Personally I think this is completely viable. When you take into consideration how weak the majority of rage powers are, I think this starts to lvl the playing field.
Though if it is an official rulling I would imagine that some people could be asking to remake their barbarians from the ground up.
Just as fluff, raging for 5.5 seconds out of every 6 second period doesn't fly with me. I'm going to discuss this with the barbarian PC in my new campaign so he is aware of my predisposition, but I won't allow turning on and off rage every round to gain additional uses of 1/rage rage powers. The 1/rage powers will basically become 1/combat powers.
And the issue isn't just with tireless rage, having other PCs in the party that can remove fatigue (and at much lower levels) causes the same issue to arise.
i just consider it an optional tactic that any barbarian can use, honestly i did this same thing using the rage power renewed vigor but i did it before 17th level, i just dealt with the fatigue until i could turn my rage back on.
remember you are using up one of your rage uses in a way every time you want to reuse a once per rage power so it really isn't that cheap.
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If you think it's too powerful, just make a small house rule that a barbarian has to wait at least one round without rage in between rages, regardless of lack of fatigue. So a barbarian with tireless rage *can* flip in and out of rages, but it would be one round of rage, one round without, one round with, one round without, etc.
If you don't think the powers are that powerful, then just let the barbarian 'flip on and off'. Call it the benefits of being that high of a level.
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To answer your questions:
1) Yes, it's legal by the RAW
2) It's a pretty cheap tactic, certainly kinda munchkiny. If the 17th lvl barbarian is having problems keeping up with the rest of the party, then I might introduce house rules (feats and what not that benefit the barbarian directly), rather then allow this wacky strobe light of anger effects.
To help you with your tag questions:
Click the spoiler button to see how they should look.
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Tireless rage:
Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.There are a handful of rage powers usable 1/d. For purposes of this discussion let's focus on one I consider particularly good, Unexpected Strike:
The barbarian can make an attack of opportunity against a foethat moves into any square threatened by the barbarian, regardless of whether or not that movement would normally provoke an attack of opportunity. This power can only be used once per rage. A barbarian must be at least 8th level before selecting this power.
Finally, some relevant information from the description of rage itself:
So let's put these three together.A barbarian can enter rage as a free action...A barbarian can end her rage as a free action and is fatigued after rage for a number of
rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in the rage....
- Can a L17+ barbarian turn his rage on and off every round, renewing his once/rage rage powers on his action every turn? For example, could a barbarian with unexpected strike and tireless rage turn his rage on and off each round to always get 1 AoO/round on enemies who simply approach him?
- Even if possible, is this a cheap tactic? Or is this just fair reward for a L17 barbarian struggling to keep pace with a L17 fighter or paladin? A reward for slogging through levels 4-16, when the barbarian may not have held up as well, comparatively.
re: the main topic,
if your group is thinking it is at all overpowered, i think simply limiting it so that you can either turn on or turn off rage each turn helps: that means if you want to ´restart´rage next turn to use a ¨1/rage¨ power again, you have to give up using your ¨defensive¨powers off your turn (unexpected strike, rolling dodge, etc), or vice versa if you want to restart rage so you can use a defensive power again, you must give up using rage during your own actions.
about your tags:
you can start by copy+pasting the example tags shown under the post entry field and replacing the content with your own.
your problem looks like you´re putting the text you want to apply the style to (i.e. bold) INSIDE the brackets, where they don´t belong. You need to make TWO sets of brackets, one before the text you want to style, and one after (with a ¨/¨ before the style signifier). The only time you put any of ¨your own¨ text inside a bracket is for URL links, you place the http://crap inside the FIRST bracket and WHATEVER YOU WANT TO APPEAR between the brackets (i.e. ¨click here¨).
the examples do exactly this. I will quote what your first post did wrong
[/QUOTE Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.]
The bolded parts are wrong. You need a [style] bracket followed by your content followed by [/style], like ¨[style]stuff[/style]¨. (For some reason the capitilization changes between different styles)
It's ridiculous to use it like this. But, it's necessary, barbarians are a horrible class and when they get to 17 (hardly easy to do) this is a good help. I wouldn't allow it to fly, the on off stuff. But I would make all rage powers become once per round, instead of once per rage.
Yeah ... THIS is the MOST ridiculous change that I've seen in D20 format EVER! BAR NONE!!!!
Rage on/rage off is garbage, from top to bottom.
At the same time, given the direction PF went with their final version of the barbarian vs. the Beta's rules ... the whole class is wrong-headed.
My own fix? I re-built the WHOLE CLASS rather than use that garbage they try to pass of as a "barbarian" now.
It's not even like I'm the greatest barbarian fan in the world, either (actually rather far from it), but when I see a concept just get screwed over in mechanics, something visceral kicks in and I must act to right my perceived wrong.
So, yeah ... I just went and re-did the whole class in a 20-level progression and messed around with quite a few elements of the class to something that *I* felt was both more reflective of the concept in the first place, and then "up to par" w/the other PF class updates given out.
It's worked out very well for me and my players so far ...
I'll look around and post a link or something in a bit.
Wow speaker, you seem to have a lot of rage concerning the barbarian class... [/badjoke]
Yup - "visceral" man ... I can't even explain it as I've NOT been a long standing fan of the class or anything.
However, unabashedly - yes - I clearly take issue with the final product and am eagerly awaiting the APG's options for the barbarian as the company itself said they noted problems and wanted to fix them in the APG.
I'm willing to look at what they did, but not to wait until something was released to go ahead and make some option that was playable and *fun* vs. what was put out there.
I've seen a few threads allude to this question, but I haven't seen any address it head on (my apologies if I missed one). (This will also be my first post with BBCode tags, so apologies for that too)
Tireless rage:
[/QUOTE Starting at 17th level, a barbarian no longer becomes fatigued at the end of her rage.]There are a handful of rage powers usable 1/d. For purposes of this discussion let's focus on one I consider particularly good, Unexpected Strike: "
[/QUOTE The barbarian can make an attack of opportunity against a foethat moves into any square threatened by the barbarian, regardless of whether or not that movement would normally provoke an attack of opportunity. This power can only be used once per rage. A barbarian must be at least 8th level before selecting this power.]Finally, some relevant information from the description of rage itself:
[/QUOTE A barbarian can enter rage as a free action...A barbarian can end her rage as a free action and is fatigued after rage for a number of
rounds equal to 2 times the number of rounds spent in the rage....]So let's put these three together.
1. Can a L17+ barbarian turn his rage on and off every round, renewing his once/rage rage powers on his action every turn? For example, could a barbarian with unexpected strike and tireless rage turn his rage on and off each round to always get 1 AoO/round on enemies who simply approach him?2. Even if possible, is this a cheap tactic? Or is this just fair reward for a L17 barbarian struggling to keep pace with a L17 fighter or paladin? A reward for slogging through levels 4-16, when the barbarian may not have held up as well, comparatively.
Edited for grammar. Sorry about the tags.
At my table, we improved some of the pozers slightly and mashed some together (infra vision, raging climber, raging swimmer, etc) as well as add some 40 rage powers divided in trees. Since all of this made the barbarian overall more powerful, we houseruled that after raging for X rounds, if he rages again within X (same X) rounds of his las rage, he will not benefit from tireless rage.