Hi all.
The forum seems to be eating all of my posts, so I'll try to make this one quick. :)
I've got a PC in my RotRL campaign who's planning on going clr3/wiz3/mystic theurge. I've been trying to help him with his character build, but honestly, I still haven't completely adjusted myself to Pathfinder (but it's great so far!) and I haven't built a PC myself in a few years.
So, I could use some advice.
His stat line is approximately as follows. (He rolled pretty well.)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 16
WIS 18
CHA 14How can my PC overcome the caster level deficiencies for both casting classes, besides taking the old 3.5 "Practiced Spellcaster" feat twice?
Are there any really awesome cleric domain / wizard school power combinations?
Besides the metric ton of spells per day and the vast flexibility in the spells he can use, what other cool stuff might he be able to do?
How can he overcome or negate the Arcane Spell Failure penalty via feats and equipment? I am willing to allow portions of 3.5 on a case-by-case basis, so don't automatically discount your 3.5 suggestions.
Any help you could offer would be much appreciated!
The free "Character Traits" download here at Paizo has your solution. You get 2 character traits at creation (or you're supposed to at least, if you DM is nice) and here's a fun one: Magical Knack. It gives you +2 to your caster level to a given class, but will never raise your caster level above your character level.
If your DM is REALLY nice, he'll let your two traits be magical knack, in cleric and wizard respectively. It can make sense story-wise...not too hard to spin that you spent half your life with a powerful wizard and the other half with a powerful cleric. Mom n' dad seperated when you were a kid and shared custody. That should take care of you until you hit MT, although you may need to take Practiced Spellcaster to finish off the 20-level progression when you finish MT.
Hi all.
The forum seems to be eating all of my posts, so I'll try to make this one quick. :)
I've got a PC in my RotRL campaign who's planning on going clr3/wiz3/mystic theurge. I've been trying to help him with his character build, but honestly, I still haven't completely adjusted myself to Pathfinder (but it's great so far!) and I haven't built a PC myself in a few years.
So, I could use some advice.
His stat line is approximately as follows. (He rolled pretty well.)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 16
WIS 18
CHA 14How can my PC overcome the caster level deficiencies for both casting classes, besides taking the old 3.5 "Practiced Spellcaster" feat twice?
Are there any really awesome cleric domain / wizard school power combinations?
Besides the metric ton of spells per day and the vast flexibility in the spells he can use, what other cool stuff might he be able to do?
How can he overcome or negate the Arcane Spell Failure penalty via feats and equipment? I am willing to allow portions of 3.5 on a case-by-case basis, so don't automatically discount your 3.5 suggestions.
Any help you could offer would be much appreciated!
Having played a MT from level 1 my first suggestion would be don't. It is frustrating to always be that weak. You will be ok from 1-3 then fall behind from 4-6, then work your way up to mediocre from 7-10, then have some high level spells from 11-17, but not nearly as powerful as your companions or enemies. I would really suggest the witch class it has a nice blend of traditional arcane and divine spells.
If however you are going to ignore my first advice focus on things where caster level doesn't matter so much. Buffs, Battlefield control, Summoning(though they will be weak compared to a single class caster) make lower caster level not hurt so much. Still spell allows you to cast with a tower shield in one hand, a corndog in the other and wearing full plate, or you can take the armor training feats if you don't mind giving up your swift action.
Another option is to use this level 20 pathfind friendly rebuild of the MT as a 20 level base class http://www.barroks-tower.net/tower/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=6197 which I consider much better than the MT prestige class.
Hi all.
The forum seems to be eating all of my posts, so I'll try to make this one quick. :)
I've got a PC in my RotRL campaign who's planning on going clr3/wiz3/mystic theurge. I've been trying to help him with his character build, but honestly, I still haven't completely adjusted myself to Pathfinder (but it's great so far!) and I haven't built a PC myself in a few years.
So, I could use some advice.
His stat line is approximately as follows. (He rolled pretty well.)
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 16
WIS 18
CHA 14How can my PC overcome the caster level deficiencies for both casting classes, besides taking the old 3.5 "Practiced Spellcaster" feat twice?
Are there any really awesome cleric domain / wizard school power combinations?
Besides the metric ton of spells per day and the vast flexibility in the spells he can use, what other cool stuff might he be able to do?
