I know there's a few, pretty sure all being exotic weapons of course.
From the top of my head the Urumi comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are a few more. I don't have my books with me at the moment and the SRD only has basic weapons.
Anybody can remember some?
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I know there's a few, pretty sure all being exotic weapons of course.
From the top of my head the Urumi comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are a few more. I don't have my books with me at the moment and the SRD only has basic weapons.Anybody can remember some?
I thought that was something that Pathfinder was trying to get rid of?
Whip is one.
I thought that was something that Pathfinder was trying to get rid of?I know there's a few, pretty sure all being exotic weapons of course.
From the top of my head the Urumi comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are a few more. I don't have my books with me at the moment and the SRD only has basic weapons.Anybody can remember some?
Probably. Still some are around. In the Campaign Setting notably, which is still in its 3.5 version. Relics of as-of-yet un-updated books I guess.
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Whip is one.
except that the whip does not threaten anything:
Whip: A whip deals no damage to any creature with an armor bonus of +1 or higher or a natural armor bonus of +3 or higher. The whip is treated as a melee weapon with 15-foot reach, though you don't threaten the area into which you can make an attack. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, you can use it against foes anywhere within your reach (including adjacent foes).
Using a whip provokes an attack of opportunity, just as if you had used a ranged weapon.
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a whip sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon
That and you generate AoO when using it.
except that the whip does not threaten anything:
That and you generate AoO when using it.So, I guess you do threaten someone when you use a whip. Yourself!
Yeah, judging from personal experiences and witnesses, that would be pretty much true...
Well, otherwise the idea of using TWF with sword and whip for the trip,stab combo is ugly. Now, if I could find a one handed reach weapon.....except that the whip does not threaten anything:
That and you generate AoO when using it.So, I guess you do threaten someone when you use a whip. Yourself!
The above-mentioned Urumi. Kind of a whip sword. Ugly but deadly. Between that and the Sawtooth Blade, that PF campaign setting has quite a strong cheddar smell...
I thought that was something that Pathfinder was trying to get rid of?I know there's a few, pretty sure all being exotic weapons of course.
From the top of my head the Urumi comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are a few more. I don't have my books with me at the moment and the SRD only has basic weapons.Anybody can remember some?
There is one in the Dwarf Companion. It's just that you need to use a action to switch it reach 5' to 10' and back. Don't remember exactly what the weapon was or if it was swift or move action to change the reach though. Don't have the book handy to check.
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There is one in the Dwarf Companion. It's just that you need to use a action to switch it reach 5' to 10' and back. Don't remember exactly what the weapon was or if it was swift or move action to change the reach though. Don't have the book handy to check.
Dorn-durger or something. Move action to change grips, a big metal chain with a big metal ball at one end (two-handed exotic weapon).
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First, my group has gotten great use out of the -4 non-proficient penalty rule. Want to use the butt end of a spear to smack the guy who just walked up in your face? -4 and go for it.
That's a cool concept, and a sort of sideways means of putting 'stunts' (like in Mutants & Masterminds) into the game.
I like! Don't say 'no,' say, 'fine, roll, at X penalty!'
Want to become "proficient" with attacking both at Reach and right up? That's what feats are for. We call ours Choke Up.
Also cool, and I know I've seen that one around before. Something Haft something. It's a solid concept.
Meteor Hammer from Legacy of Fire player's guide might qualify - it's a bit unclear if it has reach in it's TWF "style".
I thought that was something that Pathfinder was trying to get rid of?I know there's a few, pretty sure all being exotic weapons of course.
From the top of my head the Urumi comes to mind, but I'm pretty sure there are a few more. I don't have my books with me at the moment and the SRD only has basic weapons.Anybody can remember some?
Not just trying, actively doing.
It was back in the Alpha/Beta tests somewhere... I think it was James Jacobs, could have been Jason Bulmahn who said - flat out - that weapons that give reach and threaten adjacent squares are too good, and will be dealt with. (Heavily paraphrased.)
Also cool, and I know I've seen that one around before. Something Haft something. It's a solid concept.
Short Haft, PHB 2 (3.5), requires +3 BAB
I think nearly all the weapons that now threaten adjacent and have reach are exotic, which lessens their impact, somewhat (since you need to burn a feat for proficiency).
Does the Dorn-whatever qualify as a racial weapon for Dwarves?
The bladed scarf from the RotR Player's Guide has reach and can attack adjacent, IIRC. It's an exotic weapon, though.
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Does the Dorn-whatever qualify as a racial weapon for Dwarves?
Dwarves do indeed treat the Michael Dorn as a martial weapon.
And with a feat, you can switch it from 10 ft. to 5 ft. reach as a swift action.
With a different feat, you can use it as a one-handed weapon (but then switching Reach is a full-round action, or, if you have the other feat, a move action).
