Umm, yeah, do they? The +1 Hit Point or Skill Point, I mean.
What about NPCs with PC class levels?
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It seems to me that the favored class bonus is supposed to be a PC-class perk. I don't know if its ever been officially stated, but that's how I've been thinking of it.
Hmm, I am intrigued on this, later tonight when I get the chance I am going to deconstruct a few NPC from an adventure path that have levels in NPC and PC classes so see what I can find out.
In that case, yes they would gain them. It does seem NPC classes do not however gain them {which I find odd}
Does anyone have access to the Paizo NPC book? Seems like it would be mentioned there....
I give any creature with elite scores that particular benefit, so that is mostly creatures with PC classes. Don't know what is the official ruling on it though.
The NPC Guide doesn't address the issue at all. There is nothing about favored classes that say NPCs shouldn't get them. The only thing it mentions is that prestige classes can never be favored.
Favored Class
Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Chapter 11) can never be a favored class.
It says "Each character..."good enough for me. Seems like the NPCs should have favored classes.
The NPC Guide doesn't address the issue at all. There is nothing about favored classes that say NPCs shouldn't get them. The only thing it mentions is that prestige classes can never be favored.
It says "Each character..."good enough for me. Seems like the NPCs should have favored classes.Favored Class
Each character begins play with a single favored class of his choosing—typically, this is the same class as the one he chooses at 1st level. Whenever a character gains a level in his favored class, he receives either + 1 hit point or + 1 skill rank. The choice of favored class cannot be changed once the character is created, and the choice of gaining a hit point or a skill rank each time a character gains a level (including his first level) cannot be changed once made for a particular level. Prestige classes (see Chapter 11) can never be a favored class.
fair enough, I dont see a problem with that, though it seems that particular chapter deals with the advancement of player characters specifically. Personally I dislike giving special treatment to player characters in that regard though, the same rules should apply to npc's and pc's in that regard.
I was pretty sure that NPC classes didn't provide favored class bonuses.
Then, I couldn't find any cite in the Core Rulebook or the PRD to back up my claim.
Digging deeper by spot-checking some of the NPC-classed NPCs at the end of the GameMastery Guide, it would seem that they do get the favored class bonus. Unless my math is way off, all of the NPCs that I checked seemed to have 1 extra skill point per level.
So, it appears that they do get favored class bonuses.
However, NPC classed monsters don't seem to get the favored class bonus.
Here are two examples...
Monster
After removing feat, class skill, size, and ability score bonuses from the 1st level goblin warrior in the Bestiary, it has the following:
Ride 1 rank, Stealth 0 ranks Swim 1 rank. That adds up for the 2+Int skill ranks a warrior gets.
Human
After removing feat, class skill, and ability score bonuses from the squire, a 1st level human aristocrat in the GameMastery Guide, it has the following:
Craft (armor) 1, Craft (weapons) 1, Handle Animal 1, Knowledge (nobility) 1, Ride 1
4 skill points per level - 1 Intelligence +1 for being human +1 for favored class = 5 skill points, which is what he has.
So we'll have to wait for a clarification on this one.
I was pretty sure that NPC classes didn't provide favored class bonuses.
Then, I couldn't find any cite in the Core Rulebook or the PRD to back up my claim.
Digging deeper by spot-checking some of the NPC-classed NPCs at the end of the GameMastery Guide, it would seem that they do get the favored class bonus. Unless my math is way off, all of the NPCs that I checked seemed to have 1 extra skill point per level.
So, it appears that they do get favored class bonuses.
However, NPC classed monsters don't seem to get the favored class bonus.
Here are two examples...
Monster
After removing feat, class skill, size, and ability score bonuses from the 1st level goblin warrior in the Bestiary, it has the following:Ride 1 rank, Stealth 0 ranks Swim 1 rank. That adds up for the 2+Int skill ranks a warrior gets.
Human
After removing feat, class skill, and ability score bonuses from the squire, a 1st level human aristocrat in the GameMastery Guide, it has the following:Craft (armor) 1, Craft (weapons) 1, Handle Animal 1, Knowledge (nobility) 1, Ride 1
4 skill points per level - 1 Intelligence +1 for being human +1 for favored class = 5 skill points, which is what he has.
