Well there goees another $40.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I guess that provides additional justification for the title "Ultimate Magic".
I wonder if there will be any other ultimate books. Ultimate Non-Combat? Ultimate Skills? Ultimate Utility?
However, I must say that I fear the eventual reboot of these books, and therefore think they should actually be called Penultimate Magic, Combat, etc.
Well there goees another $40.
+1! ~grins~ I love it. Between the APG, the UM, and the UC, most character options will be covered. Now, if only they would do something for the poor rogues out there.
I guess that provides additional justification for the title "Ultimate Magic".
I wonder if there will be any other ultimate books. Ultimate Non-Combat? Ultimate Skills? Ultimate Utility?
However, I must say that I fear the eventual reboot of these books, and therefore think they should actually be called Penultimate Magic, Combat, etc.
~shakes my head~ Sebastian, your whining will not work. The fine people over at Paizo refuse to do an Ultimate Pony book.
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Well there goees another $40.+1! ~grins~ I love it. Between the APG, the UM, and the UC, most character options will be covered. Now, if only they would do something for the poor rogues out there.
While I don't expect to see a bunch of skill-related stuff in UC, I would think that rogues would get a bit of love in UC.
Well there goees another $40.Was there any doubt it would go?
Not ever.
Although I like explaining to my girlfriend that i have basically spent $120 on things that as far as i know don't have a physical form yet. Actually my girlfriend is very supportive of my Paizo addiction, technically she's the one that got me hooked (got me the Core Rulebook).
I actually like that they're not trying to split the catagories too much. Like WotC did by splitting divine and arcane magic in the complete series.
I actually like that they're not trying to split the catagories too much. Like WotC did by splitting divine and arcane magic in the complete series.
Yea but at the same time there is some order to it. If i want to find stuff for my Big Stupid Axe Swinging guy, I am probably not looking in ultimate magic. Though my magus will almost certainly be drawing from both...damnit...its like saga edition all over again...*hides*
In case anyone didnt realize that was meant to be humorous, I would be very surprised if paizo managed to match wizards scattered insanity that came along with saga edition.
Yea but at the same time there is some order to it. If i want to find stuff for my Big Stupid Axe Swinging guy, I am probably not looking in ultimate magic. Though my magus will almost certainly be drawing from both...damnit...its like saga edition all over again...*hides*
In case anyone didnt realize that was meant to be humorous, I would be very surprised if paizo managed to match wizards scattered insanity that came along with saga edition.
To be fair, if Pathfinder was following Saga's example, there probably would be some warrior options in Ultimate Magic, using the same logic that Wookiee Grip appears in Galaxy of Intrigue . . .
To be fair, if Pathfinder was following Saga's example, there probably would be some warrior options in Ultimate Magic, using the same logic that Wookiee Grip appears in Galaxy of Intrigue . . .
Yea but at the same time there is some order to it. If i want to find stuff for my Big Stupid Axe Swinging guy, I am probably not looking in ultimate magic. Though my magus will almost certainly be drawing from both...damnit...its like saga edition all over again...*hides*
In case anyone didnt realize that was meant to be humorous, I would be very surprised if paizo managed to match wizards scattered insanity that came along with saga edition.
I spent more time creating spreadsheets and word documents of the randomly placed info in Saga then I did playing it.
I spent more time creating spreadsheets and word documents of the randomly placed info in Saga then I did playing it.To be fair, if Pathfinder was following Saga's example, there probably would be some warrior options in Ultimate Magic, using the same logic that Wookiee Grip appears in Galaxy of Intrigue . . .
Yea but at the same time there is some order to it. If i want to find stuff for my Big Stupid Axe Swinging guy, I am probably not looking in ultimate magic. Though my magus will almost certainly be drawing from both...damnit...its like saga edition all over again...*hides*
In case anyone didnt realize that was meant to be humorous, I would be very surprised if paizo managed to match wizards scattered insanity that came along with saga edition.
Would you be willing to share them? Cuz mine are only like half done, the books are spread out within my group and i havent been able to gather them all up long enough to create the sheets. And it hurts every time i need to make a character, let alone when i try to help the 2 members of our group new to gaming try to make one.
