ok the title itself is a bit of a spoiler
I wondered what the ratio of PCs thus far attacking/allying with these groups
-My PC's have allied/chatted to both
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ok the title itself is a bit of a spoiler
I wondered what the ratio of PCs thus far attacking/allying with these groups
-My PC's have allied/chatted to both
My PCs have allied with the Kobolds. They had heard of the mite hole from the thieves, but rolled poorly on the perception to find the entrance to the mite hole, encountering the kobolds first
My PC's allied with the kobolds; they talked to the kobolds first, and even were bringing the captured mite back with them to try and work out peace between the two. But once the druid discovered the remains of the animals tortured by the mites along the way, he went berzerk. After a brief discussion and a small amount of handwringing by the lawful good types, the party made up its mind, and the mites were slated for extinction. They exterminated all the mites save Grabbles, and hauled him back to Chief Sootscale as a war prize in the hopes of making a lasting pact between the "Big People" and the kobolds.
After a brief discussion and a small amount of handwringing by the lawful good types, the party made up its mind, and the mites were slated for extinction. They exterminated all the mites save Grabbles, and hauled him back to Chief Sootscale as a war prize in the hopes of making a lasting pact between the "Big People" and the kobolds.
aw, those LG goodtypes who slaughter the little folk and handover captives to evil people, gotta love em
My party of 3 LN /2 LE would write this down and use in evidence why LG isnt the way forward!!
...as long as no foul chaos creeps into the land, thats the main thing
aw, those LG goodtypes who slaughter the little folk and handover captives to evil people, gotta love em
Exactly. I've been converting the adventure to 4E and running it "Brutal Style" (monsters have less HP, but do much more damage) and life in the Stolen Lands is *very* deadly (3 nights of playing, 2 PC deaths already). It is interesting to note how suddenly pragmatic the LG types have become when death is lurking around every corner...
Should I give an XP award to a party that allies with the Kobolds (or Mites)?
Do I give the standard XP for creatures "bypassed" instead of killed?
Or would having an ally be the main reward here?
Should I give an XP award to a party that allies with the Kobolds (or Mites)?
Do I give the standard XP for creatures "bypassed" instead of killed?
Or would having an ally be the main reward here?
IMO you should always give out XP for battles avoided. It encourages players to not resort to violence if they know that they can get by and will be rewarded otherwise. You don't want players thinking potential allies are little chunks of XP if you can avoid it.
The allies will make up for the loot they will lose.
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Should I give an XP award to a party that allies with the Kobolds (or Mites)?
Do I give the standard XP for creatures "bypassed" instead of killed?
Or would having an ally be the main reward here?
In this particular case the PCs receive Quest xp, which is reward enough, but giving them bonus xp for being diplomatic wouldn't be out of order. (But the tune of 3,700 xp seems quite a lot considering they didn't interact with the majority of Kobolds).
SO as a compromise give them xp for Chief Sootscale, Shaman Tartuk (if he was defeated or driven off) and perhaps 100 xp for every individual kobold befriended (in my game my PCs became friends with a kobold named Joog Joog due to a random encounter and MikMek from the Sycamore). Giving them a nice round 2,000 xp, and rewarding them for good role-playing. Diplomats deserve some credit too after all.
Have you ever read, or played, The Sunless Citadel? In it, the PCs encounter potentially friendly kobolds, who share with the PCs a common enemy, a goblin tribe. The PCs can even do a job for the kobolds, and make an alliance with them. If they do, they get XP for each kobold they encounter.
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We.....kind of stumbled into the Mites and then with the assistance of the captured kobold found them and offered to return something to them only to have them get upset and end up attacking us as well.
Sooo....they're both gone now. Honestly we didn't go into either expecting to get in a fight but that's how it all played out.
My group have allied with the kobolds and killed most of the mites.
Details behind the spoiler tag.
After learning about the stolen bandit goods they went to seek out the mites.
