
STR damage bonus for two-handed is +25 on the first attack of the round, +34 on subsequent iterative attacks (Backswing ability); or, if he's just making one attack, he gets +34 on that (Overhand Chop ability).
the maul is a +3 greatclub so 1d10 (M) > 2d8 (L) > 4d6 (H)
Shattering Strike class ability is +5 dmg vs. objects
Weapon training (hammers) +4*
* (okay, seriously, I'm not going to add Weapon Spec/GWS in greatclub, because NOBODY is taking that; but someone MIGHT take hammers as their first weapon training if they wanted to be Thor-like - so this build is still rational, not completely max-twinked)
Power Attack is -6/+24 (because of the Greater Power Attack class ability at 15th)
We'll assume he's got boots of speed or similar for 1 extra attack per round.
So, he's probably not fighting with the maul most of the time. He has it "sheathed" like any other weapon (yeah, just like that longspear you've got in your pocket, etc. - hey, it's D&D!). Base damage vs. an inanimate object is 4d6 +3 (wpn) +4 (wpn training) +24 (PA) +25/34 (STR)... or 4d6+56/65 (average 70/79) ... all x3 (net of 12d6+210/237)
The WoF/FC/RS pops up.
Round 1: He sheathes his regular weapon, quick draws his maul, and standard action Greater Vital Strikes (4x the base wpn damage, so 4d6 > 16d6, but the extra dice aren't tripled of course) + Power Attack + Overhand Chop for (assume he doesn't roll a 1 to hit) 24d6+237, or an average damage of 321. Deducting 30 for the wall's hardness leaves us at 291, so on average he one-shots any WoF/RS/FC with a caster level of 14 or less, 15 if he rolls slightly above average.
Round 2: Free action activates boots of speed if they're not already going. PA + Backswing gives 12d6+210 (avg. 252) on the first attack of the round, 12d6+237 (avg. 279) on the other 4 attacks.
So, yeah.
The above example is a pretty optimal case, sure, but remember that it only involves *ONE* buff spell, and one that a 20th level fighter with a gazillion gp could easily have on hand.
Heck, even if we dial it down to a mid-teens level fighter, just using an enlarge person and PA, you've got a shot to tunnel your way out of a comparable-level caster's WoF/RS/FC with a full attack, or a VS/IVS standard action plus a full attack. Not a guaranteed get out of jail free card, and not much help if you're a DEX fighter or an archer, but certainly a handy tool if you're a STR-max fighter build.
Of course, it might be cheaper to just get a lesser ring of spell storing with the APG jester's jaunt spell in it, but where's the fun in that? :)
I never understand why pointing out problems in the system is considered trolling on Paizo forums. It really is baffling to me.
I am currently someone that is interested in dabbling in the arcane arts of the Wizard. I originally clicked this thread, titled "Wizard Winning Tactics" thinking to myself "Well, this looks to be a fine place to start. Hopefully it'll be like Treantmonk's guide to Druids, which helped me get into them more."
Reading the first couple of parts of the first posts were admittedly good. I liked the idea of Animate Dead and the other tactics seem pretty good. However, it then came to the mock duel you had for the fighter vs the wizard which changed from a "Here's some tips to play wizards" to "Fighters suck and I just proved it." While I do not know your posting habits (as I only ever post to ask questions about things in Pathfinder), and I never assume anything about a person on the internet, I can understand why some say it seems like troll bait. It really did feel like a bait and switch and this was just a subtle way to rag on the fighter class. I think maybe next time a title such as "Fighter vs Wizard: Why the Wizard Will Win" would have been better. Plus, it would have been good to see a reverse perspective on what the fighter can (or would) do in such a situation.
Personally, as a fighter player, I have done such duels against players running wizards and many times I have done well and won. Your mileage may indeed vary.
Anyways, just my two cents. May you roll high on d20s and roll low on 3d6s.
Lots of fighter stuff
I will have to try that. That is pretty awesome. And I love twohanded fighters.
|
The problem with Animate Dead is (and this is a big one) the fact that you are animating the dead to do your bidding. Now, that sounds like it's nothing but bonus, until you consider that this is a world populated by undead-hating clerics and paladins and wizards and warriors, and that even a lot of regular folks will take issue with you slaughtering other people and raising their corpses as slaves for your undead army.
This is a serious issue for anyone who wants to go into town and buy a bag of holding. It's much more issue for somebody who wants to talk to the duke about a reward for clearing out those pesky ogres, and a terrible issue for someone who wants healing at the temple. Or 'raise dead' even.
Even in most evil societies, making undead out of people is offensive. It can be effective, but it's got some heavy drawbacks.
That doesn't actually work. Conditions outside the Mansion don't affect the inside of the mansion, and emanations from spell effects count as a "condition".So the Wizard is free to escape using any kind of planeshifting magic. He can even dispel or dismiss or let the duration end on his own mansion and most likely be dumped into the Astral Plane or shunted to outside the Forbiddence area. It's a DM call.
When you say it doesn't actually work, you are in essence saying it does actually work. If the wizard is stuck in his Mansion with all his summoned, buffed beasties and no way to escape except Plane Shifting out isn't that a victory for the cleric?
I'd say no.
There were several problems with your plan, and the one I addressed simply means that the Wizard can use any number of spells to escape at his leisure. I mean, Plane Shift is one of the more effective save or dies on top of being a utility spell, so the chances are high that a Wizard has it memorized. The chances that he has Limited Wish memorized are almost 100% considering it's one of the best spells in the game for problem-solving of all kinds, and that can be used to escape.
He can dismiss the effect, which means he gets dumped into the Astral or shunted to outside the Forbiddence. That's a DM call, but neither is a bad plan. At best, you can consider that a draw if he gets dumped into the Astral since it is even odds he'll be near a color pool.