Would you be willing to share them? Cuz mine are only like half done, the books are spread out within my group and i havent been able to gather them all up long enough to create the sheets. And it hurts every time i need to make a character, let alone when i try to help the 2 members of our group new to gaming try to make one.I spent more time creating spreadsheets and word documents of the randomly placed info in Saga then I did playing it.To be fair, if Pathfinder was following Saga's example, there probably would be some warrior options in Ultimate Magic, using the same logic that Wookiee Grip appears in Galaxy of Intrigue . . .
Yea but at the same time there is some order to it. If i want to find stuff for my Big Stupid Axe Swinging guy, I am probably not looking in ultimate magic. Though my magus will almost certainly be drawing from both...damnit...its like saga edition all over again...*hides*
In case anyone didnt realize that was meant to be humorous, I would be very surprised if paizo managed to match wizards scattered insanity that came along with saga edition.
Sure drop me an e-mail at talinthlas at msn dot com
My prayers are answered!! Time for those who don't use the crutch of spellcasting to get some PF-focused love!
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I hope that UC includes and expanded/revised section for medium-to-large scale mass combat, building up from the basics seen in PF #35.
I also dream of a skirmish-like management system for small scale battles or specific operations, such as that seen in the 3.5 book Heroes of Battle, but it's just a pet peeve.
Hey, that would be enough to change the title to Ultimate Warfare, maybe.
Good to hear that both books will involve a thematic support to oriental campaigns.
More monk fighting styles!
The panel including James Jacobs, Sean REynolds, and Bulhman confirmed the following:
UC and UM will contain love for Rogue types (there will be no "Ultimate Skill Monkey" as skills are a tertiary mechanic that all character types should be able to leverage).
The ninja will use sneak attack because the other sneak attack types from earlier editions were dumb.
Core core classes beyond the Magus are VERY UNLIKELY but the Mags will be available for playtest soon as will the words of power non-vanecian magic system. Focus will be on alternative class Archetypes such as in the APG. Let's face facts: the Ninja is a frickin Rogue.
There will be a magic dueling system (with a counterspelling phase) in UM and possibly a martial dueling system in UC (with parries and such).
UC will definitely contain mass combat rules but what form they will take is completely up in the air at the moment. One key concern is making PCs relevant and survival in such a system. along with mass combat will come more rules for siege engines and the like.
And Jason did say that the mass combat, in his opinion, should be versatile enough to handle both skirmish and regimental scale battles.
My prayers are answered!! Time for those who don't use the crutch of spellcasting to get some PF-focused love!
I'm with you. I think there is too much spell casting stuff
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Core core classes beyond the Magus are VERY UNLIKELY but the Mags will be available for playtest soon as will the words of power non-vanecian magic system. Focus will be on alternative class Archetypes such as in the APG. Let's face facts: the Ninja is a frickin Rogue.
There will be a magic dueling system (with a counterspelling phase) in UM and possibly a martial dueling system in UC (with parries and such).
UC will definitely contain mass combat rules but what form they will take is completely up in the air at the moment. One key concern is making PCs relevant and survival in such a system. along with mass combat will come more rules for siege engines and the like.
*does the happy dance*
If they are putting in asian themes, I do hope they put in either full classes, or class kits for Ninja, Samurai, Horse Soldier, and Shaman.
Granted, most of these can be covered with a page or two of fluff and a few tweaks to existing classes :
Ninja : Rogue (Obviously)
Samurai : Fighter and Paladin (yes, I would like to see a paladin specific variant, someone who fights for the Emperor of Heaven Incarnate).
Horse Soldier : Cavalier (Specific cavalier groups, a few tweaks)
Shaman : Druid or Cleric or even Sorcerer. However, a true shaman from asian myth is really kind of a mix of all 3, so a specific 'spell list' might be better, sort of like the witch, with a mix of divine/druidic/arcane.
I'm hoping that if the asian thematic crunch is being put out in UM and UC, then BII or BIII will have asiatic themed monsters (I'm guessing BIII).
I love the idea of creating "asian" themed classes using alternate class featurs ala the APG. I have to agree that the Ninja classes of previous editions, and others like the Samurai were needless.