The mites were targeted for destruction since they were deemed ugly, hostile and more of a pest. Thus most of them fell to our party of four (wiz/sor/brb/clr). The party entered through R1>R3>R4>R5 and so Mikmek was rescued fairly quickly. He was eager to see the mites slaughtered and get the statue returned so Grabbles was killed along with many mites. Quoggy and some other mites from R2 and R6 managed to escape and I might have them return for revenge later (if they dare to or manage to get some outside help).
They then proceeded to the Sootscale camp where Mikmek and Nakpik (who recognized the group) lead them to Chief Sootscale. Eager to take out Tartuk, Sootscale lead the group to Tartuk was blinded on the first round of combat and quickly taken prisoner. Tartuk was then given to Chief Sootscale who had him sacrificed "for good luck".
An alliance was formed where the Kobolds would let the group mine for silver in return for getting their own hex of radish farmlands near their lair. The kobolds were also allowed to take over the Mite lair to further expand their now small tribe.
In this particular case the PCs receive Quest xp, which is reward enough...
What is the "Quest xp" for this? The quest (inside cover: "Kobolds in the Hills") states they get 800gps but I did not see any mention of XP...?
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What is the "Quest xp" for this? The quest (inside cover: "Kobolds in the Hills") states they get 800gps but I did not see any mention of XP...?
In this particular case the PCs receive Quest xp, which is reward enough...
At the very beginning of Part Two, under Northern Greenbelt Quests, it says all Northern Greenbelt Quests are worth 400XP.
At the very beginning of Part Two, under Northern Greenbelt Quests, it says all Northern Greenbelt Quests are worth 400XP.
Thanks so much - I missed that.
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I had high hopes for my PC's and the kobold's and everything was going well...
the encountered the Mites first and decided quit early they needed to go and merrily went about slaughtering them until they found and rescued Mikmek and with renewed zeal decimated the mite population. Escorting mikmek and the statue back to the kobold lair and were negotiating turning over the statue to the chief or Tartuk when the party rogue noticed that the lair was a functional silver mine. Greed kicked in and the slaughter began and only Tartuk managed to escape the greed-fueled rampage the evoker wizard brought down upon their unprepared heads
Oh well I've decided that Chief Sootscale isn't happy being dead and I'm working on modifying the adventure D1.5=Revenge of the Kobold King to express his displeasure at the players greed. A night filled with creepy crawlies, kobold traps, zombies and Dread Wraiths should teach them to respect the wee ones in my games.
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My players loved the kobolds (first encountering them randomly in the Kamelands and being lead to the caves by a captured one).
They thought the Mites were weird, and I played up that the Mites weren't really big on negotiation, and were very, very crazy. Plus hanging out with giant centipedes didn't give my players a good impression.
They murdered the mites, lost a character to Tickleback, and then returned the statue to Chief Sootscale. They got into a fight with Tartuk, but the wizard went down like a chump (6 PCs plus Chief Sootscale, surrounded he couldn't even get an invisibility off to get away. He provoked badly).
Players were told to return in a week to negotiate Kobold territory.
My PC's in their zeal to bring law and order (and bits of evil) have allied/suppressed
the mites, kobolds and the boggard
fell out with the fey on every meeting so far, but both sides have used non-lethal force (entangle, pyrotechnics etc)...but intend to pay the fey to be spies
they are on the look out for more boggards to ally with, cpature big insects for the mite to control, etc
the Barony is turning into a rainbow alliance, though stepping out of line of the LN/LE contract brings swift anger!
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ok the title itself is a bit of a spoiler
I wondered what the ratio of PCs thus far attacking/allying with these groups
-My PC's have allied/chatted to both
They slaughtered the mites, hoping to ally with the kobolds. unfortunately they left behind a cleric of Norgorber with the kobolds to 'negotiate' a truce deal (this happened because the cleric's player wasn't able to attend that night's session. So we got together later and did a one-on-one session). long story short, by the time the rest got back to the kobolds, the cleric had wiped out most of the remaining kobolds, but was subdued by the shaman and chieftan, and was about to be sacrificed. remaining players managed to negotiated with the chieftan and chase off the shaman, rescued the cleric and left with an alliance - of sorts.....only to have the cleric return later that night and assassinate the chieftan. Needless to say the other players and the cleric's player had a long discussion about ethics in their gaming group. so he rolled up a new character having the cleric flee into the wilderness (future BBEG) mwahahahaha!!!