How can he overcome or negate the Arcane Spell Failure penalty via feats and equipment? I am willing to allow portions of 3.5 on a case-by-case basis, so don't automatically discount your 3.5 suggestions.
Any help you could offer would be much appreciated!
hmm.. well since you are the GM in this case, have you considered using a Magic Rating system ?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/magicRating.htm
basically it allows caster levels to stack together to give any character a single casterlevel. Especially in the case of mystic theurge I see no reason for a feat / trait tax.
For my players I keep it simple, spellcasting clases get 1 casterlevel for each level, non-spellcasters get 1 casterlevel for every 2 levels.
The link above has the original Magic Rating system you might like the detail better.
Has your player considered the Witch class? The witch's spell list is a good mix of cleric and wizard (and druid) spells, and they get some cool special abilities ("hexes").
If he has his heart set on the Mystic Theurge class, I don't have much to suggest.
Meh if you want it I did a 20 level rebuild of the mystic theurge:
When making it I based everything off of two basic ideas:
1. Mystic theurges should have more spell slots over all (but not too much more)
2. Mystic theurges should be a bit behind everyone else (besides the bard) when getting new spell levels.
Raising caster level with the feat or trait is highly recommended. I'd also suggest focusing on spells which scale with level. If you can get your caster level back up to "normal" you're not paying as much of a cost for casting lower level spells.
As a 10th level MT you can get Black Tentacles, and it will be at full grappling power. Fireball will also do the full 10d6 damage. Metamagic rods could be especially useful for the MT. Lesser Empower will take that Fireball up to 52 average damage, about the same as a full wizard could accomplish at 10th level (Cone of Cold is still only 10d6). Heck, it might even be worth taking Craft Rod. You can't get higher level spells, but you can make the ones you have act like higher level spells, and you'll have lots of them.
On the Cleric side, you'll probably want the Healing domain to get Empowered healing.
As a Mystic Theurge, may I suggest with his scores he goes Cleric 3/Wizard 3/Mystic Theurge 10/Cleric 4, and possibly UMD skill-ranks so as to be able to handle 8-9th level Wizard/Sorcerer spellcasting items such as Scrolls, Staves and so forth. being a 13th level Wizard will net him access to 7th level Spells, which will be kickass in the Damage/Battlefield control department and most of the mid-level ass-kicking spells will be accessible.
For the Cleric ... go Mithril Buckler or Light Mithril Shield and grab a Mithril Chain Shirt so that the character is only dealing with a 10% spell failure of his Wizardly spells, which is a 1 in 10 chance, which is fairly low unless the Dice Gods decide it's time for a sacrifice.
As a Mystic Theurge, grab Spectral Hand or a Familiar (if he's not fussed about passing up the Bonded Item's lovely bonus spell at highest level, effectively doubling his 7th level spells-per-day) so he can do ranged healing, as with a Wizard's hitpoints and that many spells, attacking in melee isn't going to be a good idea. Being able to heal without having to run up, tap somebody on the shoulder then run off to the next guy can be a lot of fun!
For Wizard ... go Evoker and take Necromancy and Diviniation as your 'prohibited' schools. Then, as a Cleric, go for spells that will buff, heal and stock up on Divination spells. This way, your character is covering all the bases they possibly can. Mystic Theurge can be a pain at times when compared in outright power to other classes but in reality their abilities are spread over a wider area, enabling the Mystic Theurge to basically cover nearly any base effectively, if not effortlessly.
Over in this thread I posted a couple of suggestions. Some high points:
1) As thegreenteagamer mentioned, the trait Magical Knack is extremely helpful. Per the trait rules, you can only take it for one casting class. However, if you allow the 3.5 feat Practiced Spellcaster, that allow you to avoid most of the hit to caster level. Magical Knack grants +2 to CL in once class while Practiced Spellcaster grants +4, both not to exceed HD. With 16 Int and 18 Wis, I recommend Magical Knack (Wizard) and Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric); cleric CL will be at full character level and wizard CL will be at character level -1. If you don't allow Practiced Spellcaster and follow the RAW on traits, then take Magical Knack (Cleric).
