Actually, the clutter kinda helps with concealing the awfulness of its original drift.
A Man in Black Speaks
Hurry! Attack his nature!
Don't like? Don't listen!
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Probably shouldn't add to this thread, but... I have a hard time imagining that someone could be so disappointed in the APG in the manner expressed by the OP and yet they were satisfied enough with the Core Rulebook that they kept playing the game to the extent that they were interested in getting their hands on the APG.
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Probably shouldn't add to this thread, but... I have a hard time imagining that someone could be so disappointed in the APG in the manner expressed by the OP and yet they were satisfied enough with the Core Rulebook that they kept playing the game to the extent that they were interested in getting their hands on the APG.
Now this, I wholeheartedly agree with.
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Speaking of Poe,
Cracked.com wrote:
#6.Business: Success = Meeting the Right People
All of those successful people you see around town, with their convertibles and huge televisions? Approximately 100 percent of them got where they are because they had three things. All three are absolutely essential, but one of them is almost never mentioned. They are:
* Talent
* Hard Work
* Randomly Meeting the Right People and Not Pissing Them Off
The autobiographies of famous people will do everything they can to downplay that third part, because it has the element of sheer luck. People get offended when you mention it, because they think it somehow undermines the first two. But remember, we said you need all three.
For instance, let's take maybe the most successful movie actor of all time, Harrison Ford. He farted around Hollywood for nine years, taking bit parts without anything major ever coming his way. Clearly talented, very hard-working. Yet not once did anybody look at him and say, "This guy will sell several billion dollars' worth of tickets and action figures some day!" He was just another ambitious, pretty face, in a city full of them. He got so fed up, he quit acting and became a carpenter.
There's a parallel world without this man as Han Solo, and we don't want to live there.
Then one day he got hired to install cabinets in the home of a guy named George Lucas. They became friends. That got him the role of Han Solo a few years later. Click the link; that's a true story.
Decades earlier another Ford, Henry, was just one of many engineers screwing around with early car engine designs until he became friends with a wealthy businessman named Alexander Malcomson who forked over the money to get Ford Motor Company started. This also works for guys not named Ford; Justin Bieber was one of several hundred thousand teenagers singing on YouTube videos before a former record exec named Scooter Braun clicked on one of his videos by accident and got him a record deal.
But everyone already knew he was an accident.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have guys like Edgar Allan Poe, whose legendary poem "The Raven" earned him... nine dollars. He burned so many bridges he wound up basically begging the public for money before dying at 40.
At some point Poe probably met his George Lucas, but made such a horrible impression on him the guy wouldn't return his calls.
"Oh, shit, honey, he's at the door! Pretend we're not home! Did he see me?"
Chapters include:
I. First Impressions are Really Important;
II. Subsequent Impressions Are Also Important;
III. No, You're Not Terrell Owens (aka Why Acting Like a Douchebag is a Bad Investment).
If you rant about everything, is very unlikely that people in the future will listen to you whan you have something actually interesting to say.Well, this was supposed to be in the OT forum, where I originally posted it, because it was a stream-of-consciousness ramble. It's not in complete earnest. Please do not report it to be moved to a serious forum, as it is not a serious thread.
really, I am beginning to wonder if this topic is just for your own amusement and self aggrandizement.You're wondering if a stream-of-consciousness ramble full of snark in the OT forum is meant to be amusing.
I'm wondering why there's any doubt in your mind.
lol OKay THAT is funny...
just to point out though...
Messageboards/Paizo Publishing/Pathfinder®/Pathfinder RPG/Paizo Products/
Nope nothing here about Off Topic at all... *shrug*
Emphasis is mine.
As well as:
Advanced Player's Gonzo Journalism, or Let's Read the APG (Moved to Paizo Products)
I see you're on the ball.
Just to point out...
Needs more Steadman. :)
Is this a prelude to "I quit Pathfinder forever"?
Seriously aMiB, it's a game. If reading new rules for a game is raising your blood pressure like this, perhaps it is time to consider a break. I've been there. Good luck with your whole "I'm freakin' out" thing.
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Seriously aMiB, it's a game. If reading new rules for a game is raising your blood pressure like this, perhaps it is time to consider a break. I've been there. Good luck with your whole "I'm freakin' out" thing.Ah say, ah say, it was a joke, son, a joke, ya heah?
Nice boy but his critical reading skills could use a bit of polishin'.
Hey Foghorn Leghorn, aren't jokes supposed to be funny? I ask because nothing you've said in this thread or any of the others in which you rant and rave and complain ad nauseum about Paizo, Pathfinder, the APG or pretty much every thing else has been funny. You may try to claim that you were joking now in an effort to get the heat off of you, but nothing you’ve said was funny.
Rude? Condescending? Self righteous? Holier-than-thou? Obnoxious? Needlessly and intentionally inflammatory?
Oh, absolutely.
Funny?
No.
Seriously aMiB, it's a game. If reading new rules for a game is raising your blood pressure like this, perhaps it is time to consider a break. I've been there. Good luck with your whole "I'm freakin' out" thing.Ah say, ah say, it was a joke, son, a joke, ya heah?
