I'm preparing to start GMing my 1st Pathfinder campaign. This is the 1st time using pathfinder for our group as we've played 3.5 for a long time and its my 1st time as GM since AD&D.
There are going to be 5 players (3 humans, 1 halfling & 1 unknown). One of our regulars doesn't like to play anything that to closely resembles a human. In past campaigns she's played a centaur, a wemic and most recently a gnome. This time she wants to be a big tough barbarian. She's an integral part of our group so I'm happy to make some allowances for her. The question is, what race to make her. Half-Orc doesn't have the edge over humans it did in 3.5 and I'm setting the campaign start in Eastern Isger so there isn't likely to be many of them there. I've suggested a Hobgoblin as that area was recently swept up in the goblinblood wars and a stray hobgoblin child might have been taken in by some kind hearted soul.Anyone have any suggestions? My criteria are that it can't be some overpowering creature, creature unable to team up with humans or very difficult to keep track of (this is my 1st time GMing in a long time remember).
BTW: probable enemies for the 1st few levels are: goblins, goblin dogs, hobgoblins, human (or humanoid) bandits and undead.
Tim
What edge is she looking for? She could just go Orc if she does not mind the penalties to mental stats.
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Do you have the old 3.5 Races of Stone book? There's the Goliath race in there, basically giant-blooded people who are well-suited to being fighters and barbarians. Still medium-size and not a level adjustment, but they get some nice bonuses and can use larger-than-normal weapons easily.
Failing that idea, um, hobgoblin is probably fine. They're a little more powerful than the core races, but not overwhelmingly so.
A half-ogre from Savage Species or Goliath from the Races of Stone might be just fine (they were LA +1 under 3.5, so they should be fine as a LA 0 races now, shouldn't they?).
A half-ogre from Savage Species or Goliath from the Races of Stone might be just fine (they were LA +1 under 3.5, so they should be fine as a LA 0 races now, shouldn't they?).
That's the official stance on +1LA races, emphasis on 'should' which means the necessity for GM adjudication.
Pixie. Because halfing barbarians are too outre. :)
thats a shame as humans make great barbarins. i personaly think half orc are quite good. the +2 to any stat + the darkvision. but i guess bugbears would make th best. huge stat boosts, still medium sized, and only +1 LA i think.
A good 'low CR' Monster for a Barbarian is a Bugbear, definitely not-human and given the 'Goblin Wars' you mentioned, a few Bugbears might have been captured and either magically altered via Helm of Opposite Alignment or raised by their captors, but again this is a long stretch and the instant the B3 PC encounters Bugbear society (such as it is) the PC should be torn between staying with his or her adoptive race or trying to rejoin her heritage, however loathesome it might be to her 'humanised' senses.
Alternatively, a Duergar Barbarian, a renegade from his society, just as choleric-tempered as his kin but extraordinarily selfish or perhaps just possessed of an inherent desire to see everything. Maybe he's just a Half-Duergar and was banished from his Clanhold for some slight, real or cooked up against the 'filthy half-breed'. (Half-Duergar I'd keep all the abilities but their Phantasm and one of their spell-like abilities.)
Ettercap makes, again, a really, really creepy PC. As a Barbarian this thing would be incredibly lethal and would probably make the other PCs
develop arachnophobia en-mass.
Gnolls are always fun, just don't expect people to run up and hug you after you save the day. Eating sentients and all that.
Nobody takes the Kobold Barbarian seriously up until they geat a Longspear inserted right into the delicates, then everybody does. Get a high AC, a reach weapon and go berserk on people's kneecaps. You'll never regret it!
Lizardfolk can be found in non-aquatic regions, and while they retain their Hold Breath ability (which strikes me as strange) their Climb Speed can enable the Barbarian Lizardfolk to completely screw with the enemy as nobody expects to be ambushed from ABOVE, and a Lizardfolk using their Hold Breath ability can concieveably unleash all sorts of nasty inhaled poisons and keep fighting while the enemy starts to spasm and froth at the mouth. Always fun.
A Were-rat or -wolf (or -boar!) Barbarian is always fun, a having the Barbarian 'wolf out' mid-combat and then using their intimidate power can soil the trousers of all but the most hardened troops, I can tell you!
