Thoughts on giving Sorcerer the Wizard spell progression

[Elfgasm]

Two of my players and very good friends of mine, whose opinions I value greatly and would never call "munchkiners," have recently come to the conclusion that they'd like to see a group house rule that Sorcerers (and Orcales, subsequently) get spell progression at the same rate as Wizards. We're not talking about changing spells known or per day necessarily - just ensuring that spontaneous casters get 3rd level spells at 5th level, instead of 6th.

I'd like to state that I'm entirely objective in this matter. I play spontaneous casters far more than other casters, but I'm also currently GMing our Kingmaker campaign which has two sorcerers in it. I'm simply consulting you wonderful people to see what your knowledgeable opinions are, as my ultimate goal here is allowing my friends to have fun playing while keeping the game relatively balanced.

So. Does this make Wizards and Clerics inferior, or does their overall versatility still make you feel okay about this? Please elaborate and let me know.

[Zorajin]

I would like to know this too. Was hoping someone else would have better answers than me since to me it feels like they're just kicking classes power-gamers call weaker anyway in the face.

[Blueluck]

Spontaneous casters get more spells per day, starting with 3/day when they get a new spell level, where vancian casters start with 1/day. If you're going to make the change, I suggest adding a single spell known and a single spell per day to the spontaneous casters.

[Cheeseweasel]

I'm of the opinion that they signed on for slower progression by choosing Sorcerers. They get so much spell-spamming of the spells that they do know that Wizards are already at a disadvantage in comparison. Bumping the Sorcerers to odd-level advancement would, imo, require SOME buff to the prepared casters. Though I'm not sure what it should be.

TL;DR: Leave it the way it's written; the spontaneous casters have plenty.

[Roberta Yang]

Prepared casters have more spells per day at odd levels, are only slightly behind on even levels, and can make up the difference with items like pearls of power that aren't available to spontaneous casters. You can improve the sorcerer and oracle's progression to not be a level behind wizards and it wouldn't make them overpowered compared to wizards.

It would make the gap between them and martials that much wider, though.

[Kalridian]

Did this with the sorcerer in my game, no balance problems so far. The versatility of the prepared casters makes up for it in my eyes. Never underestimate the power of a wizard who knows what he'll be fighting...

@ Roberta: there is an equivalent to the pearls of power for sorcerers. It costs twice as much though. Cant remember the name at the moment.

[wraithstrike]

I have done this in more than one game I ran. It did not cause any issues. The wizard is still ahead since he knows more spells.

[sciencerob]

I personally don't see a reason to home rule such a thing...

[Marius Castille]

Seems like it would be okay. Also, if no one's playing a wizard in your game, it's not like they'd be stepping on anyone's toes. If there are prepared casters, then everyone has a reason to celebrate when they hit an odd level. Solidarity!

[Mergy]

I don't think there should be a stunted progression for spontaneous spellcasters. Sorcerers are not more powerful than wizards, nor would they be with this change.

[Lord Pendragon]

I think the two classes are balanced as is. Removing one of the disadvantages of the sorcerer requires either a replacement disadvantage, or a commensurate bonus to the prepared casters.

I'd probably wind up giving the prepared casters a sorcerer's daily spell slots. Turnabout, fair play, yadda yadda.

[Dasrak]

Now I'd disagree with that. I find wizard and sorcerer well balanced at the even-numbered levels, but at the odd numbered levels the extra spell level gives the wizard a distinct advantage over the sorcerer. I don't think there's an issue with giving spontaneous casters a matching progression.

[Helaman]

The sorcerers other advantage is adding in Metamagic on the fly - Wizards have to prep their spells using metamagic in advance. At low to low-mid levels thats not such a big deal but mid-high to high levels its a nice advantage...

[LazarX]

If speeding up the sorcerer's spell progression were not a significant powerup, you wouldn't have so many munchkins trying to wangle it from their DM's.

[Helaman]

LazarX wrote:

If speeding up the sorcerer's spell progression were not a significant powerup, you wouldn't have so many munchkins trying to wangle it from their DM's.

:)

[Martin Kauffman 530]

Spontaineous spellcasting and additional spells per day are already major advantages over the wizard class. These are balanced by a more limited spell selection and slower spell advancement. I believe it is best to leave the system as it is, rather than making it cheesier.

[Ascalaphus]

Well, it's a powerup, but that doesn't mean it's bad. If sorcerers are weaker that wizards, then a powerup that doesn't make them stronger than wizards might be OK. (Opinions vary on whether sorcerers are weaker.)

Question though: if a sorcerer has wizard progression, does that mean that the wizard has MORE spell slots than the sorcerer (due to school slots)?

[HaraldKlak]

Why not do the opposite? Give wizards (and other prepared full casters) the sorcerer spell progression.