How is Todd Vanderboren (from Shackled City) related to Lavinia and Vanthus?
How is Todd Vanderboren (from Shackled City) related to Lavinia and Vanthus?A cousin, IIRC.
-Skeld
On Verrik's side?
I've actually not managed to figure out where Todd features in the Shackled City. I just have the collection and noticed him in the Appendix. I'm sort of curious as to Lavinia's family tree.
How is Todd Vanderboren (from Shackled City) related to Lavinia and Vanthus?A cousin, IIRC.
-Skeld
On Verrik's side?
I've actually not managed to figure out where Todd features in the Shackled City. I just have the collection and noticed him in the Appendix. I'm sort of curious as to Lavinia's family tree.
He's one of the Stormblades. The rival adventuring team.
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On Verrik's side?
I've actually not managed to figure out where Todd features in the Shackled City. I just have the collection and noticed him in the Appendix. I'm sort of curious as to Lavinia's family tree.
I think so. The Vanderborens are the Vankaskerkins of the old Dungeon APs. I vaguely remember Todd being adopted though, and not a true blood relative of Vanthus and Lavinia.
-Skeld
A question I have is how the family came to nobility. Shackled City said the Cauldron Vanderborens started as working-class people and worked their way up, while Savage Tide seems to state Verik and his wife were born into nobility and became adventurers before returning to run their estate in Sasserine.
Did Verik and Premiach come to nobility separately in different cities, or did one acheive the title first and help the other gain the same.
My theory for until something better comes along:
He became very successful there, eventually outdoing his brother from Sasserine.
Larissa was a commoner before marrying Verik. She traveled with Captain Madsen Atirr to the Isle of Dread before meeting him.
"Nobility" seems to be a very flexible term in the Sasserine area.
I remember reading something about the families declaring themselves nobility after the merchant princes had been defeated. I do not know whether I remember this correctly.
I remember reading something about the families declaring themselves nobility after the merchant princes had been defeated. I do not know whether I remember this correctly.
I don't recall that, but it could be. I do know that there is a Noble district and a Merchant district in Sasserine and the Vanderboren's reside in the latter.
In Sasserine, the Noble District seems to be for minor nobility and gentry. The most important families have compounds in the districts where they have their base of power.
Each city quarter has one or a few a few large noble compounds; presumably for the leading families/organizations of that quarter. There are three in Merchant's IIR - one is the harbormaster's family compound, one is the Vanderboren compound, and IIR the last is where the Kellani's are staying (all of this from memory).
This makes the Vanderborens of Sasserine rich to the level of true nobility, not just gentry.
It is mentioned in Savage Tide that Lavinaia and Vantus have (again IIR) an uncle who seems to be living on a country estate somewhere. Presumably Lavinia's father could have more siblings, one of whom is the father of Todd. Or Todd might even be a younger uncle, depending on how you set up the timelines of the two campaigns.
I think Pazio deliberately left this open to make the timelines as flexible as possible. I can't be sure, however, as I've not read Shackled City - actually I am currently a player in it.
It is mentioned in Savage Tide that Lavinaia and Vantus have (again IIR) an uncle who seems to be living on a country estate somewhere.
It is mentioned in Savage Tide that Lavinaia and Vantus have (again IIR) an uncle who seems to be living on a country estate somewhere. Presumably Lavinia's father could have more siblings, one of whom is the father of Todd. Or Todd might even be a younger uncle, depending on how you set up the timelines of the two campaigns.
** spoiler omitted **
Oh really? Ha that's rather funny.
My group and I are doing things a little backward. We started on Savage Tide, liked it went back and are currently running Age of Worms. Just to complete the irony I was thinking of running Shackled city afterwards.
They really did a good job of making those paths refer back to each other in a way that those who played through all three would enjoy, but those who hadn't wouldn't know they were missing anything.
For instance, the fallen astral deva in Shackled City makes a reappearance in Savage Tide. Savage Tide features a festival in celebration of the Age of Worms, Sasserine is near Cauldron and the Spire of Long Shadows, the Vanderborens, etc. Savage Tide even makes mention of Expedition to the Demonweb Pits, when they explain why Graz'zt isn't getting involved with the Savage Tide endgame.
Also, rereading the Age of Worms was cute when I saw the 'prophecies' that heralded the Age...all of them were recent adventures that had appeared in Dungeon, like Root of All Evil.
There are a lot of these references. Savage tide has references to earlier Dungeon adventures (e.g. Strike on the Rabid Dawn and Tammeraut's fate), but also to Queen of the spiders (1st edition, check the stuff in Vanthus's room in Vanderboren Manor).
For what its worth, my group has run the APs in order, (SC, AoW, ST). We are currently in Here There Be Monsters in ST. Due to events in previous APs, a minor change was made. Specifically, Todd Vanderboren IS Verrik. We made his full name Verrik Todd Vanderboren, but he hates the name Verrik.
In our Shackled City game, a bard of amazing capability not only made peace with the stormblades, but redeemed Todd as a person (at least, got him up to Chaotic Neutral). Todd was then taken over as a PC during a loose a player/gain a player situation. He became a very important character in the final stages of Shackled City. So important he became Lord Mayor of Cauldron (in a disguise) for a time, and even ended up marrying the fallen angle Nidrama.
So, I bent the timeframe a little so that Savage Tide would take place about twenty years after that. Lavina is the aissamar daughter of Todd (Verrik) and Nidrama (Larrisa). Vanthus is actually the first of the children they adopted (Todd being an orphan himself, and Nidrama being a NG angel, adoption made sense), and he is unaware of that fact, which I am using as much of his motivation and creepy obsession. The irony, that he succumbs to evil beleiving he is bad for desiring his sister, when in the end, she isn't actually related by blood.
The PCs in that game are all Vandeborn, the collective term for the Orphans given a second chance by the Vanderborens. There were two orphanages, a normal one, and a Special Needs building, for the less...normal...cases.
So the party is:
A sahuagain alchemist with personality issues.
A storm giantess (actually the Princess of Kongen-Thulnir from Age of Worms, rescued by a PC "nephew" of Todd in that AP)
A human summoner (who's powers come from something very old and very evil, but nobody knows that).
An elven ranger (who may or may not have a yuan-ti heritage).
But yeah, making Verrik into Todd made for a lot of fun tying the campaigns together, but it was a unique circumstance that made it possible. Here's hoping others get their own unique circumstances, cause they really do make the game into something larger and grander.
In SCAP, Todd's definitely adopted. It's on p. 97 of the hardback. But if it's more fun to work him into the family more deeply, why not?