A Tengu Barbarian could be an interesting concept, perhaps cursed with uncontrolable rage when it sees an enemy with a Sword-like weapon that it goes berserk and must kill that NPC to get it's talons on the weapon for it's collection.
Tiefling is, of course, always fun. Drop a Darkness on the ground where the enemy is, wait until you see a hand or weapon groping out of the sphere and start swinging at where the head should be, roughly.
Trogs can be fun as Barbarians, assuming the other PCs are willing to keep a shackle around it's neck and prevent it from killing and devouring everything that so much as looks at it for more than a heartbeat.
Another route, and possibly one that the PCs might find quite interesting is a Worg Barbarian. Yes, a Non-Humanoid PC. Worgs can speak, are relatively intelligent and possess great physical scores. A Worg Barbarian using a Breastplate-Barding suit of armor with Armor Spikes and the Dragon-jaw item from the 3.5 Draconomicon, the Jaws of the Dragon, adds the Sharptooth spell to the wearer of this set of metal teeth that fit into the mouth of any creature. Think of the spell, if you don't have access to the manual, as Improved Natural Attack on command, and could probably stack with that as well.
Worg Barbarian should naturally focus on Charge, Bull-rush and if she can swing it, Grapple attacks, since the Worg can already trip with it's bite attacks and could use armor spikes as the primary weapon, using the Bite Attack as her primary weapon before thrashing herself at the enemy and gouging them to pieces with the spines coming out of her armor. Speed will pretty much never get over 40 feet, but items that can add stealth and other skill bonuses would always be good fun, and while the Worg PC is denied the fun weapons, she's always armed via the bite attack and can be a valued partner for small-sized PCs.
I think the ability to hold breath on lizardfolk may be a result of slower reptilian metabolism, so they retain it even away from aquatic environment.
I think the ability to hold breath on lizardfolk may be a result of slower reptilian metabolism, so they retain it even away from aquatic environment.
Eh I've always treated Lizardfolk as two separate species depending upon where they live: Swamp-dwellers are the more primitive, cold-blooded Lizard-types while Plains, Desert and Cave-dwelling Lizardfolk are nominally warm-blooded but lack the hold breath ability.
Plains-dwellers lose swim speed and hold breath and instead have a base speed of 40 feet. Desert-dwellers lose swim speed and hold breath and instead gain Adaptation to the Desert Environment and a burrow speed of 5 feet. Cave-Dwellers retain Swim and Hold Breath, however.... but dwelling so far underground they need to be able to generate their own heat.
One of our regulars doesn't like to play anything that to closely resembles a human.
Based on that, I suggest shoggoth. Or any other aberration. Anything humanoid is right out, as the very definition of that is "closely resembles humans." Animals and the like aren't really playable choices (unless you anthropomorphise them - a word which means "make them more human"), and outsiders are basically human ideals given form. They're like one-dimensional "characters" in shallow stories.
It's really, really tough to have intelligent creatures in fantasy worlds that don't resemble humans, because they're all thought up by humans.
The point is that depending on how you look at it, you cannot play a character that doesn't resemble a human. But if you go the other way and have a fixed definition of what you consider human, then it becomes easy to have a human character: Just play it completely different from what you consider human.
Half-Orc doesn't have the edge over humans it did in 3.5
And that's important, yes? Need power!
Anyway, half-orcs never had an edge - except maybe on the razor they slit their wrists when they realised how pathetic they were. ;-)
I've suggested a Hobgoblin
They don't really make good barbarians, as they are orderly and civilised. And sneaky (at least, that's what their racial trait says).
If you want goblinoid barbarians, you might want goblin barbarians (insane little buggers), or bugbears - though you'd have to do a zero-HD bugbear to keep it in line. Orc or (slightly weakened) gnolls can work, too.
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The Tome Of Secrets Has a take on the Half Ogre, and its PF compatible.
Not sure i can post the full stats here, but it gets a nice str and con boost, but negs to int and wis. med size, no LA. you might check it out.. Tome of Secrets
**Edit**
Tome of Secrets is OGL.
Half-Ogre
+4 str
+2 con
-2 int
-2 wis
Medium
30 base speed
darkvision 20 feet
+2 to intimidate checks
Lang. Common/Giant
Thats pretty buff for a barb. Possible 22 str at 1st lvl, before raging.
