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I've always been partial to THISBard: SandmanI can hear this one already.....
I think more like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xMCNmUaGko
To cleanse you rmind of kaeYoss's link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-c66SJPuUI
Wow, Kae is once again caught again in a posting frenzy...
"Welcome to the redundancy ministry of redundancy and welcome!" ? ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-c66SJPuUI
AAAARGH! AAAARGH! MUST SCRATCH EYES OUT!
Someone hide the kids!
If you're looking for point-based/classless D&D, FantasyCraft or True20 might be better for you than PF RPG.I think that the system you're advocating is what would be like seven different dips into prestige classes, with a purely meta-game meaning. The idea of the packages appears to be the opposite in just about every way. In short, I'm afraid I'm not seeing the logic of your argument.I guess I didn't write it clearly enough. I disagree with people who look at classes as packages. I prefer to see the system as total meta-game, parts to be assembled to make up a particular concept. I have no problem with people dipping into seven different classes to get various class abilities. The problem though is that a lot of people just hear the long string of classes, assume that it must be cheese, and immediately want to limit multiclassing.
So people will end up hearing that I have a fighter 2 (Archer, Weapon Master)/Rogue 4 (Scout, Sniper)/Ranger 2 (Skirmisher) and scream "cheese!," when all I'm trying to do is be the best sniper the system can yield.
Quite honestly, Star Wars Saga almost is that.
So, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...
Sounds like a granted power for a sub-domain of War to me...
Yeah, we need to get it back on topic. So, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...
Looks like a solid feat for your Cleric If you want to be a heavy armor tank
So, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...Sounds like a granted power for a sub-domain of War to me...
Gotta tell ya, not having a list of the subdomains to go with the ist of archetypes is driving me nuts. WANT MOAR INFO
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Gotta tell ya, not having a list of the subdomains to go with the ist of archetypes is driving me nuts. WANT MOAR INFOSo, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...Sounds like a granted power for a sub-domain of War to me...
You can understand why there's not a list of subdomains on the page itself; the word count for the list of archetypes fit perfectly for the size of the page and there's 66+ subdomains...
Yeah, we need to get it back on topic. So, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...
LOL.
Although I actually was wondering if any of the archetypes/sub-domains/what-have-you changed armor proficiencies. Heavily-armored clerics. Lightly-armored fighters. That sort of thing.
You can understand why there's not a list of subdomains on the page itself; the word count for the list of archetypes fit perfectly for the size of the page and there's 66+ subdomains...Gotta tell ya, not having a list of the subdomains to go with the ist of archetypes is driving me nuts. WANT MOAR INFOSo, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...Sounds like a granted power for a sub-domain of War to me...
Sure, I get that - but it doesn't mean I don't want to be spoiled anyway! Jason doesn't have anything else to be typing up at the moment, right?
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Yeah, we need to get it back on topic. So, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...LOL.
Although I actually was wondering if any of the archetypes/sub-domains/what-have-you changed armor proficiencies. Heavily-armored clerics. Lightly-armored fighters. That sort of thing.
I dunno about heavily armored clerics, but I'd imagine something like the Mobile Fighter could easily lose Heavy Armor Proficiency or even Medium Armor Proficiency and gain something in return to be more "mobile".
I dunno about heavily armored clerics, but I'd imagine something like the Mobile Fighter could easily lose Heavy Armor Proficiency or even Medium Armor Proficiency and gain something in return to be more "mobile".Yeah, we need to get it back on topic. So, about the Cleric heavy armor proficiency ...LOL.
Although I actually was wondering if any of the archetypes/sub-domains/what-have-you changed armor proficiencies. Heavily-armored clerics. Lightly-armored fighters. That sort of thing.
I'd leave them with Medium armour proficiency with having some level of armour mastery.
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I've always been partial to THISBard: SandmanI can hear this one already.....
I think more like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xMCNmUaGkoCan't sleep clowns will eat me.
Can't sleep clowns will eat me.
Can't sleep clowns will eat me.
Can't sleep clowns will eat me.
Can't sleep clowns will eat me.Can't sleep clowns will ...
You need a happy meal.
