Listing them by school eats up a lot of space. I'd rather have the page or two of extra spells rather than the slight convenience of having nine different lists per spell level. With Pathfinder's change to "prohibited" schools, it's not as important anyway.
Also, adding labels like "(abj)" and "(div)" after each spell name eats up little or no space.
You're right about this, but I still don't see this as a topic to go all nerdrage over.
I support the desire to see (abj), (div), etc beside spell names on spell lists. Like you said, it doesn't take much space, and it is helpful. I'd actually like to see it on all spell lists, too, not just sorc/wiz. While no other class in Pathfinder has any mechanics that directly interact with spell schools, there are 3.5 classes that do, and there are non-class-based reasons to want to take more or fewer spells from a particular school (Example: If you have Spell Focus in a school, you'll naturally want to pick a higher proportion of your spells from that school, regardless of your class. Another example: Clerics and Inquisitors of Pharasma might want to be wary of which Necromancy spells they cast).
I felt the need to nerdrage about this topic before Ultimate Magic went to the printer, because I absolutely want and expect to see school labels on the sorcerer/wizard spell list in that book.
A good recommendation I think for this book would be to include a list of all spells (a spell index if you will) from all Pathfinder sources, maybe as an appendix, with school listed and book source as well.
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Just export the spells database to CSV, open in Excel and put an Autofilter on the column headers.
Oh, great idea. Just pay $300+ for MS Office so that you can use Excel to filter data... :(
(Sigh.)
You could just choose the school name from the dropdown filter on the d20pfsrd.org site itself and let GoogleDocs do the work. Or not.
It's unfortunate that the table format doesn't allow for generic text to be entered to filter the rows. Or at least, I looked for that on the page but didn't see it anyway.
Just export the spells database to CSV, open in Excel and put an Autofilter on the column headers.Oh, great idea. Just pay $300+ for MS Office so that you can use Excel to filter data... :(
Or use OpenOffice, Google Docs, or any number of other free options to do the same thing. Mr. de Chevalier's helpful suggestion isn't invalid simply because some people don't have Microsoft's name brand spreadsheet program. I don't.
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A good recommendation I think for this book would be to include a list of all spells (a spell index if you will) from all Pathfinder sources, maybe as an appendix, with school listed and book source as well.
How about a free PDF from Paizo, updated now and then to have the combined spell lists, with schools?
Or use OpenOffice, Google Docs, or any number of other free options to do the same thing. Mr. de Chevalier's helpful suggestion isn't invalid simply because some people don't have Microsoft's name brand spreadsheet program. I don't.Just export the spells database to CSV, open in Excel and put an Autofilter on the column headers.Oh, great idea. Just pay $300+ for MS Office so that you can use Excel to filter data... :(
Or wait for IMarvinTPA to add the spells to his super-duper extra-awesome Pathfinder spell filter. It's my personal favourite.
How about a free PDF from Paizo, updated now and then to have the combined spell lists, with schools?
A good recommendation I think for this book would be to include a list of all spells (a spell index if you will) from all Pathfinder sources, maybe as an appendix, with school listed and book source as well.
Or just add it to the PathfinderWiki. :)
Or wait for IMarvinTPA to add the spells to his super-duper extra-awesome Pathfinder spell filter. It's my personal favourite.
And / or Perram's Spellbook. Also excellent.
Edit- Can't filter by school, but they'll appear in different colors.
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Or just add it to the PathfinderWiki. :)How about a free PDF from Paizo, updated now and then to have the combined spell lists, with schools?
A good recommendation I think for this book would be to include a list of all spells (a spell index if you will) from all Pathfinder sources, maybe as an appendix, with school listed and book source as well.
I think Yoda's said that crunchy stuff like this is more suited to d20pfsrd.com
any other possible sources people want to list? ;)
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I support the desire to see (abj), (div), etc beside spell names on spell lists. Like you said, it doesn't take much space, and it is helpful. I'd actually like to see it on all spell lists, too, not just sorc/wiz... there are non-class-based reasons to want to take more or fewer spells from a particular school...I hadn't even thought that. But now that you mention it, I think I would like to see those little labels on every spell list.
+1 on this.
Would also make it useful for spell research and crossover. "I'm a specialist wizard, I want to make more spells for my school, stealing from the cleric list..."
I support the desire to see (abj), (div), etc beside spell names on spell lists. Like you said, it doesn't take much space, and it is helpful. I'd actually like to see it on all spell lists, too, not just sorc/wiz... there are non-class-based reasons to want to take more or fewer spells from a particular school...I hadn't even thought that. But now that you mention it, I think I would like to see those little labels on every spell list.+1 on this.
Would also make it useful for spell research and crossover. "I'm a specialist wizard, I want to make more spells for my school, stealing from the cleric list..."
Are there not some traits that give save bonuses, but only against specific schools of spells (not to mention the elven racial ability)?
It would also be usable for with the Improved Counter Spell feat where it only needs to be the same school.
I don't think this is the biggest deal in the world and it's really not worth getting worked up over. But I must confess that I was disappointed to see that sor/wiz spells where not subcatogorized into their schools. Is it super important? No. But it does make things more covenient.
Was it a mere oversight? A deliberate decision on Paizo's part given the limited number of spells? An expiriment to see how people felt about it?
In the end it doesn't really matter. I for one will politely encourage Paizo to list sor/wiz spells the "classic" way in future products, encourage others to do the same and be done with it.
Also, adding labels like "(abj)" and "(div)" after each spell name eats up little or no space.You're right about this, but I still don't see this as a topic to go all nerdrage over.
What exactly constitutes a nerdrage? I mean, if you just didn't like something in the APG are you nerdraging? Do you have to write something for it to be a nerdrage? Does it need to be 1 sentence? A paragraph?