2) With 18 Wis, I recommend starting as a cleric for three levels, then switching to wizard for three levels. Domain choice as a cleric should be determined mostly on the bonus spell list over the domain powers (since there will be almost no progression). Especially look for spells that are not available on either the cleric or wizard spell list or will be from opposition schools if you choose to specialize as a wizard. Charm (for heroism), Fire (for various fire Evocations), Glory (for bless weapon and later holy sword), Plant (for barkskin), Sun (for heat metal, searing light, and fire Evocations), and Trickery (for invisibility) are all worth looking at.
3) Specializing in an arcane school is also recommended, unless the character concept indicates otherwise, for the extra spell slots. A mystic theurge will be one or two spell levels behind a straight caster with their highest level spells, but will usually have more spell slots in the spell levels they can cast (counting both classes) if they specialize. For instance, at cleric 3/wizard (specialist) 3, your character will have 0-4 Clr/4 Wiz, 1st-3+1 Clr/3+1 Wiz, 2nd- 2+1 Clr/2+1 Wiz (8 0-level, 8 1st, 6 2nd) while a cleric 6 with the same ability scores will have 0-4, 1st-4+1, 2nd-4+1, 3rd-3+1 (4 0-level, 5 1st, 5 2nd, 4 3rd).
4) Use magic item creation feats like Scribe Scroll (free as a wizard) and Craft Wand (available at cleric 3/wizard 2 with Magical Knack (Cleric) or Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)) to expand your versatility. As a mystic theurge, you should have a spell (either prepared, scribed on a scroll, or in a wand) for almost every occasion.
5) Be prepared to revert to a supporting role and avoid front-line combat for a few levels (use wands with ranged touch attacks, such as acid arrow or scorching ray, or cast battlefield control spells); generally speaking, you should wait until you can take Arcane Armor Training (I recommend taking it at cleric 3/wizard 3/mystic theurge 1) and gain access to heroism (available as a 3rd level wizard spell at mystic theurge 2) before considering acting as a melee combatant again. Mage armor (and possibly barkskin) can help keep your AC up, but you'll need the added protection of magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law and magic vestment (both 3rd level cleric spells available at mystic theurge 2) on a mithral chain shirt, as well as heroism to counteract your lower BAB, if you want to be effective. Another key 3rd level (wizard) spell is haste.
6) Choose your Arcane Bond item wisely! Your best choices are probably a mace, ring, or staff; this lets you improve it as a weapon (mace or staff) at mystic theurge 2, ring at mystic theurge 4, rod (mace) at mystic theurge 6, and/or staff at mystic theurge 8 without needing the normal item creation feat. For the best "bang for the buck," mace and staff are probably better than ring.
I disagree with the naysayers. Your player picked the perfect class for your current group. He will be the most powerful caster in the party, both Arcane and Divine!
With your house rule of allowing him to stack his caster levels, he will have no problems with the power of his spells or penetrating spell resistance. Still, his save DC will probably be a little lower because he can't just focus on either Int or Wis. I would suggest that he focus on battlefield control spells.
Grease, Stinking Cloud, Web, the various wall spells are all good. Even though some of those have saves they are still effective even if they do make it. I wouldn't worry about summoning too much, the creatures won't be strong enough to make a difference in combat and the Mystic Theurge is so versatile that he doesn't gain much from their special abilities. I guess they would be good as destructible obstacles and can give the rogue a flank buddy if needed. Also good for finding traps. ;-)
All the buff spells are good. Protection from Evil is good versus enchants and summoned creatures. Once he gets Haste the other players (all melee apparently) will love him. Without a doubt Haste will be his highest damage spell. Every extra attack that the other players make is effectively the damage that he has done with that one spell.
Arcane Armor Training is a good feat coupled with a mithril chain shirt, but really he should be nowhere near combat. If he is forced into it spells like Mirror Image and Invisibility will server him better. Just turn invisible and then cast Haste on all of the other party members. Then walk around invisible and buff and heal as necessary.
*casts Ressurrect Thread*
Meh if you want it I did a 20 level rebuild of the mystic theurge:
When making it I based everything off of two basic ideas:
1. Mystic theurges should have more spell slots over all (but not too much more)
2. Mystic theurges should be a bit behind everyone else (besides the bard) when getting new spell levels.
Sorry for the bit of necromancy there but I'd really like to see that 20 level version of the MT. Unfortunately the link doesn't work (anymore?) and searching the barroks-towers forums didn't help either.
Would someone happen to have another link to this (or another) MT base class?