Our FLGS just did one of it's periodic customer auctions (customers bring in their used gaming supplies and the store auctions it off and gives store credit in return).
There was only one Paizo product (a core rulebook) in the auction. It went for $30, one of the higher bids for the night.
The owner also mentioned that Pathfinder was currently selling better than any of the other product lines.
His wife snorted and said it was selling better than all the other product lines together.
Thought you (and the devs) would like that anecdote. The store is celebrating it's 30th year in operation next year and bringing in people from the industry. The owner said he'd love to bring in some Paizo people, but their HQ is so far away (Seattle vs St. Louis) that he didn't think it would be possible. :(
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Our FLGS just did one of it's periodic customer auctions (customers bring in their used gaming supplies and the store auctions it off and gives store credit in return).
There was only one Paizo product (a core rulebook) in the auction. It went for $30, one of the higher bids for the night.
The owner also mentioned that Pathfinder was currently selling better than any of the other product lines.
His wife snorted and said it was selling better than all the other product lines together.
Thought you (and the devs) would like that anecdote. The store is celebrating it's 30th year in operation next year and bringing in people from the industry. The owner said he'd love to bring in some Paizo people, but their HQ is so far away (Seattle vs St. Louis) that he didn't think it would be possible. :(
Sitting down and having a beer with the owner of the local game store the weekend before last he said something to that effect as well. His pathfinder products are selling at double to triple other similar products second only to warhammer 40k figures and MtG.
It will be interesting to see if the 6 new classes also have alternate class packages like the 11 old classes, and whether there are alternate class packages for any of the prestige classes (or come to that, any new prestige classes).
Indeed. I could actually see an Alchemist archetype of Artificer, based on the mechanics they use. Just change the flavour from potions to magical items, and remove mutagens and potion-fluff discoveries to more magical item crafting things.
Bombs could stay, because they fit as either a potion or a magic item.
It wouldn't be exactly like the Eberron Artificer, but I think it could work from the archetype method (since the new base mechanic of casting should work for the Artificer class). But really... they have "infusions" in the class already!
Gotta tell ya, not having a list of the subdomains to go with the ist of archetypes is driving me nuts. WANT MOAR INFO
I'm hoping that (and/or the new ranger combat styles) will be the next preview.
It will be interesting to see if the 6 new classes also have alternate class packages like the 11 old classes, and whether there are alternate class packages for any of the prestige classes (or come to that, any new prestige classes).
I don't remember where it was, but I recall reading that they won't be doing so, because the new classes are themselves "variants" of a sort. I wouldn't be surprised if later supplements add further variants to all classes, though.
It will be interesting to see if the 6 new classes also have alternate class packages like the 11 old classes, and whether there are alternate class packages for any of the prestige classes (or come to that, any new prestige classes).Indeed. I could actually see an Alchemist archetype of Artificer, based on the mechanics they use. Just change the flavour from potions to magical items, and remove mutagens and potion-fluff discoveries to more magical item crafting things.
Bombs could stay, because they fit as either a potion or a magic item.
It wouldn't be exactly like the Eberron Artificer, but I think it could work from the archetype method (since the new base mechanic of casting should work for the Artificer class). But really... they have "infusions" in the class already!
That would be amazing !
But I find it unlikely that it will be in the APG, otherwise we would have heard of it I think, maybe in APG 2 ?
Sitting down and having a beer with the owner of the local game store the weekend before last he said something to that effect as well. His pathfinder products are selling at double to triple other similar products second only to warhammer 40k figures and MtG.
Just goes to show that the oldest adage in business is still true. Give your customers what they want, and they'll give you what you want.
Most companies get into trouble when they get too much hubris and begin thinking they control what the customer wants (Microsoft for example, RIM Blackberry, TSR, and now WoTC).
You guys must have nice DMs. In my group, several of the DMs have determined that by rolling a 1 or a 20, you already know the result, thus you can't reroll. If you roll a 2, you don't know if that will hit or not, though usually not. But if you a roll a 1, it's an auto-miss and thus you already know you're not hitting, thus it's impossible to use an ability that lets you reroll before you know the result because by the fact of rolling a 1, you DO already know the result.