They haven't been to friendly towards the fey either. Paladin of Abadar loathes fey and even wields a cold iron weapon. At least they are allies with Oleg and the folks there.
My PCs recently encountered the kobolds in the radish patch, and proceeded to find out about the stolen "god" and the problem with the Mites. They're now asking where the kobold lair is so that they can get the "god" and return it.
The kobolds told them that they'd check with the bosses and get back to them on a meeting place or whether they could tell them where their lair was. SO, this leads me to the following conundrum (my player who's on the forums - don't look)
Thing is, Tartuk's really the one calling the shots in the tribe, but everyone's afraid of him. I'm not sure which would be a better overall result - the (likely failed) assassination attempt that Tartuk might send their way would potentially make them realize that he's a problem that needs to be dealt with, and it'd be kind of fun to have an encounter with a big, bad kobold assassin. On the other hand, if he went to Sootscale, then they'd have a much easier encounter with the kobolds overall, but it might actually lead to a confrontation between Sootscale and Tartuk earlier than the PCs' arrival, though that's not vital. I dunno. Thoughts?
The kobolds told them that they'd check with the bosses and get back to them on a meeting place or whether they could tell them where their lair was. SO, this leads me to the following conundrum (my player who's on the forums - don't look)
I would think that:
Since the Old Sycamor is a landmark and only the entrance to the lair is hidden the PCs of my group, though heading for the kobolds, stayed and watched the tree for a night and recognized a mites huntig party getting out and in. So they knew where the entrance is.
My PCs tried then to smoke the mites by throwing burning wet wood and debris into the entrance and covering it with wet soken blankets.
That led to a seemingly burning Old Sycamore with no effect on the mites since the lair is fairly large and i assume enough mole and mouse holes to let the smoke pass and leave the mites safe in the lower parts of the lair.
Without an visible effect they left and met the kobolds. After the negotitions with the chieftain and the "shaman" they are now out to kill the mites.
The kobolds told them that they'd check with the bosses and get back to them on a meeting place or whether they could tell them where their lair was. SO, this leads me to the following conundrum (my player who's on the forums - don't look)
I would think that:
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks muchly. I had a very fun encounter with a pair of kobolds with conflicting loyalties last night thanks to this brilliant idea. The party suffered the most damage that they've had yet, until the beguiler started spamming Daze and completely shut down the kobold rogue working for Tartuk...
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Calling the Mites "Blue Meanies," and encountering them well before the Kobold tribe, my group slaughtered them.
The Centipede-Breeder-Mite got away, with her precious buggies, but everything else in that tree suffered the stab-slash-strangle-burn disease so frequently communicated through contact with adventurers.
On arrival to the Sootscales (with Mikmek in tow), they conversed quite nicely with Chief S. and eventually produced the macguffin he was looking for.
He surprised everyone with his reaction to being handed such a powerful cultural icon, after which it became time to hit a certain purple Kobold with a club.
The party left the Kobolds in charge of the mine, for now, with agreements not to come in and murder the lizard-people out of hand. Again, for now.
The CE Gnomish Summoner did not take kindly to the truce being brokered, and tried his hardest to start a fight between them and the tribe. Chief S. was wise enough (and scared of the party's Human Sorcerer enough) to back down from such an altercation.
My players when searching for the Mites after I gave them a hint that they had the ring. At first level, they charged in. My dwarf inquisitor tried to negotiate, while the others started attacking. After my druid got to the torture room, he started executing every mite he saw, healed the kobold, and gave him his sicle. The pit posed no challenge for them, intentionally killing the whiptail centepede without it ever hitting. The tick dropped someone, but nothing else in the dungeon really hurt them.