So we'll have to wait for a clarification on this one.
actually the goblin checks out when you take into account the armor check penalty from the shield. So I'd have to conclude they indeed do get the skill bonus.
EDIT: no it doesn't all three skills should have the armor check penalty from the shield, though paizo might have forgotten to apply it to swim and ride skills instead.
I've checked a few more of the NPC-classed NPCs in the GMy Guide (barmaid, foot soldier, village idiot), and all of them so far except the village idiot have had the extra skill point favored class benefit.
Of course, being the village idiot, he may have forgotten to apply the bonus. We'll probably find it buried in pig dung out in the sty somewhere... roll Perception with a -2 penalty for unfavorable conditions. ;)
I've checked a few more of the NPC-classed NPCs in the GMy Guide (barmaid, foot soldier, village idiot), and all of them so far except the village idiot have had the extra skill point favored class benefit.
Of course, being the village idiot, he may have forgotten to apply the bonus. We'll probably find it buried in pig dung out in the sty somewhere... roll Perception with a -2 penalty for unfavorable conditions. ;)
perhaps the village idiot has the hp instead ? I would consider that an obvious choice to take if I were GM. II do not have the GMG so I cant check myself..
perhaps the village idiot has the hp instead ? I would consider that an obvious choice to take if I were GM. II do not have the GMG so I cant check myself..
I thought that, too, but he has 6 hp, which is the average for someone with 1d6+3 for hit points. If he'd taken the hp bonus, he'd have 4 hp.
Perhaps they plan to multiclass later and chose a different class...
Perhaps... that's a good way to accommodate the errata without it actually being errata. ^_^
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perhaps the village idiot has the hp instead ? I would consider that an obvious choice to take if I were GM. II do not have the GMG so I cant check myself..I thought that, too, but he has 6 hp, which is the average for someone with 1d6+3 for hit points. If he'd taken the hp bonus, he'd have 4 hp.
Perhaps they plan to multiclass later and chose a different class...Perhaps... that's a good way to accommodate the errata without it actually being errata. ^_^
I've been giving NPC classes the bonuses when I build stat blocks at home, I must admit. It's easier to remember that than to give my human commoners their +2 racial bonus to any stat... :(
I've been giving NPC classes the bonuses when I build stat blocks at home, I must admit. It's easier to remember that than to give my human commoners their +2 racial bonus to any stat... :(
I'm pretty much convinced now that NPC classes provide favored class bonuses.
Since all the NPC-classed monsters in the Bestiary are 1st level, it's a simple enough matter to go through and give each an extra skill rank or hit point. As errata, this one's pretty easy to deal with.
Now I just have to go through my homebrewed NPCs and fix 'em. LOL
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Regardless of the official ruling, I'm going to continue giving NPC classes the benefit of the doubt, and also continue how I ruled in 3.5, which was to assume that all NPC classes are favored for everyone (in addition to the class they pick as favored at 1st level).
If someone chooses to take a level of Expert, instead of Rogue (or Warrior instead of Fighter), then I'm not going to begrudge them an extra hp or skill point, considering all the class abilities they lose.
The Conversion Guide gives +1 hp per HD to 3.5 humanoid monsters, I always tought it was the brand new favored class bonus.
perhaps the village idiot has the hp instead ? I would consider that an obvious choice to take if I were GM. II do not have the GMG so I cant check myself..I thought that, too, but he has 6 hp, which is the average for someone with 1d6+3 for hit points. If he'd taken the hp bonus, he'd have 4 hp.
But the village idiot has Con 15, which would make his hit dice 1d6+2. The +3 could only be there because of his favoured class benefit.
You'd think that somewhere in the fairly detailed step-by-step guides to creating NPCs it would have at least a single line saying, "Now, choose your favored class. See page XX for information on favored classes." Or, you know, a hyperlink.
Just sayin'.