By RAW, only attack rolls are critical failures on natural 1s and automated success on a 20. The skill check criticals is either House Ruling or remnants of 3.5 alternative rules.
When you use the acrobatics to jump a ledge of 500 ft, you don't succeed on a 20. (Unless you beet a DC 500...). So why would it be that when you have a 10 ft ledge to jump, you critically fail on a 1, when your rogue has like, a +15 modifier on his jump (Which would allow for a 16 ft jump)?
Our FLGS just did one of it's periodic customer auctions (customers bring in their used gaming supplies and the store auctions it off and gives store credit in return).
There was only one Paizo product (a core rulebook) in the auction. It went for $30, one of the higher bids for the night.
The owner also mentioned that Pathfinder was currently selling better than any of the other product lines.
His wife snorted and said it was selling better than all the other product lines together.
Thought you (and the devs) would like that anecdote. The store is celebrating it's 30th year in operation next year and bringing in people from the industry. The owner said he'd love to bring in some Paizo people, but their HQ is so far away (Seattle vs St. Louis) that he didn't think it would be possible. :(
Ah, the Fantasy Shop. I miss living in St. Louis - a chain of stellar gaming stores is something that I don't have around here. There's one really good one, and it's a solid 20-30 minute drive from my house. They don't do the sweet used gaming auction, either. I got some good bargains at that every so often.
I'm curious about the Druid features, the "(animal)" Shaman in specific. I was never really a big fan of the druid, but I wonder if this will change that.
Court Bard does seem to be a rather close translation of the Jester from Dragon Compendium as an archetype for the Bard. It also seems well overpowered. For Satire... there's a good reason why Bane has a save and Bless does not - reducing masses of enemies attacks against the PCs results in even more indestructible parties when challenged by anything except very strong opponents.Clerics have lots of things to do, even at first level. Bards have bardic performance, and that's basically it. Satire certainly seems to be better than bane... but then, inspire courage is better than bless too. I'm not saying it's not overpowered, because I haven't actually thought through the numbers here, but it's not obviously too much either.
I agree, it's not overpowered. I'd say it's far from being overpowered. If anyone says so they didn't read the fine print.
Satire is a
- language-dependent ability
- mind-affecting ability
- that uses audible components
So Satire doesn't have a save? Hell prayer doesn't have a save and the spell isn't even an mind-affecting ability and it isn't a language-dependent and once cast it can't be silenced.
Inspire courage can use audible or visual components, but Satire is a language-dependent, mind-affecting ability that uses only audible components. This mean Inspire courage is always an auto succes.
If your enemy is an undead, plant, construct, animal or doesn't speak your language, or is deaf, or If you are silenced then Satire is usless.
Me, I would NEVER play a Court Bard.
Anytime you read a optimization guide the advice is always "better to buff than to debuff the enemies. Better to boost your DPR than to bost your ac.
Our FLGS just did one of it's periodic customer auctions (customers bring in their used gaming supplies and the store auctions it off and gives store credit in return).
There was only one Paizo product (a core rulebook) in the auction. It went for $30, one of the higher bids for the night.
The owner also mentioned that Pathfinder was currently selling better than any of the other product lines.
His wife snorted and said it was selling better than all the other product lines together.
Thought you (and the devs) would like that anecdote. The store is celebrating it's 30th year in operation next year and bringing in people from the industry. The owner said he'd love to bring in some Paizo people, but their HQ is so far away (Seattle vs St. Louis) that he didn't think it would be possible. :(
You live in STL? Same here! What shop is this? I live in South STL, we can't find any real good hobby shops in the area. There's Gamer's Nite in South County Mall, but they're all mostly high schoolers playing way too much MtG (is that ever going to die?)
If it's Fantasy Shop, aren't they all the way in St. Charles? I wish they had a shop right in STL, near downtown or something. The drive there is too insane for me.
You live in STL? Same here! What shop is this? I live in South STL, we can't find any real good hobby shops in the area. There's Gamer's Nite in South County Mall, but they're all mostly high schoolers playing way too much MtG (is that ever going to die?)