The dorn-dergar was introduced in the Dwarves of Golarion. As far as I know it is the only weapon published under PRPG with reach that can threaten adjacent squares.
It is an exotic weapon and is a martial weapon for dwarves.
It is a move action to change grips though a feat can be learned that makes the switch a swift action.
Considering the nerfing of the spiked chain I find the introduction of this item VERY strange.
I don't really see it as that strange, needing to take a move action or even a swift action means that you do not threaten everybody with in 10 feet, you either threaten 10 feet out or you threaten adjacent, meaning opponents moving around you are not entering a 5 by 5 square shell o' death, it also means that you can't whirlwind attack or or great cleave into 24 squares around yourself. these are large limitations compared to 3.5 reach+adjacent weapons such as the spiked chain.
Well the bladed scarf has kept it's reach and adjacent ability according to an NPC in "what lies in dust".
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Well the bladed scarf has kept it's reach and adjacent ability according to an NPC in "what lies in dust".
That's a messed up weapon right there, beating out even the spiked chain for stirring up my nerdrage. A scarf, light and airy enough that you can dance around with it and nobody can tell it has metal razors sewn onto the back, *that hits for the same damage as a shortsword!*
'Uh, the gypsy dancer just flicked her scarf at that goblin and *cut it in half!*' Run away! Run away!
Speaking of improbable reach weapons, check out my swinging cod. :/
Probably not what the OP is after, but what is wrong with reach weapon+ armor spikes or reach weapon+unarmed strikes?
well, other than having to enchant 2 weapons, that is?
Being a fully proficient Dorn-dueling dwarf dork requires at least two feats, three if you're not a class with martial weapon proficiency, and BAB +4. On the face of it, that seems a significant low level to mid level investment for some tactical advantage.
For example, a Dwarf Ouat caste huscarl monk wielding a Dorn-dreger would need to be level 9, with three feats invested, to fully utilize a Dorn.
also after careful re-reading, the meteor hammer is always a reach weapon and never threatens adjacent squares, by RAW.
Also, Vorpal Bladed Scarves, anyone?
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TANGENT
my group has gotten great use out of the -4 non-proficient penalty rule.That's a cool concept, and a sort of sideways means of putting 'stunts' (like in Mutants & Masterminds) into the game.
I like! Don't say 'no,' say, 'fine, roll, at X penalty!'
Like I said, we get a lot of mileage out of that rule. Are you trying to swing a sword while sitting on horseback without the Mounted Combat feat .. take a -4 penalty. Are you shooting a bow from a moving platform such as a wagon or using a weapon while flying ... take a -4 penalty until you take a feat that makes you "practiced/proficient" at it.
I'm a big believer in adapting and extrapolating existing rules rather than devising new ones.
/TANGENT
R.
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of "No" either I'm also not a big fan of iterative attacks +20/+15/+10/+5...k...Combat should be more "free-form"
I'll be releasing something about that in the future.
We simply use the "Catch off Guard" feat for all those different uses of weapons.
Shaft blows, blows with the pommel of a sword, attacks with a buckler... etc all go under improvised weaponry because they aren't attacks that the item was "designed" for (in pathfinder at least if not real world).
For those that say you can't choke up on a 15 foot pole arm because of the length of the polearm, I agree -- however the pathfinder pole arm isn't 15 feet long otherwise you would be able to hit things with it 20 feet away instead of just 10. The shaft length (in pathfinder) is more likely in the 5~7 feet range -- or a "dueling" pole arm more than a tactical battle field one.
I don't really see it as that strange...
I do not think the way spiked chains work or the way the dorn-dergar works are strange individually. The strange part is how the designers have amputated the spiked chain only to change their mind about dual-reach weapons and introduce a new one.
I think the dorn-dergar mechanics would work fine with the spiked chain and think they should make an amendment to the spiked chain since they have allowed the dorn-dergar.The dorn-dergar rules would work well with the bladed scarf, meteor hammer, etc.
The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
But it has not see an official update since the release of PRGP, has it?
But it has not see an official update since the release of PRGP, has it?The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
Sure has it's been used in an adventure path with the same stats that it had before. "What lies in Dust" specifically (which I already mentioned).
Sure has it's been used in an adventure path with the same stats that it had before. "What lies in Dust" specifically (which I already mentioned).But it has not see an official update since the release of PRGP, has it?The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
I know it was used, but was it actually statted and described. Because if it was not I would hardly consider it official. Rather it was an oversigt of the adventure's author.
It is supposed to be getting new stats in adventurer's armory I thinkBut it has not see an official update since the release of PRGP, has it?The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
Nice
The Improvised Weapon Chain. It uses two hands, but it has two different reach lengths.