He can also Gate to just outside the Forbiddence area. Chances are very good he'll have this spell since we already talked about calling Balors to use as Animate Dead fodder.
But let's talk about the other problems:
He has to fight the Balor Skeleton which is going to make ten rounds of spellcasting a chore. Protection from Evil protects against summoned creatures, and not called creatures (on top of that, it is highly debatable if a Balor even counts as a called creature after it has been called, killed, and turned into a skeleton with Animate Dead). Summoned creatures and called creatures are two different things, so make note of that in the future because the rules for them are very different.
The Balor Skeleton might or might not be a speedbump, depending on what magic items the Wizard gives it. Considering the high-level we are assuming here, it might have something as exotic as a Antimagic Field in a Ring of Spell Storing which will protect it from Turning, spell effects, and shut down anything a cleric might do.
Basically, the Wizard can keep the cleric very busy during the entire spellcasting time, so it's debatable if he gets any spells off at all.
As for the Time Stop combo, a cleric has a decent chance of escaping that. He can dispel the Cloudkill, summon monsters that can teleport out, or even escape with various spells. This is a fighter killing tactic, and not a cleric killing tactic.
That being said, most tactics that begin with "and then I win Initiative and cast Time Stop" can be considered auto-wins for the Wizard.
|
|
If an AMF encompasses a magically-animated set of demon bones... don't they just collapse into a heap of demon bones? I mean... that seems reasonable to me. And giving a ring of spell storing to your minion, then sending your minion to fight a high-level creature... that seems like a good way to give your enemy a free ring of spell storing.
If your tactics begin with "and then I win initiative", then you have to be a Diviner to really work them. A good wizard can still win if he goes last.
Something I find incredibly useful is the Tiny Hut. You basically give all your comrades total concealment, which is awesome on a dozen levels at least. It's especially fun with ray spells, since you're basically attacking from invisible. And a ranged touch attack from invisible is practically a sure hit. Just make sure to have a Gust of Wind handy for the inevitable cloudkill, and get your friends to spread out so that enemies can't easily enter.
And nobody has yet mentioned Sleet Storm! That's one of the best ever. Going up against an enemy caster? Sleet storm him! Hopefully, one of your friends has 'blind-fight', but if not, that's not a problem, either. Just cast the storm on your enemy and buff all your friends while they slip and slide in the mud. When they finally come out, they'll face a party of enlarged adventurers with Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace... you get the idea.
Who makes undead out of people. Well not counting dread warriors or something of the sort given the book.The problem with Animate Dead is (and this is a big one) the fact that you are animating the dead to do your bidding. Now, that sounds like it's nothing but bonus, until you consider that this is a world populated by undead-hating clerics and paladins and wizards and warriors, and that even a lot of regular folks will take issue with you slaughtering other people and raising their corpses as slaves for your undead army.
This is a serious issue for anyone who wants to go into town and buy a bag of holding. It's much more issue for somebody who wants to talk to the duke about a reward for clearing out those pesky ogres, and a terrible issue for someone who wants healing at the temple. Or 'raise dead' even.
Even in most evil societies, making undead out of people is offensive. It can be effective, but it's got some heavy drawbacks.
I agree. People are among the worse things to turn into undead.
Monsters, on the other hand, are alright. I mean, are there any Manticore Rights activists who are going to complain that you turned one into a zombie? How about various evil outsiders?
If there are, there are always Hats of Disguise for your zombie. "Errrm yeh, all manticores smell like dead bodies."
As for other winning tactics, here are some more:
--Web + Stinking Cloud. The first removes your ability to move unless you take actions, and the other removes all your actions except moves. Win!
--Magic Jar from another room. The spell lets you avoid line of effect when you cast it, so keep your body safe in another room when you cast it and move into a gem you secreted in the location (a perfect job for a teleporting lantern archon you summoned).
--Major Creation: so, you can make metals. Did you know that the metal sodium reacts explosively with water?
Depending on your supplements allowed in game, you can get magical metals with a variety of effects. Thinaun, for example steals souls when killed with it and if you are using the BOVD component rules you can then use those souls as material components, destroying them.
--silent image: it specifically can't make darkness, but it can make opaque fog or flurries of leaves or the like, or even obviously magical things like immaterial glowing butterfly swarms. Perfect for blinding your enemies, and your party can auto-make their saves and see right through it.
--Shrink Item bonfires. The spell specifically says it can shrink fires and turn them into harmless plushies. With a duration in the days, you can shrink several dozen bonfires and then throw all of them at an enemy at one time.
Failing that, shrinking large amounts of holy water or acid are also good fun. Even boulders are hilarious if dropped from a height.
--Gate: Why clear that dungeon or castle when you can open a Gate to the bottom of the ocean or an active volcano?
You're still animating corpses to do your bidding. Lots of clerics will refuse to heal you, lots of druids will conspire against you, paladins and their adventuring parties will seek your downfall...
And the PR campaign against that sort of action is just terrible.
You mean, I might have to have adventures where I get loot and XP? Ooo nooo!
But seriously, any PR problems with animate the dead are just that... PR problems. Any paladins who have a problem with my undead monsters made out of evil monsters can take it up with the villages/cities/nations/worlds I have saved.
I can just wear a Hat of Disguise when I need healing. I'll be like Batman with a secret identity, if Batman made undead manticores and lived in DnD Land.
Even then, I don't see a problem. It's not like the Ogres the Duke hired me to murder are going to bring their grievances to him for my inappropriate undead use.
Monsters, on the other hand, are alright. I mean, are there any Manticore Rights activists who are going to complain that you turned one into a zombie? How about various evil outsiders?
Of course, if those pesky Manticore Rights, and Ogre Rights..and...and..you get the idea...