If it's Fantasy Shop, aren't they all the way in St. Charles? I wish they had a shop right in STL, near downtown or something. The drive there is too insane for me.
I'm not sure if they are still open, but the Fantasy Shop has/had a second location in Fairview Heights, IL. But even then I think the auctions were always at the St. Charles location.
Our FLGS just did one of it's periodic customer auctions (customers bring in their used gaming supplies and the store auctions it off and gives store credit in return).
There was only one Paizo product (a core rulebook) in the auction. It went for $30, one of the higher bids for the night.
The owner also mentioned that Pathfinder was currently selling better than any of the other product lines.
His wife snorted and said it was selling better than all the other product lines together.
Thought you (and the devs) would like that anecdote. The store is celebrating it's 30th year in operation next year and bringing in people from the industry. The owner said he'd love to bring in some Paizo people, but their HQ is so far away (Seattle vs St. Louis) that he didn't think it would be possible. :(
You live in STL? Same here! What shop is this? I live in South STL, we can't find any real good hobby shops in the area. There's Gamer's Nite in South County Mall, but they're all mostly high schoolers playing way too much MtG (is that ever going to die?)
If it's Fantasy Shop, aren't they all the way in St. Charles? I wish they had a shop right in STL, near downtown or something. The drive there is too insane for me.
Back when I lived in St. Louis, Fantasy Shop was a chain of stores, though only the St. Charles one really had any space to actually play. Still, they had a really nice selection of stuff at all of them, and they'd do interstore transfers if you asked nicely.
You live in STL? Same here! What shop is this? I live in South STL, we can't find any real good hobby shops in the area. There's Gamer's Nite in South County Mall, but they're all mostly high schoolers playing way too much MtG (is that ever going to die?)
If it's Fantasy Shop, aren't they all the way in St. Charles? I wish they had a shop right in STL, near downtown or something. The drive there is too insane for me.
The one in South County is at 10560 Baptist Church Road, St. Louis, MO 63128. (314) 842-8228.
Their website is http://www.fantasyshoponline.com/
Their website is http://www.fantasyshoponline.com/
Which has Pathfinder AP 24 in the top banner, FWIW.
I think they used to have a location in the city as well, not far from the Bevo Mill. That one is probably long gone, but we went there a fair amount for comics way back when.
It will be interesting to see if the 6 new classes also have alternate class packages like the 11 old classes, and whether there are alternate class packages for any of the prestige classes (or come to that, any new prestige classes).Indeed. I could actually see an Alchemist archetype of Artificer, based on the mechanics they use. Just change the flavour from potions to magical items, and remove mutagens and potion-fluff discoveries to more magical item crafting things.
Bombs could stay, because they fit as either a potion or a magic item.
It wouldn't be exactly like the Eberron Artificer, but I think it could work from the archetype method (since the new base mechanic of casting should work for the Artificer class). But really... they have "infusions" in the class already!
I see the parallels as well and love your idea
You live in STL? Same here! What shop is this? I live in South STL, we can't find any real good hobby shops in the area. There's Gamer's Nite in South County Mall, but they're all mostly high schoolers playing way too much MtG (is that ever going to die?)
If it's Fantasy Shop, aren't they all the way in St. Charles? I wish they had a shop right in STL, near downtown or something. The drive there is too insane for me.
The one in South County is at 10560 Baptist Church Road, St. Louis, MO 63128. (314) 842-8228.
Their website is http://www.fantasyshoponline.com/
What he said. :) It's down near Ronnie's theatre, cattycorner to the goodwill.
I think they have about 5 or 6 locations in STL. And they love Paizo (it's been really good to them lately).
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Edit -- I wonder in the rationale remains the same for the anti-paladin... maybe they can serve good gods! Anti-Paladin of Sarenrae to find and smite that do-gooding pally of Rovagug!
I just had a vision of a paladin of Asmodeus and an anti-paladin of Sarenrae doing battle...while both gods watch on and can't quite figure out who to root for.