They do have a step by step in the core book page 450. They just do not seem to cover favored class. I disagree with that but it seems NPC's may not get that. I know the NPC they build there does not have any extra HP but have not checked the math on his skill points
But the village idiot has Con 15, which would make his hit dice 1d6+2. The +3 could only be there because of his favoured class benefit.perhaps the village idiot has the hp instead ? I would consider that an obvious choice to take if I were GM. II do not have the GMG so I cant check myself..I thought that, too, but he has 6 hp, which is the average for someone with 1d6+3 for hit points. If he'd taken the hp bonus, he'd have 4 hp.
Good catch! So there we have it... NPC classes do get favored class bonuses.
Cool ^_^
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NPCs do get favored class bonuses.
Thank you Sean, I am very much impressed with the time you guys spend on this board answering questions. It is one of the main reasons that convinced me, and through me my players to switch to PRPG.
sorry had to say it, I was feeling emotional for a moment xD
Ditto, and "Thanks," Sean.
So that's settled. Always nice when the answer is an unambiguous yes or no.
NPCs do get favored class bonuses.
Cool! Thanks!
Creative Director
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The tricky part about favored class bonuses is that we don't actually indicate in our stat blocks if any particular class IS that character's favored class. While anyone can certainly take commoner or warrior or expert as their favored class, not all do, even if that's their first class, because they might have plans to multiclass into a PC class at 2nd level and thereafter, and thus might want to say THAT class is their favored class. You don't have to make your 1st level class your favored class, in other words.
For the majority of the stat blocks we publish, we DO assume that the first class a creature takes is its favored class, and even though that's a choice that we sometimes don't follow, it's the case often enough that you can pretty much assume that's the case in most stat blocks.
The tricky part about favored class bonuses is that we don't actually indicate in our stat blocks if any particular class IS that character's favored class. While anyone can certainly take commoner or warrior or expert as their favored class, not all do, even if that's their first class, because they might have plans to multiclass into a PC class at 2nd level and thereafter, and thus might want to say THAT class is their favored class. You don't have to make your 1st level class your favored class, in other words.
For the majority of the stat blocks we publish, we DO assume that the first class a creature takes is its favored class, and even though that's a choice that we sometimes don't follow, it's the case often enough that you can pretty much assume that's the case in most stat blocks.
I wonder why paizo didn't go with the bonus for whatever class is highest, that would feel much more natural in advancing a character without the need to plan ahead.
fighter 1 is buffer than fighter 2 because fighter 2 has dreams of becoming a rogue one day...
Why didn't paizo go with highest class, and why are Prestige classes not an option for the favored class in this version ?
Well, I sit corrected.
I may have to go revamp some NPCs I've statted up... 8^)
Crap. Ditto on that! I never give NPC's the favored class benefit!
The tricky part about favored class bonuses is that we don't actually indicate in our stat blocks if any particular class IS that character's favored class. While anyone can certainly take commoner or warrior or expert as their favored class, not all do, even if that's their first class, because they might have plans to multiclass into a PC class at 2nd level and thereafter, and thus might want to say THAT class is their favored class. You don't have to make your 1st level class your favored class, in other words.
For the majority of the stat blocks we publish, we DO assume that the first class a creature takes is its favored class, and even though that's a choice that we sometimes don't follow, it's the case often enough that you can pretty much assume that's the case in most stat blocks.
Well, stat blocks are certainly large and complicated enough as it is. I may start adding a line to mine along the lines of: FavClass-Warrior (+3hp, +3sp), or something like that. If nothing else, it will help me remember to include the bonuses.
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Well, stat blocks are certainly large and complicated enough as it is. I may start adding a line to mine along the lines of: FavClass-Warrior (+3hp, +3sp), or something like that. If nothing else, it will help me remember to include the bonuses.The tricky part about favored class bonuses is that we don't actually indicate in our stat blocks if any particular class IS that character's favored class. While anyone can certainly take commoner or warrior or expert as their favored class, not all do, even if that's their first class, because they might have plans to multiclass into a PC class at 2nd level and thereafter, and thus might want to say THAT class is their favored class. You don't have to make your 1st level class your favored class, in other words.