NiceIt is supposed to be getting new stats in adventurer's armory I thinkBut it has not see an official update since the release of PRGP, has it?The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
It is being currently used by NPCs in the CoT campaign. The sisters assassins to be specific. However they did not give the specific weapon stats in the stat block.
Probably not what the OP is after, but what is wrong with reach weapon+ armor spikes or reach weapon+unarmed strikes?
well, other than having to enchant 2 weapons, that is?
Twice the feats to focus and specialize. I want to see exactly how broken a fighter can be if you put your mind to it.
The Bladed scarf really wins the cheesefest. It's even a 2-handed weapon, so theres incrased Strenght and Power attack damage to boot(unless I'm missing something).
Only "redeeming" qualities is that it looks so damn... well, I'll use the term "unfitting", for any self-rescpectfing macho fighter, and can really be a major turnoff for all the hulking brutes out-there. Might reduce its use somewhat. Fighting with a scarf? Come on...
Only "redeeming" qualities is that it looks so damn... well, I'll use the term "unfitting", for any self-rescpectfing macho fighter, and can really be a major turnoff for all the hulking brutes out-there. Might reduce its use somewhat. Fighting with a scarf? Come on...
Well, the question is: "what exactly do you need to manufacture in order to call something a 'bladed scarf?'"
If it has to be cloth with blades in it, then what the hell - use thread woven with cold iron, adamantine blades, and paint a picture of a chain on it. Might as well be a spiked chain.
Personally, I think there was just a wee bit too much pouty "I don't like X so I'm taking it out of the game" going on during game design, but it's a moot point now.
And I have to agree - nerfing spiked chain and then introducing other things a heck of a lot like it is just silly.
The Bladed scarf really wins the cheesefest. It's even a 2-handed weapon, so theres incrased Strenght and Power attack damage to boot(unless I'm missing something).
Wait, isn't it a light weapon?
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Personally I'd like to see one of these long flexible weapons come with the double weapon ability...
They had a feat for that in the Scarred Lands for use with the Spiked Chain (perhaps even a class ability as well, as they had a Monk PrC geared entirely around the spiked chain, the signature weapon of the LE god of tyranny and slavers).
It is being currently used by NPCs in the CoT campaign. The sisters assassins to be specific. However they did not give the specific weapon stats in the stat block.NiceIt is supposed to be getting new stats in adventurer's armory I thinkBut it has not see an official update since the release of PRGP, has it?The bladed scarf as it's written is the new spiked chain. Reach & adjacent, trip, useful while grappling...eau de fromage.
Zo
The reach damage and crit range are all there. In addition to the tactics part before the actual block.
Wait, isn't it a light weapon?
The Bladed scarf really wins the cheesefest. It's even a 2-handed weapon, so theres incrased Strenght and Power attack damage to boot(unless I'm missing something).
PF power attack can be used with light weapons. that one caught me by surprise too, doesn't make too much sense IMHO...
But would a reach and adjacent weapon be even close to as good as archery is currently?
Wait, isn't it a light weapon?
The Bladed scarf really wins the cheesefest. It's even a 2-handed weapon, so theres incrased Strenght and Power attack damage to boot(unless I'm missing something).
From the end of the weapon entry (the one in ROTR player's handbook):
"You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier
instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls with a bladed
scarf sized for you, even though it isn’t a light weapon for you."
Also classified under exotic two-Handed melee weapons. Its a good thing it is'nt light too. Two of those? Yikes...
I don't really see it as that strange...I do not think the way spiked chains work or the way the dorn-dergar works are strange individually. The strange part is how the designers have amputated the spiked chain only to change their mind about dual-reach weapons and introduce a new one.
They didn't "change their minds". The D3 is only vaguely reminiscent of the 3.5 spiked chain. Most importantly to this discussion, it cannot be used to attack both an adjacent target and a reach target in the same attack sequence. This is nothing new to Pathfinder, because the Lunge feat allows this to be done with any non-reach weapon.
They didn't "change their minds".
That's true. I conceptualized and designed the dorn-dergar and had nothing to do with the spiked chain nerf (though I was conscious of not trying to recreate the spiked chain, since I knew they would probably say no).
The idea of the weapon, though, was to build up to a capstone feat, but the feat got cut. =(
Also cool, and I know I've seen that one around before. Something Haft something. It's a solid concept.
Short Haft, PHB 2 (3.5), requires +3 BAB
I think nearly all the weapons that now threaten adjacent and have reach are exotic, which lessens their impact, somewhat (since you need to burn a feat for proficiency).
Does the Dorn-whatever qualify as a racial weapon for Dwarves?
Another feat to consider is Shorten Grip from the Dragon Compendium (a book chok full of Paizo goodness). It lets you strike adjacent foes with a reach weapon at a -2 to the attack roll.
