Ok. A free action can be taken at any time during your turn, right?
Storing and retrieving an item from a Glove of Storing is a free action.
Does this mean that a level 11 fighter with a glove on their left hand, wielding a longsword in their right, could do a full attack, using the longsword in two hands, and upon finishing their three attacks, summon a short sword from the glove and get their three off-hand attacks if they had the required two-weapon fighting feats?
Is there something preventing this?
If this won't work for some reason, is it possible to do this same thing with a greatsword, release your grip on the greatsword after your attacks, and summon a shield at the end of your turn? Sure, you'd take a -2 penalty for your AoO but who cares.
Well pulling the short sword may be a free action, but full attacking isn't. They have already full-attacked with the long sword which is a full-round action, so that's the end of their turn, they have a longsword in one hand and a short sword in the other. Next round they can TWF, or put the short sword away.
Well pulling the short sword may be a free action, but full attacking isn't. They have already full-attacked with the long sword which is a full-round action, so that's the end of their turn, they have a longsword in one hand and a short sword in the other. Next round they can TWF, or put the short sword away.
So can you not take a free action *during* a full attack? If that's the case, then I'd definitely agree.
Not that I'd even dream of doing this as a player or DM. It'd be the most munchkinesque thing imaginable with this item, but yeah.
I'm actually hoping the weapon juggling cheese isn't possible, but the second part regarding the shield seems like an interesting use of the item.
As for the shield idea, it will not work. While it is a free action to summon the shield, that only places the shield in your grasp. For it to have any effect defensively, you have to strap it onto your arm (a standars action).
I don't think so, and if it was in the middle of the full attack, you'd lose the two handed benefit for the rest of the attack anyway - you can't make your last attack and then say "Hang on, I haven't finished full attacking!" It doesn't work like that - when you attack with TWF the attacks are treated as alternating, but are realistically delivered as opportunity presents. If you make your full attack with the longsword, that's your full attack done. If you make it with TWF, you can't decide to fight with just one weapon at a time.
As for the shield idea, it might work, but I'd be inclined to say that you won't gain much benefit from it. What you gain in the shield you lose in the fact you have a bloody great greatsword you can't use to properly help defend yourself. It might be worth doing against missiles though.
Edit: Ninja'd by Grandfather! He has a point, unless it is a shield with a single hand-grip like some bucklers, you are stuck.
So can you not take a free action *during* a full attack? If that's the case, then I'd definitely agree.Not that I'd even dream of doing this as a player or DM. It'd be the most munchkinesque thing imaginable with this item, but yeah.
I'm actually hoping the weapon juggling cheese isn't possible, but the second part regarding the shield seems like an interesting use of the item.
You can indeed take free actions in the middle of a full round action (even a full-attack).
If you have iterative attacks you can for instance take one. Then ake a 5' step and make the second attack.
It will not work in the above example though. TWF involves a penalty on attacks, so unless you state your intention from the start and apply the relevant penalties, drawing the shortsword will not allow you to attack with it.
Look at it this way. If you are holding a longsword and a shortsword in each hand, you can declare that you are only attacking with one weapon and thus do not entail any TWF penalties. When you are done attacking you cannot then declare "well... about that other weapon, I will take a swing with it anyway!". TWF is a choice you make before rolling any attack rolls.
As for the shield idea, it will not work. While it is a free action to summon the shield, that only places the shield in your grasp. For it to have any effect defensively, you have to strap it onto your arm (a standars action).
Ah, right. Move action, but same reasoning applies. Part of it is in your hand even in use but you're getting into weird areas such as does it keep the same orientation as when stored, or how exactly do you have to hold an item to store it. Probably best to just say, "Not intended." :P
All good points. Would there be anything preventing you from stating that intent to begin with? I wasn't thinking of it so much as an "Ah ha!" but rather a thought out tactical decision, all penalties incurred as necessary.
Come to think of it, I think this whole concept is pretty much akin to the greatsword + spiked gauntlet two weapon fighting cheese. I didn't really think about it that way.
I believe you have to attack with your highest attack bonus first and your lowest attack bonus last. So for TWF, that means you have to alternate hands, IMO:
"If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first."
But there's nothing inherently wrong with using a two-handed weapon with TWF, though (for instance, greatsword + armor spikes, or greatsword + unarmed strike).
If this won't work for some reason, is it possible to do this same thing with a greatsword, release your grip on the greatsword after your attacks, and summon a shield at the end of your turn? Sure, you'd take a -2 penalty for your AoO but who cares.
As it has been said, the shield idea doesn't work with a glove of storing.
But it would if you use a ring of shielding instead, but you are then unable to make AoOs with your greatsword. It works better with a bastard sword and the EWP feat => you make your full attack as a two-handed weapon and at the end of your round, you wield it with one hand and activate the ring.
I believe you have to attack with your highest attack bonus first and your lowest attack bonus last. So for TWF, that means you have to alternate hands, IMO:
"If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first."
Ah! You're absolutely right. So uh.. it'd be possible, kind of, but it'd require storing and unstoring the thing 3 times, 5 or 6 free actions, which definitely would be pushing the limits of what could be considered "free." So while not explicitly disallowed, I'd definitely be inclined to rule against it. You could probably reasonably squeeze one attack in at the higher BAB if you really wanted to do it.
Plus, if I am not mistaken, some people say if you take a free action, you end your full attack action.
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Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally.
There is also said that DMs should decide if particular free action could be done (or done a few times during a round).But only if you state in the beginning of the round that you will use TWF, taking the normal penalties.
However, you can normally only declare this action when you already have a weapon in your off-hand.
So the answer is: You can attack 2H with your longsword, then summon a short sword in your hand, but you will not be able to attack with it, because you have not been able to declare a TWF action.
I don't see how this is any different from declaring a TWF fighting action while wielding a greatsword, taking all your greatsword attacks, letting go of it with one hand, Quick Drawing a short sword, and taking your TWF attacks. And as cheesy as that is, it has been confirmed to be rules-legal (by the 3.5 FAQ, anyway, and the wording has not changed between editions), so I would certainly allow using the Gloves of Storing to do the same - basically by paying for the magic item, you are negating the need to take Quick Draw.
MaxAstro:
I think the issue was avoiding the TWF penalty to the "main" weapon. I agree, you can do it, but I don't think you can avoid the TWF penalties.
I'm with Jason on this one. Once you have completed all your attacks with the greatsword sans TWF penalties, that's it - your full attack, and your full round action, are over. If you want to use the two together, you need to use them together form the start.
MaxAstro:
I think the issue was avoiding the TWF penalty to the "main" weapon. I agree, you can do it, but I don't think you can avoid the TWF penalties.
Agreed. If you want to TWF then you have to suck up the penalties.
You have to decide if you perform full-attack, and what kind of full attack after you do your first attack.
You should use the same kind of attack used for the first attack, but the rules have no information about that.
The shield use is imposible afaik, the glove puts the item on your hand, you hold the shield, but you have to wear the shield (1 move action) in order to get the AC bonus.