Maybe we'll get a more robust system for Martial Arts styles too!
I wonder if this will be the type of release schedule we can expect each year going forward? Dealing with a broader theme in the hardbacks. 2011: Asian Theme, then in future years Psionics, and Epic?
Color me very interested in words of power, because I've never like Vancian casting in ANY edition of D&D. I don't mind the limitations based on slots, but I hate the idea of "memorize before hand, and then forget".
They said that there WILL be rules for playing Ninja and Samurai. They also said the Magus is likely to be the last base class for a while. I think we can surmise that they will be Archetypes.
As far as the Shaman goes, I guess it depends on what you mean by that. Clerics and Druids, especially with the APG options can make amazing Shaman. Heck, the Alchemist, Oracle, and Witch could also be built with a Shamanistic feel. Right now if I were to make a Shaman, it'd probably be a Cleric with the Plant domain and Ancestors subdomain.
Having said that, I have no doubt that the faithful of that setting will get the full treatment, we just don't know what shape it will take.
They did say they wanted to do a bunch of cool martial arts styles but they'd need a lot of good consultation from real martial artists first. Jason did mention something about the style you learn determining your bonus feats and whatnot, though that seemed slightly noncommittal which isn't surprising considering how far away the book is.
I guess what's most important to note is there was ZERO talk of maneuvers and stances.
Let's face facts: the Ninja is a frickin Rogue.
Please, not this debate again. I, for one, believe the Ninja (and Samurai) are deserving of FULL classes.
I personally see the Samurai to be more of the fantasy Samurai, with ki powers and sword techniques and supernatural combat abilities along with more traditional Samurai training.
The same with Ninja. I enjoyed the Ninja WotC provided, though I believe there could've been more done with it. The Ninja should be more in line with the way the Monk class is, except minus the Monk enlightenment stuff and more Ninja stuff, like kuji-kiri and enhanced stealth. A super Monk/Rogue mix without being either.
I really hope Paizo doesn't skimp out on making those two full classes, they deserve to be! It's just not the same putting Fighter down and saying "He's a samurai". It's very cheap.
Let's face facts: the Ninja is a frickin Rogue.
Please, not this debate again. I, for one, believe the Ninja (and Samurai) are deserving of FULL classes.
I personally see the Samurai to be more of the fantasy Samurai, with ki powers and sword techniques and supernatural combat abilities along with more traditional Samurai training.
The same with Ninja. I enjoyed the Ninja WotC provided, though I believe there could've been more done with it. The Ninja should be more in line with the way the Monk class is, except minus the Monk enlightenment stuff and more Ninja stuff, like kuji-kiri and enhanced stealth. A super Monk/Rogue mix without being either.
I really hope Paizo doesn't skimp out on making those two full classes, they deserve to be! It's just not the same putting Fighter down and saying "He's a samurai". It's very cheap.
You are the one starting the debate
The Samurai and ninja fan boys are going to argue this for years.
Paizo has a plan not to have a lot of differnt base classes but alot of Archtypes instead this way you can do two or three differnt styles of ninjas and Samurai's
My two cents on Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, etc.: I hope Paizo doesn't get "rulebook fatigue". I already have my suspicions that books like "Orcs of Golarion" and "Halflings of Golarion" are scraping the bottom of the barrel a little when it comes to campaign books.
I like what I am hearing. I would prefer to see Archetypes used more so than new classes.
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My two cents on Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, etc.: I hope Paizo doesn't get "rulebook fatigue". I already have my suspicions that books like "Orcs of Golarion" and "Halflings of Golarion" are scraping the bottom of the barrel a little when it comes to campaign books.
They already said that there won't be "Ultimate Skill Monkey", so it's hopefully the end of generic rulebooks and 2012 will about psionics/epic/planar/else.
Paizo has a plan not to have a lot of differnt base classes but alot of Archtypes instead this way you can do two or three differnt styles of ninjas and Samurai's
And hopefully poach for things other then those two. Like various Chinese legend inspired characters.
There really is nothing that I can think of for either that couldn't be done as a feat or as an alternate archetype class ability.
You could even go so far as to make the Archtype apply to several different classes. Ninja, both rogue and monk, possibly ranger? Samurai into fighter, paladin, and cavalier.