I'd recommend one of the Tiefling variants in Bastards of Erebus. If you want something truly non-human, a Qlippoth-spawn Tiefling, I imagine, would be pretty successful in wreaking Lovecraftian havoc. They get a bonus to strength and wisdom, and a penalty to intelligence - sounds like a barbarian to me.
Another route, and possibly one that the PCs might find quite interesting is a Worg Barbarian. Yes, a Non-Humanoid PC. Worgs can speak, are relatively intelligent and possess great physical scores. A Worg Barbarian using a Breastplate-Barding suit of armor with Armor Spikes and the Dragon-jaw item from the 3.5 Draconomicon, the Jaws of the Dragon, adds the Sharptooth spell to the wearer of this set of metal teeth that fit into the mouth of any creature. Think of the spell, if you don't have access to the manual, as Improved Natural Attack on command, and could probably stack with that as well.
Worg Barbarian should naturally focus on Charge, Bull-rush and if she can swing it, Grapple attacks, since the Worg can already trip with it's bite attacks and could use armor spikes as the primary weapon, using the Bite Attack as her primary weapon before thrashing herself at the enemy and gouging them to pieces with the spines coming out of her armor. Speed will pretty much never get over 40 feet, but items that can add stealth and other skill bonuses would always be good fun, and while the Worg PC is denied the fun weapons, she's always armed via the bite attack and can be a valued partner for small-sized PCs.
I give this 1 thumbs up as what she should play (heck, I want to play a Worg Barbarian now) I think a Winter Wolf would also work as a non-Humanoid PC. I realize what she means by not wanting to play human though, I don't really know what you mean by not playing anything that resembles a Human though (a centaur has a Human torso) but I think you just meant a non-human. If she doesn't want to play a Worg I'd suggest a Dwarf, Orc, Half-Orc, or one of the many good suggestions above.
Dwarven Barbarian is very fun. 30 foot movement speed in medium armor is awesome. Not to mention she would get to play a really pissed off dwarf!
Dwarven Barbarian is very fun. 30 foot movement speed in medium armor is awesome. Not to mention she would get to play a really pissed off dwarf!
Even better. Make it a beardless female dwarf. Then she can go into a rage whenever anyone asks where her beard is. :)
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Dwarven Barbarian is very fun. 30 foot movement speed in medium armor is awesome. Not to mention she would get to play a really pissed off dwarf!Even better. Make it a beardless female dwarf. Then she can go into a rage whenever anyone asks where her beard is. :)
Even more fun, she can have a beard and beat the tar out of anyone that refers to her in the male context while simultaneously saying "What part o' me not be feminine, ye pointy-eared tree-hugging bastid?"
The Tome Of Secrets Has a take on the Half Ogre, and its PF compatible.
Not sure i can post the full stats here, but it gets a nice str and con boost, but negs to int and wis. med size, no LA. you might check it out.. Tome of Secrets
**Edit**
Tome of Secrets is OGL.
Half-Ogre
+4 str
+2 con
-2 int
-2 wisMedium
30 base speed
darkvision 20 feet+2 to intimidate checks
Lang. Common/GiantThats pretty buff for a barb. Possible 22 str at 1st lvl, before raging.
Note that just because there is no LA listing doesn't mean that this is wildly unbalancing. I wouldn't let anyone play that without some sort of downside to compensate.
Goliath Barbarian with a Large Goliath Greathammer. I believe it would deal 3d6 + 1 1/2 Str bonus and deal x4 on a crit.
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Note that just because there is no LA listing doesn't mean that this is wildly unbalancing. I wouldn't let anyone play that without some sort of downside to compensate.
The racials are still +2 over all, which matches all the other races, No bonus feats, extra skill points per lvl, or immunities.
I think its pretty well balanced. What down side would you give a Half-Ogre Barb?
Note that just because there is no LA listing doesn't mean that this is wildly unbalancing. I wouldn't let anyone play that without some sort of downside to compensate.The racials are still +2 over all, which matches all the other races
That's only half the picture. At best.
Other races get +2p/+2m/-2. Small bonus for two ability scores, one physical, one mental.
Half-ogres get +4 str, +2 con, -2 int, -2 wis.
Bonus in both strength and constitution means you can really focus on physical matters (great for fighters and the like!), and while the wisdom penalty hurts most concepts, the intelligence penalty is basically negligible, trivial.
