We have had a spirited discussion within our group about the realistic ability of a floating disc to carry 4 humanoids and their equipment. We have 3 humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). The four of them are trying to sit on this 3ft disk with their equipment and travel across river a half-a-mile wide during a torrential rainstorm. I as a paladin said this wouldn't be possible and was afraid to get on the disk because of risk of falling in the river and drowning. The wizard insisted we could do it safely and grew angry saying we were questioning his magical ability. In the end we tied a rope around all four of us and rode the disk across. Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?
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To answer the title of the thread: None. Players can't ride floating discs because floating disks aren't real (unless you meant something other than the spell, of course, like disc-shaped flying saucers, which are real, and which can hold hundreds of players at a time if the aliens want to really pack us in there).
Now to answer the post: A medium or small creature (humans and halflings) need a 5' square. The disc is smaller than 5', so only one character can occupy it. Of course, that's the gamist combat spacing rule, which doesn't necessarily apply (try maintaining your own 5' space in a NYC subway at 8 AM Wednesday morning in Manhattan).
On the other hand, I've seen 4 humans play Twister and sometimes everyone is within about a 3' space, give or take.
Assuming the wizard can handle the weight of all the people and the gear, I would say it should be plausible.
Just for fun, try it out. Get one big guy and put him in football pads. Two other normal sized guys and a kid. Draw a circle on the ground 3' diameter and see how easy it is for all four of you to stand in it. My guess, it's harder than it sounds.
For even more fun, draw that circle in the bed of a pickup truck and have everyone balance in it, then start the truck and put it in gear and see if they can stay in the circle while the truck starts moving.
Any reason the group couldn't make two trips across the river?
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We have had a spirited discussion within our group about the realistic ability of a floating disc to carry 4 humanoids and their equipment. We have 3 humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). The four of them are trying to sit on this 3ft disk with their equipment and travel across river a half-a-mile wide during a torrential rainstorm. I as a paladin said this wouldn't be possible and was afraid to get on the disk because of risk of falling in the river and drowning. The wizard insisted we could do it safely and grew angry saying we were questioning his magical ability. In the end we tied a rope around all four of us and rode the disk across. Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?
Depends on the caster's level, and the combined weight of the party and their gear.
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To answer the title of the thread: None. Players can't ride floating discs because floating disks aren't real (unless you meant something other than the spell, of course, like disc-shaped flying saucers, which are real, and which can hold hundreds of players at a time if the aliens want to really pack us in there).
LOL!!!
We have had a spirited discussion within our group about the realistic ability of a floating disc to carry 4 humanoids and their equipment. We have 3 humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). The four of them are trying to sit on this 3ft disk with their equipment and travel across river a half-a-mile wide during a torrential rainstorm. I as a paladin said this wouldn't be possible and was afraid to get on the disk because of risk of falling in the river and drowning. The wizard insisted we could do it safely and grew angry saying we were questioning his magical ability. In the end we tied a rope around all four of us and rode the disk across. Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?Depends on the caster's level, and the combined weight of the party and their gear.
Isn't a Floating Disk 1 foot across and able to hold 100 lbs per caster level? So at 3rd level (3 feet across) that's 300 lbs. Assuming average weight, that'd be at least 125 lbs for each human and say 25 for the halfling, which would be 400 lbs - 100 lbs too heavy for the disk at that level - without their equipment.
EDIT: Okay, just checked the spell description. It's always 3 feet across and can hold 100 lbs per caster level. So if the caster's at least 6th level, that's 600 lbs, which should be good enough for 3 humans and a halfling and their equipment unless they're really overequipped. As for balance - if everyone sat down I'd say it would be a DC 15 maybe, including the circumstances (no taking 20, as the penalty for failing would be falling off).
In the spell description it says the floating disk is 3ft in diameter. The wizard is 10th lvl so it can hold 1,000lbs.
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In the spell description it says the floating disk is 3ft in diameter. The wizard is 10th lvl so it can hold 1,000lbs.
