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Ive been looking through the library of content for pathfinder, there seems to be a huge amount of it. What will this mess look like in 5 years? Is this the way content distribution has gone in the past?
I know people complain about WOTC, and their many books, but that is nothing compared to this. I guess that is different though; because the complaint there is about new rule books.
There is just so much.
Ive been looking through the library of content for pathfinder, there seems to be a huge amount of it. What will this mess look like in 5 years? Is this the way content distribution has gone in the past?
I know people complain about WOTC, and their many books, but that is nothing compared to this. I guess that is different though; because the complaint there is about new rule books.
There is just so much.
Well most of the content is setting material, not rules. And when it comes to setting material or adventure paths you can use as much or as little as you want with virtually no effect. I think it is rules bloat that people were concerned with, not the overall amount of 'content'. And in terms of RPG rules, pathfinder is pretty light so far.
my gaming group never worries about those sort of books, we run a home-brew game so we have no need for settings books. we only ever buy the core rule books.
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Ive been looking through the library of content for pathfinder, there seems to be a huge amount of it. What will this mess look like in 5 years? Is this the way content distribution has gone in the past?
I know people complain about WOTC, and their many books, but that is nothing compared to this. I guess that is different though; because the complaint there is about new rule books.
There is just so much.
I find there is too much content on the internet...
Ive been looking through the library of content for pathfinder, there seems to be a huge amount of it. What will this mess look like in 5 years? Is this the way content distribution has gone in the past?
I know people complain about WOTC, and their many books, but that is nothing compared to this. I guess that is different though; because the complaint there is about new rule books.
There is just so much.
I hear you, yet I disagree. The only content that exists mechanics-wise is the Core book and the Beastiary.
Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.
The point is that you are 100% able to ignore any content you wish.
But really, what are you asking for? Paizo to stop publishing? While I understand what compels you to post, I don't have any idea what the desired outcome is.
Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.
Where did they say this?
I know people complain about WOTC, and their many books, but that is nothing compared to this.
I think the vast majority of complaints regarding WoTC product glut was the slipping quality and that oddly increasing font size.
Plus, as you mentioned, they were mostly rulebooks, so they weren't the most captivating reads, even if you happened to have your interest sparked by the particular sub-sub-subset of world running and/or character creation covered by the new rulebook du jour.
Where did they say this?
Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.
It was more or less that they won't use the new base classes from the APG very much in adventures. Not that there would be a total ban of them.
Since, each time they do use one of the new classes, they would need to provide a full stat block for the NPC since the core assumption is that they write the adventures assuming folks only have the core rulebook and bestiary. The full stat block takes up more space in their limited pages, so they use them sparingly if possible.
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I hear you, yet I disagree. The only content that exists mechanics-wise is the Core book and the Beastiary.
Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.
The point is that you are 100% able to ignore any content you wish.
But really, what are you asking for? Paizo to stop publishing? While I understand what compels you to post, I don't have any idea what the desired outcome is.
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Heh, no I do not think they should stop publishing. I guess I really don't have a specific out some that I desire as a result of my post. my post was just some thoughts I had, after all isn't that what forums are for, posting thoughts?
I just have a hard time with lots of content. When I start some thing I go whole hog, and that means I am compelled to try to collect all of the published content, which is going to be very costly, should I try to do that.
Heh, no I do not think they should stop publishing. I guess I really don't have a specific out some that I desire as a result of my post. my post was just some thoughts I had, after all isn't that what forums are for, posting thoughts?I just have a hard time with lots of content. When I start some thing I go whole hog, and that means I am compelled to try to collect all of the published content, which is going to be very costly, should I try to do that.
I can understand that. I started with just the AP subscription...and then last year things just bloomed into nearly every line they have. I've even started going back and buying all the little bits I've missed as I can. It does get very expensive very quickly ;).
Creative Director
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Actually, you WILL see us use APG and other content in our adventures. We'll reprint all the material needed to run those classes, though, just as we reprint full stat blocks for monsters we use from non-Bestiary sources.
As for how things will look in 5 years... we'll see! Managing the spread of content and rules and such is certainly a challenge.
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I hear you, yet I disagree. The only content that exists mechanics-wise is the Core book and the Beastiary.
Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.
The point is that you are 100% able to ignore any content you wish.
But really, what are you asking for? Paizo to stop publishing? While I understand what compels you to post, I don't have any idea what the desired outcome is.
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Heh, no I do not think they should stop publishing. I guess I really don't have a specific out some that I desire as a result of my post. my post was just some thoughts I had, after all isn't that what forums are for, posting thoughts?
I just have a hard time with lots of content. When I start some thing I go whole hog, and that means I am compelled to try to collect all of the published content, which is going to be very costly, should I try to do that.
This is why I love the subscriptions so much.