For the majority of the stat blocks we publish, we DO assume that the first class a creature takes is its favored class, and even though that's a choice that we sometimes don't follow, it's the case often enough that you can pretty much assume that's the case in most stat blocks.
A good spot for it would likely be under the SQ section toward the end (since it's not used much) and/or at the end of the race-class line as a little note (superscore f or some such).
A good spot for it would likely be under the SQ section toward the end (since it's not used much) and/or at the end of the race-class line as a little note (superscore f or some such).
+1.
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Creative Director
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I wonder why paizo didn't go with the bonus for whatever class is highest, that would feel much more natural in advancing a character without the need to plan ahead.
fighter 1 is buffer than fighter 2 because fighter 2 has dreams of becoming a rogue one day...
Why didn't paizo go with highest class, and why are Prestige classes not an option for the favored class in this version ?
We don't go with highest class because that can change as you gain levels, for one, and going with the highest class abandons the whole concept that "you're better at one class that you're naturally good at" and replaces it with "you're just better at the class you're better at," which is like putting salt on a saltine.
In fact, the need to plan ahead is a strength of the current favored class rules, since it helps to define and focus character concepts.
Prestige classes are not an option because we're deliberately trying to downplay prestige classes as "the route to greater power," and because we want it to be a harder choice to leave a class behind than it traditionally was.
I wonder why paizo didn't go with the bonus for whatever class is highest, that would feel much more natural in advancing a character without the need to plan ahead.
fighter 1 is buffer than fighter 2 because fighter 2 has dreams of becoming a rogue one day...
Why didn't paizo go with highest class, and why are Prestige classes not an option for the favored class in this version ?
We don't go with highest class because that can change as you gain levels, for one, and going with the highest class abandons the whole concept that "you're better at one class that you're naturally good at" and replaces it with "you're just better at the class you're better at," which is like putting salt on a saltine.
In fact, the need to plan ahead is a strength of the current favored class rules, since it helps to define and focus character concepts.
Prestige classes are not an option because we're deliberately trying to downplay prestige classes as "the route to greater power," and because we want it to be a harder choice to leave a class behind than it traditionally was.
firstly, thank you for responding.
I agree that there should be some planning ahead, but I do not agre on having to plan ahead till level 20 or even making a mistake picking a favored class at level 1 you do not have for 5 more levels, good odds you change your mind in that time. My campaign flows a bit more freely and players do not plan that far ahead, not more than 4 levels or so.. or at least not in detail.
I imagine a class a player has the most levels in will be his favored class because that is what he does best, the fact that it might change during progression doesn't really matter with the PRPG skill rules, even if you create a character at a higher level.
Even if you can apply this bonus to a Prc, in the case of EK for example it will never be more than 10 levels which is a hindrance in itself compared to single class characters, I don't think choosing Prc isn't all that obvious anymore with or without this rule, a few hp or sp isn't a way to power but it makes for a more diverse or durable character. Furthermore isn't picking a Prc the same as multi-classing or do you still assume a Prc to be the more powerful choice ?
The Conversion Guide gives +1 hp per HD to 3.5 humanoid monsters, I always tought it was the brand new favored class bonus.
I don't see a direct reference to "humanoid monsters" getting this, but there is an example reference to monstrous humanoids getting +1 hp per hit die. This is because their hit die type increased. This is true for all of the references I could find in the conversion guide to monster hp. They are talking about hit die type going up and down. Even if you are converting something that you rolled for, the most stable and "fair" way to do it is adjusting up or down by +/- 1 hp per die. It is the average increase/decrease.
Although, as a coincidence, most of the "humanoid monsters" in Monster Manuals are 1st level Warriors. They would, in fact, receive the +1 hp because the Warrior hit die went up to d10s.
Cheers
This being the case, and with the line on page 5 on the Bestiary which reads "Unless otherwise noted, the first class listed is the class chosen by the monster as its favored class." it would seem to indicate that all of the classed humanoids in the Bestiary should be erratad to include the favored class bonus (or at least indicate what their favored class is).