Anyway, if they are a problem, you could always hire a Bard to create a line of ambulatory office furniture a la Create Wonderous Items and Animate Object.
Don Quiote means so much more if you see him riding a moving office chair into battle.
Whatever you do...beware the coffee machine on watch duty...last time I sneak into a camp. Hot coffee burns the eyes!
About that balor skeleton (if it's even possible)
According to my calculations (might be off, but I doubt by much), the balor skeleton might as well have just stayed a bunny.
CR: 8
AL: Neutral Evil Large Undead (demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init: +12
Senses: darkvision 60 ft., Perception +0
AC: 22
Hp: 90
Fort: +6
Ref: +14
Will: +8
DR: 5/bludgeoning
Immunities: Cold, undead traits
Speed: 30’
Melee: +1 vorpal unholy longsword +27/+21/+17 (2d6+13) or +1 vorpal flaming whip +27/+21/+17 (1d4+7 plus 1d6 fire) or 2 slams +26 (1d10+12)
Space: 10'
Reach: 10' (20' with whip)
Str: 35
Dex: 27
Con: –
Wis: 10
Int: –
Cha: 10
Base Atk: +15
CMB: 28
CMD: 36
Feats: Improved Initiative
Skills: none
Special Abilities: Entangle, Whip Mastery
You might also want to reread how Planar Binding works. You won't be able to pull in either a Balor or a Pit Fiend, both have 20 HD. If you want a demon or a devil, you are stuck with Marilith or Horned at best each of which has a low enough Will save that you could probably get them in the initial trap. You could probably also beat it's SR check to attempt to break free. But then comes the hard part, you don't get to automatically command the called creature to do what you say. You now have to make opposed Charisma checks to get the creature to do your bidding and you can only do that once every 24 hours. With the added bonus that if you roll a 1 on your check the creature breaks free and attacks you.
Mansion + Planar Binding is hardly an automatic win situation. With so many other useful spell combos, I can't see why any wizard would opt for this one unless he's a little bit crazy.
You might also want to reread how Planar Binding works. You won't be able to pull in either a Balor or a Pit Fiend, both have 20 HD. If you want a demon or a devil, you are stuck with Marilith or Horned at best each of which has a low enough Will save that you could probably get them in the initial trap. You could probably also beat it's SR check to attempt to break free. But then comes the hard part, you don't get to automatically command the called creature to do what you say. You now have to make opposed Charisma checks to get the creature to do your bidding and you can only do that once every 24 hours. With the added bonus that if you roll a 1 on your check the creature breaks free and attacks you.
Mansion + Planar Binding is hardly an automatic win situation. With so many other useful spell combos, I can't see why any wizard would opt for this one unless he's a little bit crazy.
Sorry friend, but you seem to be very confused. We never said "Mansion + Planar Binding" anywhere.
We specifically talked about summoning monsters in the Magnificient Mansion, which would mean Summon Monster or Gate for combat applications, or even retrieving and commanding monsters you had Pokemoned in Trap the Soul gems. We weren't explicit, so
I can see the confusion.
The idea is to cast a very large number of these summoning spells so that when you came out of the mansion, your enemy is vastly outnumbered by your buffed army.
I don't think the example even talked specifically about summoning a Balor with Planar Binding. You'd need Gate for that, and we did talk about that in a later post, and also how you could get it to fail a save vs Baleful Polymorph by simply commanding it to do so.
That being said, calling monsters into a Planar Binding trap is not about using the spell to get their service or even to trap them. The spell simply brings them there, and then you have trap present to kill them. Various trap spells exist, but a simple pit trap would suffice for killing most monsters (since you need a surface to call the monster, but it doesn't need to be able to support the weight of the outsider AND the majority of outsiders don't usually have access to feather fall or flight).
At higher levels, planar binding is used to pull demons and other high value monsters from their planes to be used as ideal zombie fodder.
Huh, I guess when you said Planar Binding in the OP I thought you meant Planar Binding. Oh well, my mistake.
It just seems to me that your "I win" situation is VERY convoluted when much easier methods exist.
It may just be my impression but I have to say the Wizard seems to be either nerfed or left behind with each new edition of the game.
I think he\she's obviously weaker than Clerics or Druids at this point.
Both in terms of sheer power and use to the party.
Strategically, I'd always choose a party cleric over a party wizard.
It may just be my impression but I have to say the Wizard seems to be either nerfed or left behind with each new edition of the game.
I think he\she's obviously weaker than Clerics or Druids at this point.
Both in terms of sheer power and use to the party.
Strategically, I'd always choose a party cleric over a party wizard.
I'd disagree that Wizards are the least powerful of the spellcasters.
But, I'd agree that in people's games the Wizard can be the least useful spellcaster simply because the majority of people want to play Wizards as support casters or blasters, both of which are extemely subpar. Add that to a limited spell list, and it's possible to make a very bad spellcaster who never has the right spells and his spells don't do anything that someone isn't doing better.
Blasting is too feat, magic item, and slot intensive, and save or dies are continually nerfed in each new edition, and in general save DCs on monsters go up in each new edition.
But, if the Wizard has a knack for picking spells and plays for battlefield control or something that requires imagination or skill like illusion, they can be among the most powerful of characters.
But I understand if that is not your experience. Wizard is a hard class to play well, and that means most players are not playing it well. Clerics and druids are dead easy in comparison.
I don't get the magic jar/sympathy combo...
...anyways, in no particular order:
patch of LAVA + shrink item = havoc on an enemy sailing vessel
paper airplanes + explosive rune = a great distraction when thrown into a crowd
confetti + LOTS of time + many castings of explosive rune = enemy is trapped in the worst kind of mine field unless he closes his eyes
Stone shape at the lowest caster levels can create hundreds of right cone spikes 5 feet long with a 2-inch radius base (do the math and be amazed).