Mikmek led them to Chief Sootscale, as they interrogated him on the different leaders and decided he was the one they wanted to talk to (WTF hitting 37 on dip checks at lvl 1?). The meeting with the chief went mostly as planned, and they confronted Tartuk, who lost initiative badly. He did manage to cast invisibility defensively and hide, over by the curtain outside. He then cast a silent image of him running away and squeezed behind. 1 player heard him cast though, and the curtain was torn down arround him. I rolled high on a percentail to determine how covered Tartuk was covered. He got stabbed and dropped.
Then the awesome happened. The players planted a stag lord amulet on Tartuk and convinced him that he should join them, as obviously the stag lord sent this infiltrater in to destroy him, see as he has such a strong tribe. A high bluff and diplomacy roll later, and they now have the chief eating out of their hand.
My players ran into the mites on the way to dealing with the kobolds. Since they were in the neighborhood and already knew the mites had the ring, they decided to exterminate them (after an initial, badly failed attempt at diplomacy).
After some arguing over the fate of Mikmek, they decided they liked him and let him lead them to the kobolds, where they delivered the statue to Sootscale (clever interrogation of an earlier kobold had warned them that Tartuk was not to be trusted). Sootscale promised the party anything they asked if they'd kill Tartuk while he kept his kobolds safe.
Tartuk is a bit nastier in my campaign (I had a feeling he'd be a solo encounter for the party, so I reworked him as a Summoner with a particularly nasty Eidolon) and the party barely managed to kill Tickbiter without any deaths; Tartuk himself managed to escape, badly wounded.
Next session, the PCs are going to finish their negotiations with Sootscale and go about tracking down and killing Tartuk (after the hard fight he gave them, they are determined not to let him become a recurring villain).
My party ended up really taking a shine to MikMek, and managed to barely survive the mite/vermin meatgrinder. Let's face it, everybody loves kobolds, nobody likes shriveled goblinlike fey who put razorblades in teddybears. The Abyssal sorceror is a diplomacy machine, so he works out the details with the cheif to take down Tartuk.
The Tartuk encounter was extremely anti climactic.
Tartuk: CAUSE FEAR!
Most of the party runs away, leaving the abyssal sorcerer,the halfling cleric, and the heavily armored paladin.
Abyssal Sorceror: CAUSE FEAR!
Tartuk flees behind his curtain out his secret escape route. The party laughs heartily, assuming that Tartuk is hiding behind a curtain. They start investigating the loot. They finally check behind the curtain to find there is a passage. Then the chase scene. The kobold chase scene. Sigh.....
My party cut through the mites like butter. The fey sorcerer of the party had no tolerance for evil fey and went wading through them with the wand of burning hands from the stash under the gnarled tree. After freeing Mikmek they returned the idol to Sootscale (enter anticlimactic walk through Sootscale caverns), he smashed it to pieces, and they joined him and some kobolds in the coup against Tartuk. Roleplaying the Sootscale/Tartuk dialogue (i.e. - playing with yourself) was interesting. They made a deal with Sootscale that they would leave each other alone.
My party cut through the mites like butter. The fey sorcerer of the party had no tolerance for evil fey and went wading through them with the wand of burning hands from the stash under the gnarled tree.
My players ran into the mites on the way to dealing with the kobolds. Since they were in the neighborhood and already knew the mites had the ring, they decided to exterminate them (after an initial, badly failed attempt at diplomacy).
After some arguing over the fate of Mikmek, they decided they liked him and let him lead them to the kobolds, where they delivered the statue to Sootscale (clever interrogation of an earlier kobold had warned them that Tartuk was not to be trusted). Sootscale promised the party anything they asked if they'd kill Tartuk while he kept his kobolds safe.
Tartuk is a bit nastier in my campaign (I had a feeling he'd be a solo encounter for the party, so I reworked him as a Summoner with a particularly nasty Eidolon) and the party barely managed to kill Tickbiter without any deaths; Tartuk himself managed to escape, badly wounded.
Next session, the PCs are going to finish their negotiations with Sootscale and go about tracking down and killing Tartuk (after the hard fight he gave them, they are determined not to let him become a recurring villain).
