My friends have started a new Pathfinder RPG campaign based on evil aligned characters. I am thinking of playing a Drow or something like that as a Ranger and not being so focused on range combat but instead being a melee striker DPS machine. I am thinking dual wielding some kind of blade type. No this is not a Drizzt ripoff but something interesting for me to try.
Could anyone give me a good lvl 1 Ranger build like this here please and maybe some advice on what to do as I level?
Thanks so much!
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Have you seen Treentmonk's guide to rangers? A quick message board search should find it. He proposes a fantastic 'switch hitter' build, where you take the Archery bonus feats but focus your normal feats on 2h weapon wielding, it might be worth trying and it could set you apart from the umpteen thousand Drizzt wannabees.
If you're looking for builds, for 2WF ranger you don't need a high dex, and for a switch hitter you don't need a super high dex, so for either of those I'd go with something like:
20-pt buy
str 18
dex 12+2
con 12-2
int 10
wis 13
cha 7+2
I'd look into the Boon Companion feat from Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets. It boosts your effective druid level for purposes of animal companions by +4, capped at your total hit dice.
Treentmonk's guide makes some excellent suggestions for companion choices, as well as good feat suggestions. I definitely suggest checking it out before settling on anything.
Have you seen Treentmonk's guide to rangers? A quick message board search should find it. He proposes a fantastic 'switch hitter' build, where you take the Archery bonus feats but focus your normal feats on 2h weapon wielding, it might be worth trying and it could set you apart from the umpteen thousand Drizzt wannabees.
If you're looking for builds, for 2WF ranger you don't need a high dex, and for a switch hitter you don't need a super high dex, so for either of those I'd go with something like:
20-pt buy
str 18
dex 12+2
con 12-2
int 10
wis 13
cha 7+2I'd look into the Boon Companion feat from Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets. It boosts your effective druid level for purposes of animal companions by +4, capped at your total hit dice.
Treentmonk's guide makes some excellent suggestions for companion choices, as well as good feat suggestions. I definitely suggest checking it out before settling on anything.
TWF Tiefling
Gah...stupid post-monster ate my post.
Anyhow, quick summary:
It's really, REALLY hard not to make fun of you when you start out by saying you want to play a TWF drow ranger - but totally not Drizzt....riiight.
But, in the spirit of Weaton's law and not being a dick:
Link to Treantmonk's guide It has a section on the TWF-ranger.
Could you write a bit more about what it is that is most important to you (high melee damage, TWF, the ranger class, the drow race etc.)? That will help people make better suggestions that come close to what you wnat.
A quick suggestion, not tested at all, so it may suck harder than a TWF-ranger:
Fighter, TWF with kukris, Imp. Critical, a few of the Crit-feats, maybe a rogue-level or two for some extra sneak-attack damage.
Gah...stupid post-monster ate my post.
Anyhow, quick summary:
It's really, REALLY hard not to make fun of you when you start out by saying you want to play a TWF drow ranger - but totally not Drizzt....riiight.
But, in the spirit of Weaton's law and not being a dick:
Link to Treantmonk's guide It has a section on the TWF-ranger.
Could you write a bit more about what it is that is most important to you (high melee damage, TWF, the ranger class, the drow race etc.)? That will help people make better suggestions that come close to what you wnat.
A quick suggestion, not tested at all, so it may suck harder than a TWF-ranger:
Fighter, TWF with kukris, Imp. Critical, a few of the Crit-feats, maybe a rogue-level or two for some extra sneak-attack damage.
He does not HAVE to be Drow....even normal Elf would be fine. I am looking primarily for high melee damage.
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My friends have started a new Pathfinder RPG campaign based on evil aligned characters. I am thinking of playing a Drow or something like that as a Ranger and not being so focused on range combat but instead being a melee striker DPS machine. I am thinking dual wielding some kind of blade type. No this is not a Drizzt ripoff but something interesting for me to try.
Could anyone give me a good lvl 1 Ranger build like this here please and maybe some advice on what to do as I level?