Then this is absolutely zero problem. Seriously, draw a three-foot diameter circle on the ground, get two buddies and one of their kids or nephews, and stand in a huddle. You can happily sit on the edge of the disk, if you don't like to hug; the disk can hold 250 lbs per person - the paladin is the only one iffy here, and the other three probably come in well below that, giving him some extra weight.
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In the spell description it says the floating disk is 3ft in diameter. The wizard is 10th lvl so it can hold 1,000lbs.Then this is absolutely zero problem. Seriously, draw a three-foot diameter circle on the ground, get two buddies and one of their kids or nephews, and stand in a huddle. You can happily sit on the edge of the disk, if you don't like to hug; the disk can hold 250 lbs per person - the paladin is the only one iffy here, and the other three probably come in well below that, giving him some extra weight.
Exactly. I see no problem with this spell handling the party's need.
In the spell description it says the floating disk is 3ft in diameter. The wizard is 10th lvl so it can hold 1,000lbs.Then this is absolutely zero problem. Seriously, draw a three-foot diameter circle on the ground, get two buddies and one of their kids or nephews, and stand in a huddle. You can happily sit on the edge of the disk, if you don't like to hug; the disk can hold 250 lbs per person - the paladin is the only one iffy here, and the other three probably come in well below that, giving him some extra weight.
We did exactly that. The GM later found a 40in circle at work and asked the four of us to sit on it. With just our four bodies it seems reasonable, but think of a paladin wearing plate, the others with their armor, backpacks, equipment, weapons and a disk 4in smaller in diameter and things seem a little less sure.
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We have had a spirited discussion within our group about the realistic ability of a floating disc to carry 4 humanoids and their equipment. We have 3 humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). The four of them are trying to sit on this 3ft disk with their equipment and travel across river a half-a-mile wide during a torrential rainstorm. [...] Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?
No, unless it was a very shallow river. By RAW it floats approx 3ft above the _ground_ at all times which in this case is the riverbed.
Though in general four people on a disk, sounds cramped but doable. You could of course strap poles or some such to the disk to make its carrying area bigger or safer.
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No, unless it was a very shallow river. By RAW it floats approx 3ft above the _ground_ at all times which in this case is the riverbed.
While I consider this rather "ruleslawyer-ly" (not a word, I think) it's probably the best ruling. Otherwise this disk becomes way too useful to traverse pools of acid and lava. It's only 1st level after all.
However, if this were to be allowed I would apply modifies to the DC for PCs to stay on the disk, probably based on the Wind-related DCs. They could tie a rope around their upper bodies to reduce the DC significantly (maybe -10 on the DC?), which would prevent any individual from sliding off the edge of the disk.
Obvisouly you put this in thier way to be a challenge and costing them a 1st level spell is hardly a challgene.
at the very least I would have made the wizard pay in higher level spells to do it
for example
4th level Arcane eye sent 3000 feet across the river to look at the other side and the 5th level teleport to move everyone across.
at least that was it cost the mage some of his better spells for the day.
if the mage dosent have appropirate high level spells to meet this challenge (i.e. he's all blasty) then that shoud cost the part in verstility and should have made it harder to get across.
if you wanted a reason why floating disc wouldn't have worked. it was during a storm so there would have been waves in the river, easily bigger than 3 feet which would have washed over the disc knocking them off. unless the wizard was prepared to cast spell like wind wall to divert and knockdown waves.
don't cheat yourself out of a perfectly good terrain encounter
oh btw
humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). and wizard ? that makes 5 not 4 , where was the wizard sitting ?
He was flying.
He was flying.
with the fly spell ? or his own set of wings ? or was it overland flight ?
hope you made him roll fly checks for flyin during a storm
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Well since we are talking about sitting down why not use a real world analogy, because sitting in't about your Space, but just the width of the average rump.
At the new Yankee Stadium the seat widths are between 19 & 24 inches.
The standard airline seat is 17.2 inches wide, while seat pitch (depth) ranges from 28 to 34 inches.
--SkyVrockets in Flight!
