| Wycen |
So this is a class for the Advanced Players Guide. What does advanced mean?
1. For older players?
2. For maturer players?
3. Power gamers?
4. For smarter players?
Whatever your pick(s), I have to hope the Extracts remain a personal form of magic, rather than the spell in the form of a potion. I am playing Pathfinder, not 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons. To borrow Melan's phrase (or whoever if my memory fails), please don't impose your tyranny of fun on me. Not all classes have to be "fair" or balanced.
And don't make infusion a first level ability. In fact, remove it from the list and turn it into a feat if you really need to have it. Even a feat you can take at first level will be ok.
I have no problem finding ways to be useful to the party without buffing them. I can provide flanking bonuses. I can provide Aid to others, or pour a healing potion down someone's throat. I can stand in the back and wave my hands and hope the wand triggers or I bluff the goblins into thinking I'm about to lob a fireball. Heck, if I'm really selfish I can wonder around the terrain or throne room looting or looking for secret doors while my cohorts do the heavy lifting.
I think the Discoveries should come maybe a level sooner.
I think a few of the zero level spells would be appropriate as extracts, but as they'd be horrible as first level extracts, I don't know what to say about them. I almost want some sort of "unlimited" ability like a magic user, but don't know what to suggest.
Also, the mutagen is great for the DEX or CON boost, but STR doesn't seem to me the field an alchemist is going to excel in. Maybe throw in Improved Unarmed Strike or Natural attack. I'm not so worried about this, when I used it I wasn't thinking ahead so while I made a great flanker, I couldn't hit anything.
Alright, that's all I got off the top of my head, I have to get back to studying for a midterm, but I hope Extracts don't turn into a buff for everybody.
| ProfessorCirno |
Whatever your pick(s), I have to hope the Extracts remain a personal form of magic, rather than the spell in the form of a potion. I am playing Pathfinder, not 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons. To borrow Melan's phrase (or whoever if my memory fails), please don't impose your tyranny of fun on me. Not all classes have to be "fair" or balanced.
So right from the start, you're saying "I'm perfectly fine with classes that suck." Ok.
And don't make infusion a first level ability. In fact, remove it from the list and turn it into a feat if you really need to have it. Even a feat you can take at first level will be ok.
So now it's a class everyone hates on top of being one that you want to suck.
I have no problem finding ways to be useful to the party without buffing them. I can provide flanking bonuses.
No you can't.
I can provide Aid to others, or pour a healing potion down someone's throat.
You are now an NPC hireling.
I can stand in the back and wave my hands and hope the wand triggers
]
An NPC hireling with UMD
or I bluff the goblins into thinking I'm about to lob a fireball.
No you can't.
Heck, if I'm really selfish I can wonder around the terrain or throne room looting or looking for secret doors while my cohorts do the heavy lifting
.
Yes, I'm catching on rather quickly that you hate playing with others.
In fact, that's more or less your whole post. "I'm fine with this class being worthless, and I'm the guy every group of players hates."
Congrats, I guess? If you want a selfish class that can't do anything, be a commoner with UMD. And play alone. Because you won't have any friends after stealing all their money and treasure while contributing nothing.
| Ellington |
Whatever your pick(s), I have to hope the Extracts remain a personal form of magic, rather than the spell in the form of a potion. I am playing Pathfinder, not 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons. To borrow Melan's phrase (or whoever if my memory fails), please don't impose your tyranny of fun on me. Not all classes have to be "fair" or balanced
Are you serious?
... okay then.
Teamplay has been a part of Dungeons and Dragons from the very beginning. You can play a selfish character without having the class mechanics directly supporting some narrow character concept you have. Just don't hand out extracts, simple as that. There's no need for the class to be made horrible just because you want to play with a significant handicap.
I don't see exactly what you want out of the class. You mention Use Magic Device, flanking, aiding others and looking around for secret doors; You can play an Expert if you want to do that, they don't have any extracts you have to you share with your teammates.
| A Man In Black RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32 |
I think the main reason that people are pushing for extracts to be usable on other party members is because the alchemist is really weak solo. An alchemist needs to waste turns buffing just to catch up with the rest of the party, and has to exhaust character-building resources to do that in the first place.
If the alchemist could get things done on his own, I don't think people would mind selfish extracts quite as much.
| Mortagon |
I think the main reason that people are pushing for extracts to be usable on other party members is because the alchemist is really weak solo. An alchemist needs to waste turns buffing just to catch up with the rest of the party, and has to exhaust character-building resources to do that in the first place.
If the alchemist could get things done on his own, I don't think people would mind selfish extracts quite as much.
So true, by the time the alchemist in my party has finished buffing up, the battle is usually over. He's most useful when he's throwing bombs or healing between battles. As for ego-centric classes, there's no need to make one, every class can be played as a self-centered jerk, it's mostly up to the player.