Thanks so much!
I'll leave the crunch to someone else, but if you need roleplay ideas for your evil ranger, think PETA!
If you are sold on TWF, then sword and board is your best choice. Maybe rapier + Small spiked shield. Grab improved bash, and you can have a decent AC while TWF'ing. If it MUST be two blades, then start out with longsword/shortsword and switch to dual kukri's once weapon focus/improved critical come into play. Be prepared to be weak defensively if you don't shield up though.
Multiclass into Rogue is almost a necessity to make TWF'ing a decent option (otherwise, 2H fighting is just as good or better). 4 levels of Rogue is a nice number that optimizes the BAB, gives you 2 SA as well as two rogue talents (which can be used to pick up some extra feats if you wish). I might go Ranger 6/Rogue 4 before even looking at PrC's.
Assasin seems to be a pretty obvious PrC dip. I wouldn't suggest 10 levels, but 4 levels isn't bad, and you get death attack, which isn't fantastic, but it's OK. I would suggest a dip into shadowdancer, but the feat requirements are likely going to be too stiff, so probably back into Ranger/Rogue would be your best bet.
Got to think your final destination should look something like Ranger 8, Rogue 8, Assassin 4. That would be a BAB of +17, and 6d6 SA, with a nice compliment of bonus feats and lots of skill points.
2 Levels of monk can add some cool flavor. You only drop one point of base attack, and you get +3 to all saves, evasion, Improved unarmed strike, 2 monk feats, stunning fists, and decent skill points and class skills.
Human Greatsword Fighter. make him and Ulfen and name him Sven. if you really want TWF, have armor spikes as your offhand weapon. if you are truly worried about your dump stats, adopt the advanced template for +1 ecl and +4 to all stats. so what if you lose access to your capstone. you get plenty of compensation. 2 more skill points per level, 2 more hit points per level, 2 more potential armor class, +2 to every saving throw, 2 more to hit and damage, with any weapon. (3 more damage w/ 2hand weapons) the passive bonuses of the advanced template i like much more than a huge portion of the published capstone abilities.
I do. Drizzt can't be cloned without breaking the rules!
How So? I am not looking for an arguement, but am genuinely curious.
btw, Excellent Avatar for one arguing against Drizzt ;)|
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I do. Drizzt can't be cloned without breaking the rules!How So? I am not looking for an arguement, but am genuinely curious.
btw, Excellent Avatar for one arguing against Drizzt ;)
The day he entered the academy he used two weapons. He didn't take a level of ranger until he went to the surface. By then he was already beating CR 10 monsters, so he obviously wasn't using two weapons untrained for a -8 to hit.
That's not even the real issue. I just threw that out there because it's easily proven. The real issue, though, is the disconnect between what his pen and paper counterpart can accomplish and what his fantasy/fiction version does.
For example, Drizzt RARELY ever gets hit in the novels but his 3.5 pen and paper character only has an AC of about 26. At CR 16 he should be getting hit more than half of the time. Keep in mind that these are just the things I remembered after reading the books about 10 years ago. There were many other (and probably more solid) reasons why he can't be created properly in pen and paper.
EDIT: And yes, Entreri was a much better character. :)
Human Greatsword Fighter. make him and Ulfen and name him Sven. if you really want TWF, have armor spikes as your offhand weapon. if you are truly worried about your dump stats, adopt the advanced template for +1 ecl and +4 to all stats. so what if you lose access to your capstone. you get plenty of compensation. 2 more skill points per level, 2 more hit points per level, 2 more potential armor class, +2 to every saving throw, 2 more to hit and damage, with any weapon. (3 more damage w/ 2hand weapons) the passive bonuses of the advanced template i like much more than a huge portion of the published capstone abilities.
Sure, if your GM will permit you to apply a template designed for monsters to your character - I know I wouldn't.