We have had a spirited discussion within our group about the realistic ability of a floating disc to carry 4 humanoids and their equipment. We have 3 humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). The four of them are trying to sit on this 3ft disk with their equipment and travel across river a half-a-mile wide during a torrential rainstorm. [...] Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?No, unless it was a very shallow river. By RAW it floats approx 3ft above the _ground_ at all times which in this case is the riverbed.
Though in general four people on a disk, sounds cramped but doable. You could of course strap poles or some such to the disk to make its carrying area bigger or safer.
This
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At the new Yankee Stadium the seat widths are between 19 & 24 inches.
The standard airline seat is 17.2 inches wide, while seat pitch (depth) ranges from 28 to 34 inches.
--SkyVrockets in Flight!
Neither of which would fit a muscled up fighter wearing plate mail. Well, unless he put the armrest up between the seats. ;)
Now to answer the post: A medium or small creature (humans and halflings) need a 5' square. The disc is smaller than 5', so only one character can occupy it. Of course, that's the gamist combat spacing rule, which doesn't necessarily apply (try maintaining your own 5' space in a NYC subway at 8 AM Wednesday morning in Manhattan).
It can be done. It requires certain behaviors that are less then desirable though. Fake vomit and fake blood used in combination with ha little sleight of hand and boom you have half a car at least all to yourself. Another tactic is to wear slightly worn clothing and carry 2 dozen shoping bags filled with wierd random stuff. Guaranteed you at least get the bench your sitting on all to yourself. Bonus if you smell of urine and or booze.
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Obvisouly you put this in thier way to be a challenge and costing them a 1st level spell is hardly a challgene.
at the very least I would have made the wizard pay in higher level spells to do it
for example
4th level Arcane eye sent 3000 feet across the river to look at the other side and the 5th level teleport to move everyone across.at least that was it cost the mage some of his better spells for the day.
if the mage dosent have appropirate high level spells to meet this challenge (i.e. he's all blasty) then that shoud cost the part in verstility and should have made it harder to get across.
if you wanted a reason why floating disc wouldn't have worked. it was during a storm so there would have been waves in the river, easily bigger than 3 feet which would have washed over the disc knocking them off. unless the wizard was prepared to cast spell like wind wall to divert and knockdown waves.
don't cheat yourself out of a perfectly good terrain encounter
oh btw
humans (paladin, monk and rogue) and a halfling (barbarian). and wizard ? that makes 5 not 4 , where was the wizard sitting ?
Do you also make the archer use his magic arrows for a combat because he was doing too well with just normal arrows and you think that he should have had to use more resources?
I see no problems with allowing this (I would use the balance checks and such to make it more difficult). The wizard came up with a creative plan to cross the water, and it sounds like the group RP'd the whole situation well. I have no problems with character finding solutions that I did not think of to by pass encounters. After all, there should always be more then one way to continue on your path, otherwise you are just a railroad DM.
As a DM, if the players bypassed a challenge to easily then you made one of two errors. You either under estimated the parties ability, or over estimated the CR of the encounter. If you really think that they bypassed it too easily, then you can just grant them less XP for that encounter.
Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?
Nope. Taking a tape measure and looking at a 3' diameter circle, and then considering armored and geared individuals and their packs - highly unlikely.
(Before even bothering to mention an interpretation that the disc can only hover over a solid surface, which water is not.)
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Still I don't think it should have been possible...do you?Nope. Taking a tape measure and looking at a 3' diameter circle, and then considering armored and geared individuals and their packs - highly unlikely.
(Before even bothering to mention an interpretation that the disc can only hover over a solid surface, which water is not.)
Rather then just saying no, I think that it would be better to add some rolls and DC's to it. Makes it something that the characters/players would talk about for a while and have fun with.
So, from my point of view, it would have the following:
I would allow the disk to go acrossed the water, but it would be tossed around from the moving surface.
Accrobatics skill check DC of 19 (+15 for lack of space, +5 for unstable surface, +2 for rain on the surface, +2 for it moving, -5 if they use a rope and help try to keep each other on).
