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That's mostly true.. if you're a half-orc. Any other race and this feat could be a godsend. High Con but d6 hit dice? Take Diehard.
It's a strong feat at lower levels, but as his Con get higher and higher, healing him back to positive HP gets harder. If he's raging when using the feat, he could easily die when he stops.
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Its absolutely fine as a feat. It's even seen as sub optimal by many people; joking that Diehard is Diefast; as a combatant still up and fighting n negative hp is likely to attract attack rolls which may finish him off; it's usually safer to be down for the count than still drawing the attention of enemies.
Its absolutely fine as a feat. It's even seen as sub optimal by many people; joking that Diehard is Diefast; as a combatant still up and fighting n negative hp is likely to attract attack rolls which may finish him off; it's usually safer to be down for the count than still drawing the attention of enemies.
I completely agree.
I won't take this feat. Ever. Although, when I DM, I love to give it to the bad guys. Your average level 1 rogue without this feat, 5 or 6 HP to take him down. With this feat, 15 or 16 HP to take him down. That's at least 3x better than Toughness.
But as a PC, when I am at, say -8 HP and fall on my face, I might have 6 rounds or so (assuming a 14 CON) to stabilize or get a heal of some kind. But if I am on my feet at -8 HP and still in battle with active nasty stuff, all it takes is one little hit for 6 HP and I need a resurrection.
Nope, won't do it. If my swinging my sword one more time is the difference between a TPK or not, well, then TPK it is. And the group can blame me for not having Diehard. But all the rest of the time, my NOT having this feat will be the difference between a Cure Light Wounds and a Resurrection spell (with the expensive diamond) - and that difference might happen 5, 10, 20 times in my career. The TPK probably won't happen at all.
I'll take my chances without this feat.
Besides, I would much much much rather take a feat to help me kill the bad guys, like Power Attack or a few dozen other feats, or to help me avoid negative HP, like Toughness, or Dodge, or Lightning Reflexes, or several other feats. Taking feats that kill the enemies faster, or that prevent damage, will keep me from hitting negative HP and will be far more useful in winning fights and in conserving group healing resources.
And will be far far more useful in conserving group diamonds.
Another problem is that at higher levels, Diehard may never come into play, as you can easily be driven from a positive (but low) hp total straight into the grave by a monster's full attack.
Meh depends on your bluff check -- Fall down when you hit the negatives and act dead for a few seconds -- if they move on then you can do something to live -- if they go for the coup then you get an AoO (since you aren't dead or unconscious yet).
Meh depends on your bluff check -- Fall down when you hit the negatives and act dead for a few seconds -- if they move on then you can do something to live -- if they go for the coup then you get an AoO (since you aren't dead or unconscious yet).
Good call.
I might maybe consider it for a rogue. But I usually play the straight-up hero (paladin in our current game). He would never consider that in a million years.
It can save your life if you are medium-level Barbarian.
Note that if you get inconscious while raging the most probable outcome is instant death, because you loose the Con gained hps after you get into negaive hps.
So if you are a level 7 Barbarian, and your hps drop to -1 while raging, you end up with -15 hps.
However the Endurance prerequisite can be a wasted feat.
Diehard could also give you an extra round to disengage and regroup with the party cleric for some healing, instead of lying on the ground bleeding out hoping the cleric can get to you quickly enough.
Meh depends on your bluff check -- Fall down when you hit the negatives and act dead for a few seconds -- if they move on then you can do something to live -- if they go for the coup then you get an AoO (since you aren't dead or unconscious yet).Good call.
I might maybe consider it for a rogue. But I usually play the straight-up hero (paladin in our current game). He would never consider that in a million years.
Paladin's ironically can get some use out of it too -- if they drop to negatives it gives them that action to use their LoH to stay up without taking damage -- so your turn starts, you are in the negs, you LoH then full attack on the sorry SOB that attacked you.
I can't see how Endurance is nearly useless if it lets you sleep in medium and heavy armor without being fatigued. Then again, how many GM will call your fighter on that?
I do. And the two other GMs in my regular gaming group will too.
And when I play a fighter, or paladin, I am frequently caught without my armor. I don't wear my armor in town. I don't wear it when I'm taking meals at my inn or home. I don't wear it aboard ships or boats. And I don't wear it when I sleep (although when I'm adventuring, I will eat meals in my armor, so it comes off right before bed and goes on right after waking).
But I don't burn a feat on Endurance for it. That just strikes me as
1. a sub-optimal feat that could have been spent on something more useful
2. a cheesy way to avoid some interesting roleply and/or mechanical challenges of being caught out of armor.
Heck, in Burnt Offerings, my paladin was at the inn one morning, just before breakfast. He was outside in the inn-yard, working out and practicing his swordsmanship, wearing nothing but pants and boots, when an NPC ran in and told us there were problems - he had to go fight some goblins all sweaty and bare-chested because it was too urgent to spend the several minutes he would have needed to armor-up.
I can't see how Endurance is nearly useless if it lets you sleep in medium and heavy armor without being fatigued.
It is an ability that depends a lot of the DM, I have had 2 nigth encounters in 10 game levels i.e.
I completely agree.I won't take this feat. Ever.
Barbarians are very strongly encouraged to take this feat! Barbarians are very likely to die when they fall unconscious from going below 0, anyway, as that makes them drop out of rage and instantly drop levelx2 HP (or more with better rages), which often means you're at -CON or beyond!
Such a barbarian will disengage to seek healing as soon as he drops below levelx2 (or more) HP, anyway - extending this a bit increases your chances that a healer can get you back into save injury levels again!
I can't see how Endurance is nearly useless if it lets you sleep in medium and heavy armor without being fatigued. Then again, how many GM will call your fighter on that?
I definitely call fighters on that. And clerics (though that's not quite as much a problem as it used to be ;-)), and everyone else with heavier-than-light armour and no endurance.
Might be inconsequential in the tavern or some of the better magical shelters, but if you're out in the wilderness, there's always a chance of night-time encounters.
We call it in our group as well. Many of our heavy armour players have a second set of nothing special light armour in their haversacks for naptime.
Chainmail nightgown.
It has armoured bunnies on it!