Human Greatsword Fighter. make him and Ulfen and name him Sven. if you really want TWF, have armor spikes as your offhand weapon. if you are truly worried about your dump stats, adopt the advanced template for +1 ecl and +4 to all stats. so what if you lose access to your capstone. you get plenty of compensation. 2 more skill points per level, 2 more hit points per level, 2 more potential armor class, +2 to every saving throw, 2 more to hit and damage, with any weapon. (3 more damage w/ 2hand weapons) the passive bonuses of the advanced template i like much more than a huge portion of the published capstone abilities.Sure, if your GM will permit you to apply a template designed for monsters to your character - I know I wouldn't.
i see nothing wrong wih applying the template assuming the player was willing to suck up the ECL Adjustment and be a level behind everyone. all the templates are designed for monsters, and i have heard of DM's who allow templates with a mutual agreement that the PC bites the ECL and deals with it. i said that i liked the passive bonuses of the template better than most published capstone abilities, not that the template was a superior option.
the bonuses are spread out and not all of them are going to be exploited by the same pc. Tis a great way to help M.A.D. at the low levels. but tis really a good option for Dealing with mad, at the cost of being a level behind due to a "phantom level." that gave you attribute bonuses and nothing else. one will only care about a small portion of the bonuses. the one that maximizes thier character most. but these bonuses are slightly weaker than a class level due to slowed progression. being a level behind hurts.
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Being a level behind doesn't really hurt at all when you're +2 hit, damage, AC (4 for monks), saves, all skills... That's a lot more than any one level, outside of that fabled 20th level ability. It's really only meant to make monsters more challenging.
EDIT: That, or it's basically like giving up a level for 128,000gp worth of items (a belt of physical stats +4 and a headband of mental stats +4)
Being a level behind doesn't really hurt at all when you're +2 hit, damage, AC (4 for monks), saves, all skills... That's a lot more than any one level, outside of that fabled 20th level ability. It's really only meant to make monsters more challenging.
i guess it would be a tradeoff then. you would be giving up your 20th level capstone and being forever a level behind to get +4 to every stat. it may not hurt that bad with a Noncaster. But it would hurt a caster much worse. as the caster eternally has delayed spell access, gets thier class abilities late, and never gets thier capstone. this would actually hurt casters pretty bad. it does make builds that suffer from M.A.D. more viable though. the monk would really appreciate those bonuses, as would a bard, paladin, or ranger. i would make this case by case. it would help rogues too. as rogues have thier fair Share of M.A.D. too.
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Yeah, but you could be giving up your capstone at as low as second level for this boost, maybe in a campaign that you will never get to 20th (as most don't). Of course, if you go to 21st level, you do get the capstone, plus stats that are 4 higher than anyone else can manage. Although it may even out later on, it would be a seriously broken option at low levels; but then again my view may be skewed because we play mostly low-level games. Any fighting class would take this option as a no-brainer, because you're just much better at everything with just one less attack at certain levels. Casters might have to think about it, but if they feel like having higher DC's, better attack rolls, saves, and such I might do it even if I am behind on one level of spells. I would get more bonus spells, at the very least.
Yeah, but you could be giving up your capstone at as low as second level for this boost, maybe in a campaign that you will never get to 20th (as most don't). Of course, if you go to 21st level, you do get the capstone, plus stats that are 4 higher than anyone else can manage. Although it may even out later on, it would be a seriously broken option at low levels; but then again my view may be skewed because we play mostly low-level games. Any fighting class would take this option as a no-brainer, because you're just much better at everything with just one less attack at certain levels. Casters might have to think about it, but if they feel like having higher DC's, better attack rolls, saves, and such I might do it even if I am behind on one level of spells. I would get more bonus spells, at the very least.
Templates start strong when you are low level and no one has that many class levels to thier name. but thier power declines over time. you get an early advantage that slowly wears off. it balances itself out around 7th-10th level. but yeah, any smart fighting class would take this option.