Fabricate can create a trap as a full round action. Make something elaborate and laugh as it destroys your enemies.
I'm sure I will come up with more given time.
EDIT: Some more...
True Strike + Hydraulic Push + Create Pit/Spiked Pit/Acid Pit = enemy in a hole
+
shrink item + 15x15x15 patch of lava = a great item to put in the above-mentioned hole right atop the trapped enemy (even those immune to fire will be either crushed by the weight or drown in the gunk)
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
I don't get the magic jar/sympathy combo...
...anyways, in no particular order:
patch of LAVA + shrink item = havoc on an enemy sailing vessel
shrink item + 15x15x15 patch of lava = a great item to put in the above-mentioned hole right atop the trapped enemy (even those immune to fire will be either crushed by the weight or drown in the gunk)
A mass of material is not the same as an object, any more than a mass of air or a mass of water.
There are spells that affect a mass of material that is not an object, and it's specifically called out in the spell description. Take, for example, one of the other spells you mentioned, stone shape:
"Target: stone *or* stone object touched, up to... "
SS can affect a stone object, or a mass of stone.
Shrink item does not make offer this versatility; it specifically calls out an object.
*HOWEVER* you could get to the same place by crafting, say, a cauldron, kiln, forge, or smelter, filling it up with burning hot material of the appropriate type (including molten metal, for instance), and then cast shrink item on that (taking the appropriate 2d6 damage for touching something so hot, to make a plushie bomb to use later, turning it upside down and saying the command word to go BLOOF on whomever is underneath it.
P.S. There is a bit of a problem with your math. Shrink item affects only 2 cubic feet/level; to get a 15 x 15 x 15 mass of hot lava would require a 1,688th level caster.
You'd have to be a 14th level caster to even be able to make something 3 x 3 x 3 (27 cubic feet/2 = 13.5, rounded up to 14th level).
All variations of "giant item turned tiny with shrink item" are a product of Didn't Read the Rules. You're not going to be burying anybody... unless you do a whole bunch of em at once and then cast dispel magic (otherwise, having to speak a word of command is a standard action for each spell, even if the literal trigger word is the same - just like you can't trigger 20 wands at once even if every command word is "kaboom"). Still, you'd need 125 3' cube plushies to get to your 15-footer. Not to say it couldn't be done, but we're talking pretty serious resource investment for a one-shot effect.
I mean, dude, you're casting 126 spells (including the DM) to accomplish about the same net effect as a couple of fireballs (much smaller area, but adds the swimming/immersion effect for round-to-round damage). Also, you're hoping nobody dispels YOU while you're carrying them around or while you're getting them out of your BoH/HHH when it's time to throw. Ouch time.
Ah. For some reason I was thinking 2 cubic feet/level meant a 20th-level wizard could effect something that was 40x40x40 feet.
My mistake.
What on earth is the point of shrinking an item that is already so small?
EDIT: Still, you will have a hard time convincing me that I can't shrink lava. Fire is hardly a single object, but a form of chemical reaction/energy and yet you can shrink that.
It's magic and all that.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Ah. For some reason I was thinking 2 cubic feet/level meant a 20th-level wizard could effect something that was 40x40x40 feet.
My mistake.
What on earth is the point of shrinking an item that is already so small?
EDIT: Still, you will have a hard time convincing me that I can't shrink lava. Fire is hardly a single object, but a form of chemical reaction/energy and yet you can shrink that.
It's magic and all that.
EDIT: You can shrink *A* fire, as in, a campfire, a cookfire, a book-burning fire, a burning log... in some, you can shrink a THING that is ON FIRE. The spell does stipulate "a burning fire and its fuel." You can't just take the fire off the top, just like you can't walk up to a wall of fire and say "I'd like to shrink 10 cubic feet of your finest flame, please!" Or a wall of fog and do the same.
If it's solid, it's an object. If it's not solid, it's not an object. Objects in D&D have hardness (even if it's a hardness of 0) and hit points (even if it's only 1).
AND EDIT: Also, the spell doesn't stipulate you can take a piece out of a larger contiguous object; either the whole object fits within the AoE or it doesn't. No fair trying to tunnel your way through a solid wall with it. However, if you were trapped by, say, a cave-in, you could use SI to shrink individual boulders and rocks and might be able to help engineer an escape that way. You MIGHT also get a generous DM to say a mortared wall is made of discrete stones/bricks and let you SI those one at a time; it's a bit of a borderline cause but some would allow it. Not very efficient when stone shape is available a level higher and passwall a level past that.
You can absolutely have a solid CONTAINER that holds something not-solid and still have it count as an object, and the "fire will still be burning" precedent in the spell suggests you can certainly have things burning-hot yet safely stored in plushie form for later use, whether it's a cup of coffee or a barrel of superheated marshmallow goo.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
What on earth is the point of shrinking an item that is already so small?
Sorry, forgot to respond to this. The item spell, as it was called back in the day, was originally put forth as a "carry loot out of the dungeon" spell, from back when coins weighed 1/10 pound each and it was not uncommon to find tens of thousands of them at a time.
You'd have a fighter carry around a bunch of large sacks, fill them chock-a-block full of coins, then reduce them to 1/4000th their original weight. Now a literal *TON* of treasure weighed only half a pound.
Cheaper and more efficient than a bag of holding (especially if you don't have a strong fighter to carry that heavy BoH) and without the "explodes in an extradimensional space" and "if you put something sharp into it, it punctures and dumps your loot into the Astral Plane" dangers of BoHes that are now but a happy memory in the current edition of the game.
That was the main use of it that I saw.