Anyhow- Part of what makes Paizo great is that they listen to what is being said on the forums by the people that are buying these products. They tailor this game to our desires and make it balanced. Having the spells not listed by school is a perfectly valid complaint that they should be aware of. That doesn't mean that they will print by school from now on, it just means that they know that some portion of the people buying these books prefer to have spells listed by school. Like myself.
Spreadsheets are great for people that want to put the time and effort into a spreadsheet. I don't. I want to sit down and play Pathfinder, and I really don't want to have to carry a netbook around with me and a 350 page hard-back book. While on the subject of the number of pages in a book, would the cost of 2 extra pages- if it even would have amounted to that many pages, I would really like to see how much room the 8 schools of magic printed 9 times takes up in the font they used etc- been so extreme?
So- Paizo, please go back to printing the spell lists by level and school.
While I would prefer to see indicators for the schools of spells in the spell lists, especially the sorcerer/wizard spell lists, after the last couple weeks I can't really condone a thread that uses "WTF" to punctuate the point. Recently it seems like it has been used every time wants to register complain about something in the APG. I don't want to come near suggesting that one shouldn't complain about things you don't like, but those exclamations detract from the posts rather than aid them.
While I would prefer to see indicators for the schools of spells in the spell lists, especially the sorcerer/wizard spell lists, after the last couple weeks I can't really condone a thread that uses "WTF" to punctuate the point. Recently it seems like it has been used every time wants to register complain about something in the APG. I don't want to come near suggesting that one shouldn't complain about things you don't like, but those exclamations detract from the posts rather than aid them.
Exactly. It wasn't the complaints, it was the opening and ending with "What the ####?".
That is a fair point to make I suppose. The titles of threads rarely mean much to me. I look for what it's going to be about and WTF has become so heavily used in the on-line vocabulary that I don't pay much attention to what it actually means.
With the addition of elemental 'schools' shouldn't the energy type of the spell also be summarized for those elemental Mages and Sorcs?
Points noted.
Creative Director
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Yup; as SKR says, we've heard the complaint, and we'll keep it in mind for future books.
But if we had presented the sorcerer/wizard spells on page 198–199 broken down by school, I estimate that those spell lists would have taken up about another page and a half. Which would have meant cutting a page and a half of spells, which at that point in our production cycle would have opened up, for me, an unacceptable opportunity to have some REALLY major errors in the book (such as spell lists with spells that aren't in the book, or other issues).
We'll strive to present spell lists for sorcerer/wizards broken down by school in future books like "Ultimate Magic," but that's not something we'll really be able to change in the Advanced Player's Guide at this point (or in future printings of the book, really).
Sorry if that explanation disappoints, but I'd rather be writing THIS messageboard post than explaining why a page and a half worth of spells are missing from the book!
Yup; as SKR says, we've heard the complaint, and we'll keep it in mind for future books.
But if we had presented the sorcerer/wizard spells on page 198–199 broken down by school, I estimate that those spell lists would have taken up about another page and a half. Which would have meant cutting a page and a half of spells, which at that point in our production cycle would have opened up, for me, an unacceptable opportunity to have some REALLY major errors in the book (such as spell lists with spells that aren't in the book, or other issues).
We'll strive to present spell lists for sorcerer/wizards broken down by school in future books like "Ultimate Magic," but that's not something we'll really be able to change in the Advanced Player's Guide at this point (or in future printings of the book, really).
Sorry if that explanation disappoints, but I'd rather be writing THIS messageboard post than explaining why a page and a half worth of spells are missing from the book!
What happens, hypothetically speaking, if you go over the page count by 1-3 pages? I know much to nothing about publishing, and it may be a much bigger deal than it seems to be.
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What happens, hypothetically speaking, if you go over the page count by 1-3 pages? I know much to nothing about publishing, and it may be a much bigger deal than it seems to be.
My understand is that book printing is done in 16 page blocks. It has something to do with the printing process. So you can't add an extra page or two, you need to add 16 pages.
Adding 16 pages affects pricing and also means that you need content to fill the rest of those pages.
Yes, I am not too sure about the necessity of keeping such a strict page count?
I mean I know with your thinner, paperback books you keep an exact count (like the 64 pages for the Chronicles books). But I would rather you make the book as long as needed for the nicer hardcovers.
I understand you can't go hog wild with adding pages as it ups the price, but if it's only a couple extra pages out of a book of 300+, then just add them, don't cut anything.
Edit: Ok, sieylianna got the response out before I sent my message. Well, that's too bad if it works like that.
Yeah, the Core Rulebook, APG, and GMG all have page counts (counting the ad in the back) divisible by 16, although the Bestiary's only divisible by 8, not 16.
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6353460/APG%20Sor_Wiz%20Spells%20by%20School.txt
Here's the list, sorted by level and then by school. Got tired of people complaining about it, so I just did it myself.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6353460/APG%20Sor_Wiz%20Spells%20by%20School.txt
Here's the list, sorted by level and then by school. Got tired of people complaining about it, so I just did it myself.
I'll have to check this out when I get home. Thanks in advance for the effort.
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Yes, I am not too sure about the necessity of keeping such a strict page count?
I mean I know with your thinner, paperback books you keep an exact count (like the 64 pages for the Chronicles books). But I would rather you make the book as long as needed for the nicer hardcovers.
I understand you can't go hog wild with adding pages as it ups the price, but if it's only a couple extra pages out of a book of 300+, then just add them, don't cut anything.
Edit: Ok, sieylianna got the response out before I sent my message. Well, that's too bad if it works like that.
The reason for the 16 pages is that those are what are bound in to the cover> If you look closely, you'll see that there are threads done the end, that hold in the pages. These hold in 16 pages each.