Nice boy but his critical reading skills could use a bit of polishin'.
Snarky though it was, a joke it was not. I am serious, if it is causing you this level of mental anguish, going further into it with threads and posting is not going to make you feel better.
It may be wiser to just rule the book off limits at your table and then tell us what you are adopting from it. I think everyone would rather read your thoughts in those terms. Heck, that's why I'm checking these threads! I know you've got a good eye for this stuff.
I understand that you feel you shouldn't need to line-item veto books, but it is a reality of GMing. You specifically have always wanted things to be handled differently from the designers (even back to the beta) so I am really not surprised you have issues with the APG.
I apologize for the snark in my earlier comment.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Snarky though it was, a joke it was not. I am serious, if it is causing you this level of mental anguish, going further into it with threads and posting is not going to make you feel better.It may be wiser to just rule the book off limits at your table and then tell us what you are adopting from it. I think everyone would rather read your thoughts in those terms. Heck, that's why I'm checking these threads! I know you've got a good eye for this stuff.
I understand that you feel you shouldn't need to line-item veto books, but it is a reality of GMing. You specifically have always wanted things to be handled differently from the designers (even back to the beta) so I am really not surprised you have issues with the APG.
I apologize for the snark in my earlier comment.
You need to remove the "Evil" from your alias if you're going to be posting stuff like this.
Being evil means never saying you're sorry.
Interesting so far. I have basically the same impression of the racial stuff -- a few interesting bits, a few stupid bits (+1 to CMD vs. disarm and overrun is somehow equal to a bonus spell known?) and a lot of "mostly harmless". I have less of a problem with "mostly harmless" than A Man In Black, though; if I buy a 320 page book for ~$30, I don't mind if some of it is harmless padding.
The class variants (what I was really looking forward to) vary from great ideas (I have a soft spot for the bard and ranger variants) to boring ideas (the mild variations on existing clerical domains were very dull) to "NPC only" (most of the terrain druid variants scream "NPC" to me).
I'm sure what fight you're trying to win here. Neither you nor Marc Radle have really addressed anything I've said, just complained about how I said it. I'll be sure to keep you two fine gents in the loop when I'm looking for an editor position for my posts, but in the meantime I'll be flying solo.
That's it exactly. I don't have a problem with what you're saying, but I dislike how you're saying it. Nevertheless, you're entitled to your opinion — I'll stick to reading your "condensed" format if you keep it less aggressive and more informative.
Hogarth, a single non-evil act is not enough to shift alignment.
Please tell me you guys aren't going to listen to EVIL Lincoln (emphasis, mine). Do I need to go start another thread about alignment? And Paladins? And Undead Republicans? It's like we have to learn the same lesson over and over again...
Please tell me you guys aren't going to listen to EVIL Lincoln (emphasis, mine). Do I need to go start another thread about alignment? And Paladins? And Undead Republicans? It's like we have to learn the same lesson over and over again...I am so tempted to FAQ this.
What does it NOT have? Ad Hominem + Alignment = Something I won't type or I'll get on Treppa's list. But YOU know what. Okay, it doesn't have math.
I am so tempted to FAQ this.
/me imagines a forum where everyone knew in advance to ignore me.
Yeah, that's pretty much what we've got now.
I am so tempted to FAQ this./me imagines a forum where everyone knew in advance to ignore me.
Yeah, that's pretty much what we've got now.
I didn't ignore you. ::Grins::
Hogarth, a single non-evil act is not enough to shift alignment.
(I think you're referring to Sebastian's comment, not mine.)
Well, I'm not quite done with it yet.
Well, I don't think I'm going to spoil anything if I tell you that it's about on a par with a typical 3.X D&D book from Wizards of the Coast: 20% good ideas, 10% bad ideas, and 70% "other". (Your particular assessment of those ratios may vary, of course.)
Seriously aMiB, it's a game. If reading new rules for a game is raising your blood pressure like this, perhaps it is time to consider a break. I've been there. Good luck with your whole "I'm freakin' out" thing.Ah say, ah say, it was a joke, son, a joke, ya heah?
Nice boy but his critical reading skills could use a bit of polishin'.
Hey Foghorn Leghorn, aren't jokes supposed to be funny? I ask because nothing you've said in this thread or any of the others in which you rant and rave and complain ad nauseum about Paizo, Pathfinder, the APG or pretty much every thing else has been funny. You may try to claim that you were joking now in an effort to get the heat off of you, but nothing you’ve said was funny.
Rude? Condescending? Self righteous? Holier-than-thou? Obnoxious? Needlessly and intentionally inflammatory?
Oh, absolutely.
Funny?
No.
I found it all quite hilarious, thanks. Not quite as funny as the "enraged fanboy" reaction that his criticisms typically draw out, but humorous nonetheless.
All right, now that Hogarth made a TL;DR version of this thread it's time to reduce it to absurd.
So, Nazi Prostitute Smurfs. Discuss.
They are obviously superior.
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I'm new to this messageboard, but on many others, there's a saying: Don't feed the trolls.