More important, though, is the +4 to strength. It's a major bonus compared to the +2 others can get. It makes it possible to start with str 22, and quite easy to have str 20 at the beginning. That's huge.
No bonus feats, extra skill points per lvl, or immunities.
Does get +2 to Intimidate and Darkvision 60'.
I think its pretty well balanced. What down side would you give a Half-Ogre Barb?
I'd drop the int penalty and up the wis penalty to -4. I think that makes them even.
You can even give them more interesting stuff, too. Like a racial proficiency in ogre hooks. Or Use Oversized Weapon.
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No bonus feats, extra skill points per lvl, or immunities.Does get +2 to Intimidate and Darkvision 60'.
Sorry, wasn't clear, I ment that their racial bonus list is very short compaired to humans, elves, dwarfs and the like.
I could see adding some negs, like -2 (or -4)to diplomicy, stealth, and sense motive, for being a half-Ogre.
Or even give them another -2 to Cha because they are half-ogre.
Dropping the traits is a good idea, to help balance aswell.
How much of a point buy are you using (or rolling?)
if its 25 points i'd do
16 str (10) +4 (20 total)
16 dex (10)
14 con (5) +2 (16 total)
10 int (0) -2 (8 total)
10 wis (0) -2 (8 total)
10 Cha (0) (10 total)
if 20 drop the dex to 14
That would make a nice Barb, with out being too strong for 1st lvl, well i think so anyway. lol
Darnit, I really wanted to see a Worg Barbarian lol. Half-Ogres are cool too. I was playing a Hadozee (I think we did something so I moved my cha penalty to another stat but that's not relevant) Bard/Dread Pirate in a game once and I had a Half-Ogre Barbarian as my cohort, she was also the cook on my ship.
I would change the ability adjustments to: +2 Str, +2 Con, and -2 to a mental score.
Natural Armor +1
+2 Intimidate
-2 Diplomacy
Languages Common, Giant.
Weapon Proficiency - Great Club
Treat any weapon with ogre in the name as a martial weapon.
If you do keep the +4 to strength, consider offsetting it with a -2 to dex, and the +1 or +2 NA bonus.
Have you thought of having her simply play a human barbarian and get the rest of the party to play gnomes and halflings? That way she can still be the giant brute, relative to the rest of the party.
Perhaps I overlooked it, but did anyone mention half-giant from the Expanded Psionic Handbook?
+2 STR, -2 DEX, +2 CON, is considered a giant for purposes of bane weapons and such, med. size, 30 ft speed, low light vision, +2 on saves vs. fire spells and effects, counts as large for the purposes of combat maneuvers and special attacks (swallow whole, ...), can use large weapons, has two power points (naturally psonic) and stomp power 1/day (std. action, 20 ft. cone, ref. negates, on failed save fall prone and take 1d4 non-lethal damage, CL equal to 1/2 level) LA +1.
I think the w/o the psionics and perhaps a little something to compensate it would make a great barbarian.
Sorry for the threadjack... but why half -giants- are naturally psionic is beyond me. You take a creature that's naturally big, strong and tough and crossbreed them with humans and get psionic beings? Meh, that makes no sense to me.
I believe it's because they were more common in Athas/Dark Sun campaign setting, so were included in the Expanded Psionics book.
I always like Lizardfolk for useable non-human-type PCs.
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Sorry for the threadjack... but why half -giants- are naturally psionic is beyond me. You take a creature that's naturally big, strong and tough and crossbreed them with humans and get psionic beings? Meh, that makes no sense to me.
As a fan of psionics, as well as half-giants, I feel the same way. I personally like Green Ronin's Half-Giant template from Advanced Bestiary.
I also like lizardfolk for non-human PCs, and have played one, and played in a group that another player played one. Sure you lose out on a couple levels, but it was fun anyway.
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That sounds like it was made for the barbarian class. I think we've already got it worked out so don't dare mention this one. We have never used psionics in any of our campaigns which probably explains why I've never seen it.
Tim
Sorry for being this late, but I remembered that this race exists quite a while after the people here started to search for something that wouldn't have such a brutal strength bonuses, like the half-ogre and the goliath do.
Presonally I wouldn't advance the psionic aspect too much, but certainy I'd use feats that require being focused or to have point reserve, although I have some doubts that they get along with rage ;)