My two cents on Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, etc.: I hope Paizo doesn't get "rulebook fatigue". I already have my suspicions that books like "Orcs of Golarion" and "Halflings of Golarion" are scraping the bottom of the barrel a little when it comes to campaign books.They already said that there won't be "Ultimate Skill Monkey", so it's hopefully the end of generic rulebooks and 2012 will about psionics/epic/planar/else.
Well, it's just my opinion of course, but I consider epic/planar/else to be on the verge of scraping the bottom of the barrel. (I make an exception for psionics, but I'm not convinced that Paizo would make a version that I like.) They're kind of niche subjects, à la orcs and halflings.
I don't think paizo will make their decision based on whether the classes DESERVE a full class or not, but by whether one is needed and I think it's quite reasonable to have the opinion that it does not. Unless, of course, you want to disguise a block of wood as yourself or whatever.
Then again, just play a sneaky Bard IMO.
I still the shaman should have no spells but instead toteem powers
You are the one starting the debate
The Samurai and ninja fan boys are going to argue this for years.
Paizo has a plan not to have a lot of differnt base classes but alot of Archtypes instead this way you can do two or three differnt styles of ninjas and Samurai's
That's what prestige classes are for if someone is concerned about specific types of ninja or samurai. There has to be an all-around generic brand.
Using alternate feature or archetype route is still cheap. If WotC can pull off a decent Ninja, than I am sure Paizo can pull off a better one. I do not know one player that has never winced when someone tells them to make a Rogue but put down "Ninja" instead. Cosmetic changes don't make the class.
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You are the one starting the debate
The Samurai and ninja fan boys are going to argue this for years.
Paizo has a plan not to have a lot of differnt base classes but alot of Archtypes instead this way you can do two or three differnt styles of ninjas and Samurai's
That's what prestige classes are for if someone is concerned about specific types of ninja or samurai. There has to be an all-around generic brand.
Using alternate feature or archetype route is still cheap. If WotC can pull off a decent Ninja, than I am sure Paizo can pull off a better one. I do not know one player that has never winced when someone tells them to make a Rogue but put down "Ninja" instead. Cosmetic changes don't make the class.
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WotC ninja sucked goat balls major time. Maybe not on the same level as Truenamer and Samurai, but it still was one of the weakest classes of 3.5.
Archetype route is not "cheap". Prestige Class means that you have to:
a) build your char according to the entry reqs.
b) wait 5 levels of Rogue until you finally become a Ninja
I'd rather be a Ninja from level 1 and not have to worry about anything. If it will be a base class - fine, but seeing what was done in APG I can go with an archetype as well.
Honestly, I can't think of a single classic Ninja from history that can't be accomplished with the current classes and options.
As far as having a Ninja as a full class I disagree. Ninjas are not just something you can be because you grew up in a rough part of time. It takes training to be one and it requires you to be specialized. I would much rather see it as a PrC than a base class because thematically it would make more sense. But then, of course, you wouldn't be able to be a Ninja from level one, not that is a bad thing.
Honestly, I can't think of a single classic Ninja from history that can't be accomplished with the current classes and options.
It is the fantasized version of ninjas (the leaping, the shadow vanishing, etc.) that is harder to replicate.
It is the Ghost abilities of the WotC ninja that the most troublesome to replace, being that classes core feature. Everything else on the class look either like it would make a good PF rogue talent or was already done as a feat during 3.5's WotC publishing cycle.
I don't think Paizo should concern themselves with trying to copy the old WotC Ninja but to emulate the real ninja or ninja myth. That can be done with an Archetype.
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As far as having a Ninja as a full class I disagree. Ninjas are not just something you can be because you grew up in a rough part of time.Unlike, say, Paladins or Wizards. :)
Yah. While I think Paizo did a bang up job with differentiating the latter with Sorcerers, it could have been done with archetypes.
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My two cents on Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Combat, etc.: I hope Paizo doesn't get "rulebook fatigue". I already have my suspicions that books like "Orcs of Golarion" and "Halflings of Golarion" are scraping the bottom of the barrel a little when it comes to campaign books.
Nah. That was Elves of Golarion. ;-(