Since the troll in question here is trying to put a product into a bad light, and since I am of the opinion that this product does not deserve that, I shall give a short first opinion myself, without further indulging the troll's attempts to bait everybody:
Having bought the book today and spent some time looking roughly over "what's where", I was positively surprised despite the high expectations I already had. Perhaps I'll find fault with the details, that will be seen later (and stated in my review once I'm through the book).
But as it stands right now, I'm very, very glad I bought this amazing book. There's so many fun and exciting options for your character(s) in here, it's simply stunning.
Also, the troll in question should be made aware of the fact that, due to the nature of this thread, I will not ever return to it. Neither he, nor it, deserve that.
Marc Radle wrote:
A Man In Black wrote:
Evil Lincoln wrote:
Seriously aMiB, it's a game. If reading new rules for a game is raising your blood pressure like this, perhaps it is time to consider a break. I've been there. Good luck with your whole "I'm freakin' out" thing.
Ah say, ah say, it was a joke, son, a joke, ya heah?
Nice boy but his critical reading skills could use a bit of polishin'.
Hey Foghorn Leghorn, aren't jokes supposed to be funny? I ask because nothing you've said in this thread or any of the others in which you rant and rave and complain ad nauseum about Paizo, Pathfinder, the APG or pretty much every thing else has been funny. You may try to claim that you were joking now in an effort to get the heat off of you, but nothing you’ve said was funny.
Rude? Condescending? Self righteous? Holier-than-thou? Obnoxious? Needlessly and intentionally inflammatory?
Oh, absolutely.
Funny?
No.
I found it all quite hilarious, thanks. Not quite as funny as the "enraged fanboy" reaction that his criticisms typically draw out, but humorous nonetheless.
*Raises hand* I found it funny too. But then again I'm a fan of TGWTG and Yathzee, so I know the diference between hating something and nitpicking on the bad points for fun.
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I'm new to this messageboard, but on many others, there's a saying: Don't feed the trolls.
Since the troll in question here is trying to put a product into a bad light, and since I am of the opinion that this product does not deserve that, I shall give a short first opinion myself, without further indulging the troll's attempts to bait everybody:
Having bought the book today and spent some time looking roughly over "what's where", I was positively surprised despite the high expectations I already had. Perhaps I'll find fault with the details, that will be seen later (and stated in my review once I'm through the book).
But as it stands right now, I'm very, very glad I bought this amazing book. There's so many fun and exciting options for your character(s) in here, it's simply stunning.
Also, the troll in question should be made aware of the fact that, due to the nature of this thread, I will not ever return to it. Neither he, nor it, deserve that.
GG, you just fed him :)
I think I am going to do the alchemist, at least. I heard it was buffed to something workable.
Hm? As far as I saw, it's mostly the same as the final playtest version, with a couple of tweaks. E.g. some of the new spells were added to the formula list [not very exciting ones], Sticky Bomb discovery was deleted, Concentrate Poison discovery was added, some wording was cleared up [e.g. it was clarified that an alchemist can't make a potion of Shield or True Strike]. I'm not sure what you heard.
The only buff I can think of is that there's now an Extra Discovery feat.
So far, despite the snarky tone, I've agreed with a lot of MiB's comments regarding the actual, you know, mechanics and stuff. I do NOT agree that he has the right to censor material for the rest of us (see "that other contentious thread"), but that aside, the fact of the matter is that "+1 skill rank for your pet" isn't going to get a lot of use in anyone's home game, whereas "get a free spell known every level" is going to have people lining up at the door. And, honestly, almost no one is going to read the stuff that says "elven rangers are very ranger-y, except that they're also elves!" -- I agree that all that could have been omitted to save on page count.
[..] the fact of the matter is that "+1 skill rank for your pet" isn't going to get a lot of use in anyone's home game, whereas "get a free spell known every level" is going to have people lining up at the door.
When I first saw the "+1 skill point for pets", I scoffed at it a bit, but on second thought I didn't think it was that bad. Certainly not "+1 to CMD vs. disarm and overrun bad" (1/2-elf fighter).
If I were a druid, an extra maxed-out skill for my animal companion would be handy, I think; the animal skill list is just as good as the druid skill list, if you ask me!
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Wait. How do half-orcs have a bite attack if orcs don't? I mean, obviously I can just give orcs the same bite attack, but there's nothing about Pathfinder orcs that makes them particularly bitey. Maybe it's a fob to GW's depictions of orcs.
This strikes a chord with me. I've always been annoyed that races shown with ginormous fanged maws in the artwork (gnolls, orcs, bugbears, kobolds, ogre, minotaur, Golarion goblin) have no bite attack. These are races that, one would think, *like* to bite people (and, occasionally, even eat them), and yet if they attempt to bite someone, it's going to do the same old 1d3 nonlethal that a flat-faced dull-toothed human, dwarf or elf would do.
The 3.X half-orc would totally have been a more interesting fighter / monk option (not saying much, obviously) if it got a free secondary bite attack, in addition to it's melee attacks!
wanders through thread