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As Tim said. They can't learn spells except when the gain levels and it adds to their spell list.
Though there is a 3pp feat that allows for a Sorcerer to learn a new spell slot for each spell level and it is treated just like wizards. In that with that one spot they can memorize like a Wizard one spell in that slot, from any spells in their spell book. I forget which book it is with that feat off the top of my head.
Sorcerers don't get bonus spells known. Only spells per day are affected by a high Cha.
Your best bet is wands and scrolls.
There is a feat in CArcane called Extra Spell (pre-req: CL 3rd) that allows you to add a spell to your 'spells known' list.
I have a sorcerer in my campaign that wants to learn spells using spellcraft checks, similar to a wizard, but with an additional modifier (dc + 5) or something. Any input would be helpful please. I'm kind of at a loss since I don't have a lot of experience. It seems like it would become a VERY overpowered character really fast once he learns all of the spells on the sorc/wiz spell list.
"VERY overpowered" indeed!
There's a reason why previous editions never went further than learning just ONE new spell, and that cost the sorcerer one of his precious few feats.
Just learning anything he wants to whenever he makes a ridiculously easy skill check would turn this class into a god.
1. Same spell selection as a wizard!!!
2. Never having to prepare any spells and *ALWAYS* having the right spell ready!!!
3. Can cast more spells than the wizard!!!
Might as well just throw the wizard class right out the window because this guy does it all, does it more often, is way better prepared, and never goes to bed at night with spells left in his head that he never got to use because he guessed wrong and prepared something he never got to use that day.
No, I would veto this request. Veto it fast and veto it loud.
Sorcerers don't get bonus spells known.
Technically not true in pathfinder: I think the OP is referring to the bloodline bonus spells known.
Sorcerers don't get bonus spells known.Technically not true in pathfinder: I think the OP is referring to the bloodline bonus spells known.
Yeh, you get bloodline spells, i was referring to table 3-15. These are fixed.
I'm DMing my first campaign and have hit a little snag.
Yeah as others have said don't let this happen. It will very quickly end with a sorcerer who knows every single spell in the book.
"VERY overpowered" indeed!There's a reason why previous editions never went further than learning just ONE new spell, and that cost the sorcerer one of his precious few feats.
Just learning anything he wants to whenever he makes a ridiculously easy skill check would turn this class into a god.
1. Same spell selection as a wizard!!!
2. Never having to prepare any spells and *ALWAYS* having the right spell ready!!!
3. Can cast more spells than the wizard!!!Might as well just throw the wizard class right out the window because this guy does it all, does it more often, is way better prepared, and never goes to bed at night with spells left in his head that he never got to use because he guessed wrong and prepared something he never got to use that day.
No, I would veto this request. Veto it fast and veto it loud.
Bah, you sound like my DM. His favorite words are "Too powerful." :P
But yes, that would make the Wizard obsolete if Sorceror's could learn all spells. For the reasons's DM_Blake stated. And the DC+5 is a joke. Any player with common sense is going to max out his Spellcraft with his Sorceror.
I actually like Sorceror's over Wizard's due to being easier to play, even though they have less flexibility for spell selection. But then that is what the feat "Extra Spell" is for. I hope that is something PF eventually incorporates.
Bah, you sound like my DM. His favorite words are "Too powerful." :P
For the record, those aren't my favorite words at all. In fact, I generally try to help players achieve what they want for their characters. Sometimes, that means I say "Not powerful enough" (I said that to a new player who joined my game a few weeks ago).
What I usually strive for is balance. Balance in game mechanics. Balance in party compatibility. Balance in ability to contribute to the adventure.
No, it doesn't have to be "perfect" balance; in fact it rarely is. I'll settle for "reasonable" balance.
A socerer with all spells known, more spells/day than a wizard, and full spontaneous casting is nowhere near balanced in any of those three categories I mentioned.
For the record, those aren't my favorite words at all. In fact, I generally try to help players achieve what they want for their characters. Sometimes, that means I say "Not powerful enough" (I said that to a new player who joined my game a few weeks ago).What I usually strive for is balance. Balance in game mechanics. Balance in party compatibility. Balance in ability to contribute to the adventure.
No, it doesn't have to be "perfect" balance; in fact it rarely is. I'll settle for "reasonable" balance.
A socerer with all spells known, more spells/day than a wizard, and full spontaneous casting is nowhere near balanced in any of those three categories I mentioned.
I was just kidding. :)
Seriously though, my DM is the same way. He has used the “Too powerful” many times, but more so for him it is “balance, balance, balance.” He is a very good DM overall, I have never seen anyone able to run a session 'from the hip’ more so than him.