That, and you could use it to carry a dead body and its gear back to town to try for raising. An average human is in the vicinity of 10 cubic feet, so if you're not extra-burly an SI spell can carry your corpse without having to, yknow, CARRY YOUR CORPSE! Handy if you hit wandering monsters on the way back; the fighter doesn't need to drop your moldering remains during the surprise round (or heaven forbid the strong guy IS the deader; good luck having the wizard and the rogue carry you back).
I don't get the magic jar/sympathy combo...
I think the poster meant Trap the Soul + Sympathy, though that is objectively worse than just using Trap the Soul
(still doing a Will save and SR check, but Sympathy is an extra 8th level to cast AND that version of Trap the Soul only affects a pre-decided target).
Reverse Gravity + Summoned Lantern Archons = Shooting Floating Fish in a Floating Barrel with Floating Gun Drones
Elemental Body II (or greater) + Stinking Cloud (or cloudkill) = Hanging out in Poison Gas, come and get me (also works for Alchemist / Druid / anyone else with Venom Immunity)
Dominate + Slay Living (sure, Will, followed by Fort, but that Rogue is gonna Sneak Attack his own allies for the Wizard for a bit, then "You will not save against this spell" - boom - slain)
Grease + Web = slip & fall, then get stuck in place. Hope you're really strong AND have a good reflex save
Glitterdust + Grease + Stinking Cloud = Will/Ref/Fort, all of which take you out of the fight. Oh yeah, and you sparkle
Invisibility Sphere + Silence = whole party sneaks around, you can't see me! (Wizard also Greater Invisibility's himself for good measure)
Telekinesis + Blade Barrier (works best from summoned critters or your cleric buddy) = Bring Blender, Enemy will Travel. Especially great if you Blade Barrier in such a manner that the enemy has to choose between going through or getting even worse stuff (lava, long falls, prison cells with Kreeg Ogres, etc)
Minor Creation + Telekinesis = Oh yeah, make 20 saves vs. black lotus poison. (best with a Psion/Wilder/Ardent in 3.5...a little tougher in PF, but still doable)
Magic Jar + Sympathy = Win. Bye, bye bad guy, hope you like being a jewel.
heh, nice. If you guys want to help me consolidate all orsm spell combos consider posting on this thread
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
As for other winning tactics, here are some more:
--Web + Stinking Cloud. The first removes your ability to move unless you take actions, and the other removes all your actions except moves. Win!
"Anyone moving through the webs must make a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check as part of their move action, with a DC equal to the spell's DC (not that high for a 2nd level spell). Creatures that fail lose their movement and become grappled in their first square of webbing that they enter."
The stipulation that you have to make a regular CMB check or Escape Artist as a standard action only applies if you fail your initial save vs. web.
--Magic Jar from another room. The spell lets you avoid line of effect when you cast it, so keep your body safe in another room when you cast it and move into a gem you secreted in the location (a perfect job for a teleporting lantern archon you summoned).
Lantern archons are handy for moving small things, of which there are a lot in the game. You could use them as your shrink item bomb squad!
--Major Creation: so, you can make metals. Did you know that the metal sodium reacts explosively with water?
So does potassium. And mercury is poisonous. And uranium is radioactive (and so are a ton of other isotopes).
Attempting to interject real world chemistry into D&D is pretty much guaranteed to end in tears. It was funny when Redcloak did it in Order of the Stick precisely because of the absurdity of it. If your DM digs it, go nuts.
Depending on your supplements allowed in game, you can get magical metals with a variety of effects. Thinaun, for example steals souls when killed with it and if you are using the BOVD component rules you can then use those souls as material components, destroying them.
Middle-Earth Role-Playing had an expy for uranium (celeb-something or other, it was Sindarin for "burning silver"). Heck, James Jacobs wrote up "sickstone" in a web article on the underdark for the WotC website. If MC can make adamantine and mithril, however temporarily, it should be able to make any other oddball metals that the campaign world allows.
This, I think, is an absolutely legit use of the spell. If the metal has a defined existence in the game, then you should at least be able to ask your DM to add it to the list of possibilities for "rare metal."
--silent image: it specifically can't make darkness, but it can make opaque fog or flurries of leaves or the like, or even obviously magical things like immaterial glowing butterfly swarms. Perfect for blinding your enemies, and your party can auto-make their saves and see right through it.
Perfect for making concealment, sure. Illusion of a solid, opaque barrier (like a wall)? Sure. Actual blinding? Not likely.
--Shrink Item bonfires. The spell specifically says it can shrink fires and turn them into harmless plushies. With a duration in the days, you can shrink several dozen bonfires and then throw all of them at an enemy at one time.Bonfires? No. Bigger than a campfire, yes, but let's not get crazy. A size Medium fire.
Failing that, shrinking large amounts of holy water or acid are also good fun.
Weight of a gallon of water is (rounding) 8 lbs, so 8 vials of acid/HW per gallon, 7.4ish gallons/cubic foot, so about 60 vials per cubic foot, at 10 gp per flask.
5th level caster makes a 6000 gp acid bomb. Does it do 600d6 damage is the real question.
Similar HW bomb is 15000 gp.
To drop it on someone you need a ranged touch attack with each falling object. If you try to just drop it, they get a DC 15 Ref save for half.
The real question is whether you get to add all the damage, since
Even boulders are hilarious if dropped from a height.Not so much in PF. A 10 cubic foot rock is still only size Medium (arguably only Small, since it's just over a 2-foot cube; if it were a creature it would be Tiny), which per falling objects rules only does 3d6, half damage if it falls less than 30 feet, double damage if it falls more than 150.
If you get high enough level to get a really big rock, it might be a Large object. Which does 4d6. Woo!
It also requires either a ranged touch attack (with a range increment of 20 feet, so throwing it down from 150 feet up would be at -14 to hit, -7 if you have Far Shot) or allows a DC 15 Ref save for half.
If you had your lantern archon bomb squad ready with a gaggle of shrunken rocks you might be getting somewhere.