Plus I would make the Wizard make a fly check to keep the disk within 3 feet of the waters surface. Maybe at a DC of 12-15.
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Heh, cute idea, Berto. :)
However, full plate is usually not a single solid piece of armor, but many overlapping and flexible pieces. So sitting on the knight's chest likely would suffocate him. Or at least bruise or break a few ribs.
Another option would be to cast a second floating disk and connect them together, then have the PCs hang onto (or ride) the connecting material (rope?).
The way the situation was described in the OP I think it may have been a very generous oversight on the GM's part, but I've been in that position my self many times where...shimmery sidetrack graphics...
the players have gone way off track when they murdered a traveling merchant due to some percieved slight and never found out about a lesser known bridge that crosses the Danforth river just a few miles wide of the bridge being held by the evil Duke's hired brigands...they then proceed to the bridge and, using that ever vexing player creativity, manage to pull a "Bridge Over the River Kwai" and all the brigands end up drowned in the river...along with the ruined bridge. Now the players are stuck on the wrong side of the river with the evil Duke's search party closing in behind them. Seeing that it is 11:45pm in real life I urge them to come up with a solution or we'll have to break till next time. Then the wizard comes up with a plan to levitate the group over the river ahead of their pursuers on a three foot disc (never mind that until now everyone was constantly adopting power rock poses and bragging about how much they weighed and how rippling their muscles were)....I take off my glasses...rub my eyes...and just sort of bow my head and wave my hand in a suplicating manner...Thus ending a five hour gameplay sidetrack and pushing us towards the events that I actually spent all the previous week planning and drawing cool-arse handouts for. End sidetrack flashback...
The above was purely hypothetical but it happens to all of us I think. In the future though, there should probably be some hefty save or swim for that kind of freewheeling bravado. Or your GM could always just set up some longbowmen in the bushes on the far side of the river now that no one gets dex bonuses to AC and the wizard not only has to maintain flying, but moving y'all on a 3ft disc as well...
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So, unless there was a reprint since my addition to this post, the spell descriptions says "ground," not "surface."
The situation of carrying characters (as above), is valid for the reasons described.
However, carrying them across water, is not. "Ground" in no way implies, nor should be inferred or assumed, any horizontal surface. "Surface," on the other hand, seems to include solid or liquid.
I mention this because a player asked just now, and it didn't take much time for me to rule on this because of the wording of the spell. It's okay for a DM to rule other than RAW, of course, but print stating of "ground" is for a solid surface.
Complication. If it is a small creek with solid bottom within that 3' point, than the crossing would be fine, but that's because of the sub-solid surface, not because of the water.
Anyone encounter a wizard who has a tabletop crafted with an indention on the bottom to match the contours of a floating disk and expand the 3ft diameter with a larger surface?
I've always liked the "lazy wizard" idea that rides his own floating disk while his familiar is rigged up with a pulling harness to drag him around.
My question is about the mobility? The disk is tethered to the caster, and accompanies the caster. It is not self-mobile, except to keep up with the caster. If the caster is on the disk, he is unable to move, in order to be accompanied by the disk.
It's not a frictionless hoverboard from Back to the Future to be pushed across either.
The caster needs to move, and then the disk will follow.
You create a slightly concave, circular plane of force that follows you about and carries loads for you. The disk is 3 feet in diameter and 1 inch deep at its center. It can hold 100 pounds of weight per caster level. If used to transport a liquid, its capacity is 2 gallons. The disk floats approximately 3 feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you. The disk winks out of existence when the spell duration expires. The disk also winks out if you move beyond its range or try to take the disk more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it. When the disk winks out, whatever it was supporting falls to the surface beneath it.
"If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet between itself and you."
"The disk also winks out if you move beyond its range"
You can direct the disk to anywhere in it's range, and it can move up to your speed. I see no reason you cannot ride your own disk.
The OP mentioned the wizard was 10th level. At that level, mere travel should not be a hindrance to the party. Using a 1st level spell is fine.
/cevah