So;
Bard: Arcane Duelist, Archivist, Court Bard, Detective, Magician, Sandman, Savage Skald, Sea Singer, Street Performer
I have to say that bard has never been a very interesting class to me, but some of these new archetypes sound awesome! I really hope the arcane duelist, archivist, and magic have nothing to do with music.
The other archetypes look really interesting too. That isn't quite as noteworthy for me though, since I was already interested in playing the other classes . . . now I just have tougher choices to make :)
So ridiculously interested to find out more about the Animal Shaman variants. Lion Shaman... yes please! Wolf Shaman... ok!
The evil Mr Frost had 'the precious' aka the APG with him at Paizocon UK..I say evil because he wouldn't let anyone look at it..evil evil Mr Frost
Why would he do that? That's epic level villiany there, Orcus would be proud. I mean, sure, he doesn't want us to see it before it's released- fine, but why bring it just to show us that it exists and we can't have it? Cruel.
Thanks for the clarification. However, my question may return. :)
The mechanic says, "... before the result of the roll is revealed....".
Could someone describe an example where the player would benefit from re-rolling before he knows the result of the original try?
Actually, now that I think about it, I had the same question on another part of PF. Isn't there a character class perk or a trait with this same feature? Re-roll b4 you know the result.
The key is the definition of 'result'. To me, the result is either a success or a failure, and thus, the re-roll must be requested before the GM declares it to be either.
So if you're fighting an enemy and you know from past rolls that a natural 8 isn't enough to hit, if you roll a 3, you can ask for a reroll before the GM declares the result of the roll.
'Preciate the folks who have taken time to 'splain me. Maybe I am overthinking this...
But, what is the practical difference of having the re-roll before the result is "announced" and just plain re-rolling a failure? Isn't that a trivial difference? Why not just say, "re-roll any result, keep the new roll"? Seems more clear that way.
Hmm, now that I think about it, a re-roll before the result is announced would serve to protect the existance any hidden modifiers that the GM may assign. Otherwise the player could metagame any hidden modifiers if he knew the exact result of the roll.
Okay, nevermind. I got it now. :)
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Here is hoping that the Feats will include more Martial Art Styles' Feats. I feel it is missing as other classes now have variants of their main features (Cleric's Domains, Ranger's combat styles).
It would be good for the Monk to get some Martial Arts love. I hope next preview will answer this.
Concerning the new classes, I feel that it is far too soon to implement archetypes for them. They first have to go through a lot of real use so that both players and designers come to know them inside out, to identify their strengths, weaknesses and most of all idiosyncrasies. I believe it is the only way to create original and relevant archetypes that indeed answer the needs of the playerbase.
Why would he do that? That's epic level villiany there, Orcus would be proud. I mean, sure, he doesn't want us to see it before it's released- fine, but why bring it just to show us that it exists and we can't have it? Cruel.
Even Orcus wouldn't stoop that low :)
Our FLGS just did one of it's periodic customer auctions (customers bring in their used gaming supplies and the store auctions it off and gives store credit in return).
There was only one Paizo product (a core rulebook) in the auction. It went for $30, one of the higher bids for the night.
The owner also mentioned that Pathfinder was currently selling better than any of the other product lines.
His wife snorted and said it was selling better than all the other product lines together.
Thought you (and the devs) would like that anecdote. The store is celebrating it's 30th year in operation next year and bringing in people from the industry. The owner said he'd love to bring in some Paizo people, but their HQ is so far away (Seattle vs St. Louis) that he didn't think it would be possible. :(
You live in STL? Same here! What shop is this? I live in South STL, we can't find any real good hobby shops in the area. There's Gamer's Nite in South County Mall, but they're all mostly high schoolers playing way too much MtG (is that ever going to die?)
If it's Fantasy Shop, aren't they all the way in St. Charles? I wish they had a shop right in STL, near downtown or something. The drive there is too insane for me.
The one in south county is right next to Shogun. It's a lot smaller than the Saint Charles location though. Game Night isn't bad and I asked him to bring in Pathfinder originally. It's nice to know I'm not the only one here in Saint Louis buying, I was beginning to worry.
I will be picking up the advanced players guide, it looks awesome! I think the archetypes sold me.