Well, as long as you have Greater Dispel Magic. Since regular DM only affects a single object and you can't mass dispel your shrinky dinks. The archons aren't the original caster, so they can't use a command word. They could drop them on a solid surface to restore, but then they won't be dropping on anyone. You might be able to rig a platform solid enough to be a solid surface but weak enough to collapse under the combined weight of the stones... but at that point you're probably just making a Craft (trapmaking) check.
--Gate: Why clear that dungeon or castle when you can open a Gate to the bottom of the ocean or an active volcano?Because it might well not do anything.
1. I'm assuming you refer to an ocean or volcano on another plane, cuz that's just how gate rolls.
2. It's a "window looking into the other plane, and anyone or anything that moves through it is shunted to the other side." You could interpret that as:
a. Any substance capable of motion flows through, highest density and pressure wins.
or
b. Anything that passes through requires some intelligent motive force; as in, you can throw/shoot things through, but stuff doesn't automatically bleed through. In sum, conscious action is required.
or
c. The term anyTHING is a catch-all term that is inclusive of creatures (things) vs. people (referred to as 'anyone') - is a nameless red-shirted vrock an anyone or an anything?
Why would anyone believe B or C, though, in light of the quote above? Because in the next paragraph it gives two examples of creatures moving through the gate, in talking about its front and back. Then in the next paragraph it gives another example of creatures moving through the gate, volitionally: "anyone who chooses to step through the portal is transported." Then the next several paragraphs about calling creatures of course, are all about creatures.
In short, every reference in every part of the spell describes creatures moving through the gate. The concept of anything other than a creature moving through the gate is never mentioned anywhere, either explicitly or implicitly, as even a possibility, like "opening a gate to the Elemental Planes is inherently dangerous because of X-and-such damage/effect that will rush through."
Given that the meaning of "anything" is ambiguous in the sentence, in the context of the vast majority of the spell's description that explicitly calls out creatures, the most rational interpretation of the spell's use of the term "anything" is that it is simply used as a counterpoint of humanoid characters (anyone) and creatures of every other type in the universe (anything).
P.S. Yes, the ring gates magic item DO explicitly let you move stuff from here to there and do have the gate spell as a prereq, but everything about their function is radically different from the spell (starting with the fact that they ONLY work on the same plane, which is the exact opposite of the actual gate spell, have a weight limit and a size limit, a maximum range, etc.).
Invisibility Sphere + Silence = whole party sneaks around, you can't see me! (Wizard also Greater Invisibility's himself for good measure)
.
The other night, I was doing a fight with a Greater Basilisk.
That Sphere happened alot.. After using it on itself. It began to cast it on players.. and objects.. Havoc occured very quickly. With the healer being unable to find others.. It just got really hilarious.
The key to being an undead animator is to be discrete about it. Keep your minions self-buried a half-day walk from town, do your business, then retrieve them on your way to the next dungeon.
Undead aren't civilized; no reason to have them on hand at the audience with the king. They're tools; it won't hurt their feelings.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
The key to being an undead animator is to be discrete about it. Keep your minions self-buried a half-day walk from town, do your business, then retrieve them on your way to the next dungeon.
Undead aren't civilized; no reason to have them on hand at the audience with the king. They're tools; it won't hurt their feelings.
All true. Leave em out in the woods; it'd be crazy to bring them into town.
The other key to being an animator, though, is to keep a lot of onyx stones in a wide variety of sizes on hand!
The beauty of animated dead is that they don't eat, sleep, complain, or object to whatever you ask them to do. They're the perfect fungible minions. The downside is that they cost money, and every time one goes down you're out at least 25 gp/HD to replace it, and you don't wanna be wasting money by using too large a stone for a creature's HD, nor be caught without a large enough stone if you find a really juicy creature to animate.
The spell is specific; it requires AN onyx gem; you can't just dump a sackful of 25-gp-size fragments in there and have the spell work. Standard onyx stones only come in 100-gp size, so if your DM is strict about gemstone frequency, just finding 1000 gp onyxes to use on 20-HD skeletons or zombies might become a bit of a chore. It's easy enough to cut gemstones down to size with Craft (gem cutting), but more problematic to find big ones.
More to the point, a lot of your wealth is going to be tied up in onyx inventory, because of the variety of stones you want to keep. If you have a standard skel/zomb model you use, you can tailor your onyx inventory to that, but that doesn't leave you much versatility if you want to go outside the regular and take advantage of the versatility in creatures that animating the dead can provide.
IOW, money that could otherwise be spent on gear and new spells for your spellbook instead has to go into what amounts to replacement parts for your undead army.
If you're adventuring with deaders INSTEAD OF an adventuring party, then it's all win. If you're bringing them along WITH a party, it's gonna start eating into your treasure share. Most parties IME view expenses related to companions, familiars, and other assorted hangers-on as an individual expense (cohort being an exception, usually getting a half-share of what a PC gets for treasure).
The other complication, of course, is that it can be hard to find really good animating material. Sure, you can animate all the people you want, but the best animated dead aren't people-shaped, and if your high-quality undead get whacked, you may have less appealing options for replacement.
Of course, if your DM just lets you keep re-animating the same deader over and over again you're golden, but the spell says the deader has to be "mostly intact, and again IME most rule that a skeleton or zombie destroyed in combat is too damaged to be reanimated (and, by the same token, being destroyed renders it no longer a single object and so no longer subject to make whole). You could try using fabricate to knit the destroyed deader back into wholeness, though that might cross a line between an actual corpse/skeleton (which you can animate) and a construction project that you have pieced together (i.e., no longer a corpse but a reconstruction), which would require animate objects rather than animate dead.