Persoanlly, I just enjoy reading the background material, even though my present group may never get to Katapesh or the River Kingdoms.
But with the subscription/PDF benefit, I can have hard copies of everything to read when I want, and keep the PDFs on a flash drive to use whenever I need to look something up...
Player wants to be a cleric of Iomedae...now theres a 6 page article on that, here: read this...(open laptop)
Its great to have that background material avaialable for when you do want minutiuea(sp?) but not have to carry it with you.
My players are in Varisia, but now we have both a Paladin AND a Cleric of Sarenrae in the party...guess who gets to read excerpts from LOF?
Anyway, I like the content, I like the modules and AP, and I like the QUALITY of the adventures and material. Even the stories are awesome.
But I can see that in 5 more years, we'll have 10 more AP arcs, several dozen and so on.
Personally, I can't wait...
But if you include the APG stuff in the online official PRD, you could save the space by referencing the website :)
What about those of us that aren't allowed to use the internet because umm... I might be Amish on Thursdays?
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But if you include the APG stuff in the online official PRD, you could save the space by referencing the website :)
I think somewhere they have said all the APG will be OGLed and on the PRD site. Not sure where.
I suspect the PRD will be a massive site before too long with bestiary II added later this year. I am more wondering how much of the GMG will be put into it.
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Creative Director
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But if you include the APG stuff in the online official PRD, you could save the space by referencing the website :)
We could... but not everyone has access to the internet, and a lot of people who DO don't during their games.
Someday that'll probably change. That day might come sooner than we all think.
For now, the idea is to reprint rules and content as needed in order to make adventures and the like as self-contained as possible.
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Creative Director
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Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.
I'm not sure we actually said that. I know I said we wouldn't be putting the new iconics in as pre-gen characters, but I can confirm that as soon as "Souls for Smuggler's Shiv," the first Serpent's Skull adventure which comes out the same day as the APG, will have APG content. (There's a witch NPC in the adventure.)
In any case, we do have to keep producing content—that's what the industry's all about. We actually DO have plans for how to manage the content and what we'll be releasing and how and why and when, but we don't reveal our long-term plans publicly.
So I guess the best I can say is that we are aware of the dangers of oversaturating the market, and it's something we are keeping in mind when we build our schedules.
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For now, the idea is to reprint rules and content as needed in order to make adventures and the like as self-contained as possible.
Not to mention that it's easier to reference. I'd much rather have it reprinted with the monster as an easy reference than have to pop onto the PRD and find it on site.
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I actually don't mind the amount of information coming out in terms of page count.
My problem with the pace has actually become one of not being able to mentally consolidate it - and more importantly, make practical game-time use of it.
For instance; Lamashtu shows up in an article in a PF Path, Gods and Magic, the Campaign Setting and the Gazetteer. Each one of those may or may not add more information than the last.
Now ... granted ... that's not exactly a bad problem to have, but I am finding it harder and harder to remember "where I saw that cool <insert idea/fact/hook>".
I think of modules as comics with your players as the heroes.
How many superman comics are there?
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Well, it wasn't just "rules-bloat"...
Many people didn't play/run/use the Forgotten Realms because of too much lore. Granted, that lore was spread out over 21 years, but Golarion has the potential to match that in a much shorter time period...
I personally do not have a problem with this, nor did I have a problem with the amount of FR material made available…
But I do realize some did...
Just my thoughts on the subject...
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-
Paizo has said that we won't be seeing the APG classes for instance within adventure paths, specifically because they don't intend to make assumptions that players have purchased the APG. Same logic applies to all the other imaginary content they've sold.I'm not sure we actually said that. I know I said we wouldn't be putting the new iconics in as pre-gen characters, but I can confirm that as soon as "Souls for Smuggler's Shiv," the first Serpent's Skull adventure which comes out the same day as the APG, will have APG content. (There's a witch NPC in the adventure.)
I'm sorry James, I badly mis-expressed myself. I knew you'd use the content, but not in the same way you do the core classes. Instead, they'd have to be complete self-contained rule sets (which again do not assume the DM/players) have bought the APG. I misspoke saying you'd not use the content when I meant you'd not require the purchase of the APG. Same point, said wrong. My apologies are yours.
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Now ... granted ... that's not exactly a bad problem to have, but I am finding it harder and harder to remember "where I saw that cool <insert idea/fact/hook>".
Now, if you help write articles / look to The Wiki many of those questions can be answered by the reference sections of articles... we can always use more contributors, just saying...
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Now, if you help write articles / look to The Wiki many of those questions can be answered by the reference sections of articles... we can always use more contributors, just saying...
Touche.
The wiki is great, and I do use it, but it's the really small stuff that I'm trying to find a better way to track; ie. the shoanti hawk clan hangs out at the base of the storval stairs. A single sentence in 96 pages.