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And I think that this is why Paizo hasn't come out with any player-templates yet, or any option for LA races. Either they can't find a way to make it balance across the levels, or they just don't want to. I normally only see extreme power-gamers take templates, and it's only ever to break the system (like the person that takes X race with template Y, then takes 2 levels of prestige class J and 1 level of prestige class K... you get what I mean). But like I said, we play mostly at low levels, so templates were always abused when access was granted to them.
And I think that this is why Paizo hasn't come out with any player-templates yet, or any option for LA races. Either they can't find a way to make it balance across the levels, or they just don't want to. I normally only see extreme power-gamers take templates, and it's only ever to break the system (like the person that takes X race with template Y, then takes 2 levels of prestige class J and 1 level of prestige class K... you get what I mean). But like I said, we play mostly at low levels, so templates were always abused when access was granted to them.
i agree that some templates have synergy with certain race/class combinations. but finding that synergy requires one of the following
Trial and error
Long Periods spent researching obscessively in between sessions
Access to some kind of Min-Max Board
Advice from a more experienced player.
sheer accident
or some combination of the above
a template can be a nice addition if one can justify it. as long as the template is more than just, i want Power X and ability Y. the advanced template is rather generic, and allows for little more than winning the DNA lottery or training rigoriously as if you were something like a spartan.
Being a level behind doesn't really hurt at all when you're +2 hit, damage, AC (4 for monks), saves, all skills... That's a lot more than any one level, outside of that fabled 20th level ability. It's really only meant to make monsters more challenging.
EDIT: That, or it's basically like giving up a level for 128,000gp worth of items (a belt of physical stats +4 and a headband of mental stats +4)
Precisely - and remember that since those bonuses are unnamed, the player can still use both belt and headband to boost their stats even further.
Precisely - and remember that since those bonuses are unnamed, the player can still use both belt and headband to boost their stats even further.Being a level behind doesn't really hurt at all when you're +2 hit, damage, AC (4 for monks), saves, all skills... That's a lot more than any one level, outside of that fabled 20th level ability. It's really only meant to make monsters more challenging.
EDIT: That, or it's basically like giving up a level for 128,000gp worth of items (a belt of physical stats +4 and a headband of mental stats +4)
i played a 3.5. edition rogue with this template. (advanced, +4 to all stats for +1 ECL, pre pathfinder, around 2006) she was ninja flavored and wielded 2 daggers Via 2WF tree. she was also the party face and had to exploit ECL buyoff and reach level 5 just to contribute in combat. she had to be protected like a helpless child until she gained her 5th class level. she was also the party face, the party trap finder, and the party's in town errand girl. she balanced out around level 7.5 when the party was level 8. she adventured as a 12 year old female ninja apprentice from rokugan and came back a master ninja.
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i played a 3.5. edition rogue with this template.
I once ran a game with all new players who constantly wanted to build characters with monster templates. Since they were new they weren't very good at playing the game as intended so they all wanted cheesy freebie hand-ups.
Of course I let them put whatever cheesy monster template they wanted (as long as it followed the rules). After they built their monsters I'd always kill them to show them why increasing your ECL through templates is not a smart idea even though it seems really powerful (and no, I didn't go out of my way to kill them... killing templated characters is rather easy).
Most templates are pretty terrible. Awesome, you gave up two levels just to gain +2 strength and +2 con! TOTALLY WORTH IT RIGHT GUYS?
i played a 3.5. edition rogue with this template.I once ran a game with all new players who constantly wanted to build characters with monster templates. Since they were new they weren't very good at playing the game as intended so they all wanted cheesy freebie hand-ups.
Of course I let them put whatever cheesy monster template they wanted (as long as it followed the rules). After they built their monsters I'd always kill them to show them why increasing your ECL through templates is not a smart idea even though it seems really powerful (and no, I didn't go out of my way to kill them... killing templated characters is rather easy).
i used the template as a means of flavor rather than power. i wanted to represent her difficult (nearly suicidal) training regiment, her prodigeous talents, and lucky genetics and this showcased it pretty well. she left as a prodigeous child apprentice and came back as the youngest ninja grandmaster ever.
1/2 orc, twf with double axe
Why not full orc?