The downside is that they cost money, and every time one goes down you're out at least 25 gp/HD to replace it, and you don't wanna be wasting money by using too large a stone for a creature's HD, nor be caught without a large enough stone if you find a really juicy creature to animate.
I thought this was hilarious in v3.5, where higher end onyx stones simply didn't exist according to the random treasure rules.
This strangeness applied to many other spells of the day as well.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
The downside is that they cost money, and every time one goes down you're out at least 25 gp/HD to replace it, and you don't wanna be wasting money by using too large a stone for a creature's HD, nor be caught without a large enough stone if you find a really juicy creature to animate.I thought this was hilarious in v3.5, where higher end onyx stones simply didn't exist according to the random treasure rules.
This strangeness applied to many other spells of the day as well.
It could have been intentional, a moment of secretly brilliant design meant to prevent PCs from animating uber-monsters and just stick to regular animated mooks.
Then again, the fact that the MM had templates for skel/zom uber-monsters suggests that was rather unlikely.
As for other winning tactics, here are some more:
--Web + Stinking Cloud. The first removes your ability to move unless you take actions, and the other removes all your actions except moves. Win!
"Anyone moving through the webs must make a combat maneuver check or Escape Artist check as part of their move action, with a DC equal to the spell's DC (not that high for a 2nd level spell). Creatures that fail lose their movement and become grappled in their first square of webbing that they enter."
The stipulation that you have to make a regular CMB check or Escape Artist as a standard action only applies if you fail your initial save vs. web.
Right. The assumption is that they fail initial saves vs both spells. Considering the Saves or most monsters you fight at level 5 when you can use this tactic, they probably won't make those saves.
So it's two spells for a "kill every monster in this battle without any cost beyond the two spells" since the Web will most likely keep them locked down long enough get the Stinking Cloud off. I've killed CR 9 dragons at level 6 with this tactic, so I am quite happy with it as a tactic.
The other problem with finding large onyx gems: since there's no valid reason for needing them outside of animating undead, the gems themselves are often highly suspicious items to trade for, if not outright contraband (as they tend to be in my good-aligned societies).
Two notes:
1. People keep talking about the limits of Shrink Item like you can only use one of them at a time. There is nothing stopping you from dropping dozens of objects made into plush by Shrink Item in a single round by upending a bag of them. (As an aside, there is a Transmute Water to Acid spell that is perfect for making large piles of acid, but even Minor Creation can do it too by making plant-based digestive enymes like Venus flytraps possess or that DnD plant monsters have).
I mean, Shrink Item has a duration in days and Rods of Minor Extend are dead cheap. There is no reason why you can't fly over someone and drop two dozen rocks for 3d6 each in a single round (72d6 anyone?).
2. Don't get me started on Onyx. The spell requires you to put it in the eye-sockets of the corpse, but you will seldom be able to put enough onyx into any monsters skull because it won't fit.
I supposed you could get specially crafted Onyx that has value as an art object, but the Necromancer in the know uses one of the many sourcebooks with options for avoiding the issue entirely.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Two notes:
1. People keep talking about the limits of Shrink Item like you can only use one of them at a time. There is nothing stopping you from dropping dozens of objects made into plush by Shrink Item in a single round by upending a bag of them. (As an aside, there is a Transmute Water to Acid spell that is perfect for making large piles of acid, but even Minor Creation can do it too by making plant-based digestive enymes like Venus flytraps possess or that DnD plant monsters have).
I mean, Shrink Item has a duration in days and Rods of Minor Extend are dead cheap. There is no reason why you can't fly over someone and drop two dozen rocks for 3d6 each in a single round (72d6 anyone?).
Sure, you can have lots of shrunken plushies. The limit is not on carrying them, it's on activation.
You can activate one shrunken item at a time with a command word. That means you can drop one item at a time with that method.
If you upend your bag of plushies on top of a bunch of creatures, THEY WILL STILL BE PLUSHIES WHEN THEY HIT THE CREATURES. As diminutive/fine objects of soft cloth, they will inflict NO DAMAGE. They only turn back into their regular items when they hit a "solid surface." Surface =/= creature. The plushie bounces off the creature, lands no the floor, and THEN turns back to its normal shape.
But even if, for the sake of argument, you considered a creature = surface, then the point at which it turns back, it has fallen 0 feet. The first sentence of the falling objects paragraph on p. 443 has a vague implication that items falling objects only cause damage if they fall at least 10 feet (since falling creatures take damage only after 10 feet of falling, and falling objects take the same damage that they inflict, then if a falling object suffers no damage as a result of falling less than 10 feet, it would also inflict no damage).
Ignoring that, if we just say, okay, it DOES do damage when falling, it just falls under the "half damage if less than 30 feet," then in YOUR best case scenario each rock is only inflicting half damage, save for half again. Still potentially 18d6 damage total, not bad, although DR applies to every rock.
Of course, in dropping them, they're still in plushie form and subject to wind effects as the fine/diminutive objects they are.
You can't dispel them all with regular dispel magic because it only affects one object, so the tactic only really works for you when you get GDM at 11th level, because they you can target every object in a 20-foot burst. Of course, you'd really want to have someone ELSE carrying the objects (like your friendly lantern archon, if you can tie a sack to it or something, or just a fiendish hawk or something simple like that) so you don't have to try dropping and casting at the same time and to ensure you get max droppage for good damage.
At that level, now you've really got something, and unlike animating dead, using shrink item on a bunch of rocks doesn't cost anything except spell slots, and it lasts long enough that it's not a big problem.
At 11th level, you use your lesser extend rod to extend, say 2 SI spells a day, so each lasts 22 days. You just devote 2 3rd-level spell slots a day EVERY DAY to keeping your supply of 22 shrunken rocks up to date, plus a 1st-3rd level summons for your flying/teleporting delivery service, plus a 6th level slot for your GDM to spring the trap.