That's going to be brilliant when my party heads that way in RotRL 4. Thing is, I found it in like PF 9? (8 maybe, I dunno, I've lost the reference already).
The big stuff; the cultures, the lands, eras ... that's the easy stuff, it's the minutia, the off-hand sentence, I'm trying to track better.
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Ive been looking through the library of content for pathfinder, there seems to be a huge amount of it. What will this mess look like in 5 years? Is this the way content distribution has gone in the past?
You have to realize that "Pathfinder" is multiple product lines in 2 categories.
System = 1 product line (click here)
Campaign Setting = 5 product lines (Modules, Adventure Paths, Companions, Chronicles, and novels.)
I know people complain about WOTC, and their many books, but that is nothing compared to this. I guess that is different though; because the complaint there is about new rule books.
Actually it's not. If you just play the roleplaying game, you should only have 2 books and maybe a screen. You have no reason to buy Setting books.
It seems you're either confusing the setting and the game, or your complaining about the setting books in the wrong forum. ;)
There is just so much.
Not nearly as many books as wizard of the coast put out for 3.0 and 3.5 systems.
WOTC put out a lot of system books and ignored their settings.
Paizo putting out a lot of setting books and moderate system books.
If WOTC had focused more on releasing Realms, Lance, and Ravenloft books under their own imprint (instead of licensing everything except the Realms out) they would have printed far fewer "splat" books for 3.5, believe me.
The problem isn't that there's too much content. More content gives more options. Sometimes it's over-bloated splat, but your DM can just go 'Yeah, no..."
The problem is that the content is displayed in a ramshackle mad-scientist's-library manner. The Paizo website and online shop are disgusting to navigate and search. If it was easier to find what you wanted, there wouldn't be a problem.
The community Wiki is an okay start, but there is much room for improvement.
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If WOTC had focused more on releasing Realms, Lance, and Ravenloft books under their own imprint (instead of licensing everything except the Realms out) they would have printed far fewer "splat" books for 3.5, believe me.
Of course if they put the same amount of crunch into the Dragonlance and Ravenloft books as they did the Realms, there really would not have been all 'that' much difference in the amount of mechanics out there.
Fact of the matter remains, most of the FR books from 3.0 and 3.5 had almost as much mechanical content as, for example, the Complete series.
Usually more...
Setting books produce less sales then mechanics book. That is why wizards produced so many mechanics books so fast. They put out more splat books in 3 years then TSR managed in 10 years. Wizards in an attempt to maxmize profit basically bloated their system to death, reset it and did it again. Then proceeded to do the same to the next system (which seems to be in it's death bed from looking at the massive mechanic changes the lastest splat book is intoducing). Focus on campaign books is less profitable but more sustainable. So I have no issues with having a lot of campaign stuff printed.
For some time, I used an automated character sheet. I also made my own because of house-rules going in the way of rules. The thing that depressed me at the beginning was the sheer number of options. Now that the product is working (somewhat), I feel ready to integrate some other material than core rules... and I'm depressed again. More books generally imply more options for the characters. Even if an additional books apply only to one setting, there is often a couple feats and prestige classes in there, which causes more work for us (automated sheet makers).
Are we to put forth a rule limiting the options based on the setting the character is in, or not? I have seen numerous builds on the web, some optimized and some not as much. Most of the optimized ones took options from different books, going as far as taking feats and prestige classes from different settings (whether or not these feats and classes list a region from the setting in their prerequisites). While this makes powerful characters and all, my question is: is this permitted? Should I be able to create a character with options (feats, prestige classes, etc.) from different worlds? Should I allow my players to do so?
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Now, if you help write articles / look to The Wiki many of those questions can be answered by the reference sections of articles... we can always use more contributors, just saying...Touche.
The wiki is great, and I do use it, but it's the really small stuff that I'm trying to find a better way to track; ie. the shoanti hawk clan hangs out at the base of the storval stairs. A single sentence in 96 pages.
That's going to be brilliant when my party heads that way in RotRL 4. Thing is, I found it in like PF 9? (8 maybe, I dunno, I've lost the reference already).
The big stuff; the cultures, the lands, eras ... that's the easy stuff, it's the minutia, the off-hand sentence, I'm trying to track better.
This is why I subscribe. All of the PDFs get thrown into a directory and indexed by spotlight. When I need to find a random quote like the one above, just tap it into the search box and spotlight finds it. That's on a Mac; for Windows the Google Desktop Search facility works pretty much the same.
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This is why I subscribe. All of the PDFs get thrown into a directory and indexed by spotlight. When I need to find a random quote like the one above, just tap it into the search box and spotlight finds it. That's on a Mac; for Windows the Google Desktop Search facility works pretty much the same.
yup, Adobe Reader actually has this ability built in as well, you can search for all instances of a phrase in PDFs in directory X.