But sometimes I think he goes too far in trying to balance where he might cut off worthwhile material because it isn’t “official” WoTC material. And I am guessing he’ll do the same with PF, as well.
A sorcerer CAN research new spells just like a wizard can, but they still can only add spells to their known spells when they level.
Example: A level 6 sorcerer wants to research a level 3 spell called fetid belch. They can research the spell just like a wizard would. They make the spell craft check and the spell is added to their spell list. When the sorcerer reaches level 7, they add another level 3 spell to their known spells. Since fetid belch is now on their spell list, they can pick it for their new level 3 spell.
You cannot use spell research to get around the sorcerer's known spell limit.
If you really want to expand your spell casting versatility as a sorcerer, get wands and scrolls for spells that are not on your known spell list. You can use a scroll or wand any spell on the sorcerer spell list. The wand or scroll spell does not have to be on your list of known spells.
A sorcerer CAN research new spells just like a wizard can, but they still can only add spells to their known spells when they level.
Example: A level 6 sorcerer wants to research a level 3 spell called fetid belch. They can research the spell just like a wizard would. They make the spell craft check and the spell is added to their spell list. When the sorcerer reaches level 7, they add another level 3 spell to their known spells. Since fetid belch is now on their spell list, they can pick it for their new level 3 spell.
You cannot use spell research to get around the sorcerer's known spell limit.
If you really want to expand your spell casting versatility as a sorcerer, get wands and scrolls for spells that are not on your known spell list. You can use a scroll or wand any spell on the sorcerer spell list. The wand or scroll spell does not have to be on your list of known spells.
That's a good point.
When I originally read the post, halfway through I thought this is what the poster meant - researching a brand new spell like you describe. But the last sentence made it clear that we weren't concerned with researching new spells but rather with adding an unlimited number of existing core spells to our total number of spells known.
A sorcerer CAN research new spells just like a wizard can, but they still can only add spells to their known spells when they level.
Example: A level 6 sorcerer wants to research a level 3 spell called fetid belch. They can research the spell just like a wizard would. They make the spell craft check and the spell is added to their spell list. When the sorcerer reaches level 7, they add another level 3 spell to their known spells. Since fetid belch is now on their spell list, they can pick it for their new level 3 spell.
You cannot use spell research to get around the sorcerer's known spell limit.
If you really want to expand your spell casting versatility as a sorcerer, get wands and scrolls for spells that are not on your known spell list. You can use a scroll or wand any spell on the sorcerer spell list. The wand or scroll spell does not have to be on your list of known spells.
That's a good point.
When I originally read the post, halfway through I thought this is what the poster meant - researching a brand new spell like you describe. But the last sentence made it clear that we weren't concerned with researching new spells but rather with adding an unlimited number of existing core spells to our total number of spells known.
Agreed, but all the responses made it sound like a sorcerer researching new spells wasn't allowed period. That is why I posted clarifying how sorcerer research would work.
So a sorcerer can use a spellcraft check to "add" a spell to the sorc/wiz list and can then learn it when they level. Would you guys consider it logical to extend this rule to all spontaneous casters, like an inquisitor or summoner? Would that end up overpowering the classes?
As long as the spell belongs on the list.
By the RAW a cleric could use independent research to add fireball to the cleric list, but it is the DM's job to realize that fireball does not belong on the cleric list and say no.
By the RAW a cleric could use independent research to add fireball to the cleric list, but it is the DM's job to realize that fireball does not belong on the cleric list and say no.
YOU"RE KILLING MY CHARACTER CONCEPT!!!
;)
Besides, flame strike is SOOOO much more fun :)
noob question, what's RAW?
Rules As Written.
noob question, what's RAW?
Rules As Written.
Edit - Ninjaed!
You will also see RAI - Rules As Intended
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So a sorcerer can use a spellcraft check to "add" a spell to the sorc/wiz list and can then learn it when they level. Would you guys consider it logical to extend this rule to all spontaneous casters, like an inquisitor or summoner? Would that end up overpowering the classes?
As Charender pointed out it's up to the GM to decide whether a particular spell fits well with a class. A simple rule of thumb is it's unlikely that a spell that exists but isn't on that classes spell list is probably not a good fit.
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By the RAW a cleric could use independent research to add fireball to the cleric list, but it is the DM's job to realize that fireball does not belong on the cleric list and say no.YOU"RE KILLING MY CHARACTER CONCEPT!!!
;)
Besides, flame strike is SOOOO much more fun :)
if by fun you mean more lame! I was disheartened by the silly flamestrike rules. It seems much worse than fireball, unless you are going against fire immmune/resistant creatures.