And then, when you actually want to use it, take a round to summon your delivery bot, an undefined amount of time for it to reach the drop zone (the LA works great if you have Augment Summoning, giving it a STR of 5; but even as a small creature with str 1, you really only need it to be able to lift the bag, not really carry it, since it's only going to move by teleporting). Here's your big drop.
Round 1: Begin SM3 (lantern archon). Right before your next turn, LA appears. Have it take a move action to grab the sack of plushies at your belt and a standard action to teleport into position.
Round 2: Cast GDM, rocks fall, everyone dies (hopefully).
To accomplish this, you've spent 3 3rd-level and 1 6th level spell and 2 rounds of actions to do a direct damage effect in one 5-foot square, hoping that your target does not have DR or evasion.
You also have to spend 22 3rd level spell slots to recharge your rock dropper.
Seems balanced to me.
On the subject of "dropping acid" (pun intended), BTW, you might want to look at the "acid effects" rules on p. 442 again. Corrosive acids deal 1d6 points of damage "per round of exposure." The volume of acid doesn't matter unless you are totally immersed. "An attack with acid, such as from a hurled vial or a monster's spittle, counts as a round of exposure." You could drop a pint or a barrel of acid on a creature, but ordinary alchemical acid doesn't inflict damage by volume; it inflicts damage by time of exposure. That damage: 1d6 per round.
Yes, 1d6.
If you dumped a barrel of acid you could probably get the bonus "inhaled poison" side effect, but that lasts only as long as the target stays in the acid. Once it moves away, no continuing acid damage, no continuing poison damage. You drop your vat of acid. They take 1d6 acid damage and make a DC 13 Fort save or take 1 point of Con damage. They they move out of the acid (or it just flows away, since it's liquid). The end. Not much bang for your buck for 6000 gp worth of acid (10 cubic feet).
If your DM lets you synthesize giant sundew enzyme with MiC and call it acid, more power to you, but the MiC spell isn't going to last long enough to accomplish any meaningful storage even if your DM lets you cast SI on the acid you just created. You only get 1 cubic foot/level of it and it only lasts 1 hour per level. Good luck immersing anything in that.
If you can get your enemies into a spot where they can't move and where the acid can't flow away, then you are literally shooting fish in a barrel, but you're going to need a lot of acid plushies (at 5th level, you'd need a dozen of them just to (almost) fill ONE 5-foot cube. Of course, there is this little problem...
A liquid is not an object. See p. 173: "Hardness: Each object has hardness." If it doesn't have hardness (even a hardness of 0, like paper, rope, cloth, and ice), then it isn't an object.
2. Don't get me started on Onyx. The spell requires you to put it in the eye-sockets of the corpse, but you will seldom be able to put enough onyx into any monsters skull because it won't fit.
I supposed you could get specially crafted Onyx that has value as an art object, but the Necromancer in the know uses one of the many sourcebooks with options for avoiding the issue entirely.
I thought we were discussing wizards in Core. My mistake.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Why can't your shrunken items all have the same command word?
They can. But activating AN item with a command word is a standard action. The spell stipulates you must use a "word of command" to deactivate it. What else has a "word of command?" Magic items. "Activate a magic item other than a potion or oil" = standard action. Hold it in your hand, command it to activate. In the game, you can only hold one object in your hand at a time. You could hold a sack of SI items, but then you have the sack in your hand, not the item. You can't activate the sack; it's just a sack. If you want to activate a shrunken item, you have to be touching it.
What's the range of the spell? Touch. Even though you can deactivate the spell with a word, you still have to touch it as you speak. You can't deactivate it from across the room.
It doesn't matter WHAT the command word is. If you go that route, you have to choose, touch, speak, POOF deactivate! Even if you have one of them in each hand, you need to target your deactivation.
Consider: Would you allow a caster to craft two staves with identical command words and activate them simultaneously by speaking one word? Perhaps some would. There was a feat in like Complete Arcane or somewhere called "Dual Wand Wielder" that let you activate two wands a round (though your 'off hand' wand used up double charges if I recall correctly).
You could, of course, argue that all of that magic item talk is a misapplication of precedent. Fine.
When you restore an object to full-size with the spell, either by dropping it on a solid surface or speaking your word of command, you are dismissing the spell effect. Which is also a standard action. For each spell that you dismiss.
Two notes:
1. People keep talking about the limits of Shrink Item like you can only use one of them at a time. There is nothing stopping you from dropping dozens of objects made into plush by Shrink Item in a single round by upending a bag of them. (As an aside, there is a Transmute Water to Acid spell that is perfect for making large piles of acid, but even Minor Creation can do it too by making plant-based digestive enymes like Venus flytraps possess or that DnD plant monsters have).
I mean, Shrink Item has a duration in days and Rods of Minor Extend are dead cheap. There is no reason why you can't fly over someone and drop two dozen rocks for 3d6 each in a single round (72d6 anyone?).
Sure, you can have lots of shrunken plushies. The limit is not on carrying them, it's on activation.
You can activate one shrunken item at a time with a command word. That means you can drop one item at a time with that method.
I suggest you read the spell:
Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster.
Since you can return them to normal size by tossing them, you can drop rains of boulders by emptying bags onto a cutting board or your other hand while you fly around (they then fall from your hands, and onto enemies). Heck, you could could just bury people alive by simply emptying out the plushies and having them turn back into rocks when they hit the ground/enemy. Suffocation damage and cave-in mechanics are brutal.
The word of command probably doesn't work like magic item activation, but luckily it doesn't matter at all.
As for liquids, you can put them into a container for shrinking. It's not even a problem, and if you have enough you get total immersion which counts for 10d6 damage if its acid, unless it's lava which gets to 20d6 for half next round.
Containers of contact poison are probability better though.