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My PCs recently encountered the kobolds in the radish patch, and proceeded to find out about the stolen "god" and the problem with the Mites. They're now asking where the kobold lair is so that they can get the "god" and return it.
We has a similar encounter ... only to find out that the mites were in the area, having captured some kobolds ... and while we were preoccupied, the mites made off with some of our gear ... but not before defecating and urinating in our packs and food stores.
It became quite easy to side with the kobolds after that, and Mikmek even hung with the group for awhile and even joined us in our first foray into mite extermination. (We eventually signed a peace treaty, recognizing Sootscale lands (including the mite's tree) and made Mikmek an ambassador for the Sootscales.
For the radish patch kobolds, I decided one of them was Nakpik, the one who's supposed to usher them into the caves if they get there first. He's currently hanging out at Oleg's after the assassin that Tartuk sent (Ikabik) was killed. They'll take him with them after they get the "god" back from the Mites. He's very popular with the PCs and I've been having fun playing him.
Now I have the idea of a kingdom event where kobolds are migrating to the Sootscale caves. People are concerned as large groups of Kobolds are on the move. If the PCs handle it diplomaticly, maybe increase the size of a kobold army the can recruit (I haven't looked at army rules yet).
races of the dragon.. atleast that one explains quite well how 20 kobolds turn into 3000+ in a few years, given food and peace. 500 wyrmling kobolds the first year, 25000 in the next generation in a about a year..
I guess this also explains why the gold mine is econ +1, the kobolds will be busy turning the sootscale caverns into a vast city above and below the surface, and quite willing to let the oomans come collect a few armies of 1000 kobolds :p
Also, id have the kobolds use offensive fortification. Ya know, how they spend just 1/4 in cost for traps.. so a properly prepared battlefield could be a killingfield for anything short of a murder of dragons :D
..pittraps, swinging logs, spears from the ground, sniperbunkers+ collapsing tunnels..
I was thinking of adapting the Kingdom rules for the Kobolds. Should they survive first contact with the players, I'd like to incorporate the Kobolds as a vassal city state.
I was thinking of restricting them to two hexes, and largely subterranean. I was thinking that the cost of developing hexes should be 5 times greater, although city development costs should be the same as for the humans. Subterranean cities should have a default high defense.
Of course the players would have to be convinced to lend the seed cash to the Kobolds... Perhaps by the King's son who's joined the group. Kobold fighting forces later on would also be interesting. (Darkvision, and Traps sounds like some great night raids....)
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I was thinking of adapting the Kingdom rules for the Kobolds. Should they survive first contact with the players, I'd like to incorporate the Kobolds as a vassal city state.
I was thinking of restricting them to two hexes, and largely subterranean. I was thinking that the cost of developing hexes should be 5 times greater, although city development costs should be the same as for the humans. Subterranean cities should have a default high defense.
Of course the players would have to be convinced to lend the seed cash to the Kobolds... Perhaps by the King's son who's joined the group. Kobold fighting forces later on would also be interesting. (Darkvision, and Traps sounds like some great night raids....)
Ultimate Rulership from Legendary Games has rules for underground cities; not quite so restrictive, I think.
Stats I worked up in case my PCs ally:
SOOTSCALE CAVERNS
LE Village; Pop. 25 kobolds
Corruption +1, Crime +1, Productivity 0, Law +2, Lore +1, Society 0
QUALITIES: Cavern City (Corruption +1, Society +1, Danger +5), Racially Intolerant (gnomes), Racial Enclave (kobolds; society -1), Smallfolk Settlement (Law +1, Lore +1, Medium creatures treat positive Crime and Society as negative)
Danger +6, Defense +1
DEMOGRAPHICS
Government: Autocracy
Population 25 kobolds
Notable NPCs: Chief Sootscale (LE male kobold rogue 3)
Buildings: City Wall (Def +1 Unrest -2), Tunnels (Crime +1, Danger +1), House (Unrest -1)
Special: Hex contains (silver) Mine