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Okay, I'm trying to set up an encounter for my players. It is the openning encounter of the campaign so I want to get it right. The PCs are guarding a caravan travelling from Noah's Landing to Silverton, a journey of six days. On day two they are attacked by minions of a new bandit lord looking to get treasure and captives. The party is is composed of a cleric, a rouge, a fighter, a sorcerer (elemental(fire) bloodline), and a fifth character that hasn't been rolled up yet.. They are all 3rd level and they are attcked by a pair of boggards, four lizardmen, and a goblin riding a goblin dog. Is this a decent encounter based on the party involved?
What spells does the sorcerer have? If he can cast an area effect spell like Sleep or Color Spray, it should be easy enough.
Pinning all of the party's hopes on one party member having the winner spell isn't really fair. Assuming the boggards get any action at all, the sorcerer has something like a 20-25% chance to end up frightened, and everyone else in the party (save for the question mark) runs the risk of getting swarmed and beaten to death.
If the boggards both use their croak ability, it's likely that the lizardfolk and goblins will end up running away! That's not much of a swarm, is it?
Even a couple of Burning Hands spells (which the sorcerer is guaranteed to know) should do a decent job at mopping up a bunch of lizardfolk peons. Of course, if this is an ambush or if clever tactics are being used by the enemy, that's much more difficult.
Are we talking a 15 point buy? What hps do the PCs get? Wealth? Experienced players?
If you have the monsters come marching across the desert, the PCs should destroy them. If they surprise the party from the top of a steep canyon, it could be a TPK.
Even a couple of Burning Hands spells (which the sorcerer is guaranteed to know)Why? That spell is stone cold terrible.
It's the elemental sorcerer bonus spell. Yes, it's incredibly weak, but lizardfolk and goblins are incredibly weak too. It's a match made in heaven!
Anyway. Play-by-play aside, a good rule of thumb for swarms of little jerks at low levels is to figure out what the average expected damage is if the party is surprised or loses initiative. If the damage is enough to drop people, then you need to chill out the swarm.
Good idea.
Better to undershoot than overshoot.
This is good advice. Once the party is used to working together, and you are used to challenging them, it will be easier to create appropriate challenges that keep them on their toes without wiping them out.
Until then, it's better to play conservatively. TPK on the initial encounter of a campaign is poor form.
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I think the party could handle four lizard folk and two boggards, as long as the boggards blow their croaks in a way that doesn't effect the party (say, by disabling the other caravan guards).
Take the 1/hour fear away, set the mobs up so no more than two end up next to a single PC, and they'll be fine. With this encounter, it's not that the mobs are hard, it's the surprise and the number of them - if they fear the party and all go after one target, he's gone.
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Are we talking a 15 point buy? What hps do the PCs get? Wealth? Experienced players?
If you have the monsters come marching across the desert, the PCs should destroy them. If they surprise the party from the top of a steep canyon, it could be a TPK.
20 point buy, they get Max hp upto third level. 1200 gp for wealth and the least experienced player has seven years under his belt. The monsters will be attacking out of a swamp.
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It is the openning encounter of the campaignMy first impression is that it's a borderline encounter in terms of difficulty. You need flexibility here, particularly since it's the first session of the campaign.
I planned on staggering the encounter, The boggards will attack on round one, the lizardfolk and goblins a few rounds later. I may drop the second wave if the PCs seem to be overwhelmed, otherwise I will have them come in about the time the boggards are sying off. The main point of the encounter is to introduce the idea that this new warlord has been uniting the various factions of the Great Oak Swamp into a single force, something that hasn't happened in 60 years in the game world.
I'd be tempted to come at the encounter from a story angle, but you may simply want balance/challenge feedback.
Send them in waves. Decide which opponents make the most interesting of the combat encounter. If the PCs are handling it, then bring in the reinforcements. If not, then act as if the had not been in your plans and give them a little bit of dignity even though they got themselves spanked around. It's all about learning how to work together with the new PCs in the beginning and nothing would disrupt it more than a TPK at the start of a campaign arc.
The main point of the encounter is to introduce the idea that this new warlord has been uniting the various factions of the Great Oak Swamp into a single force, something that hasn't happened in 60 years in the game world.
In that case, I'd suggest dropping one of the boggards rather than dropping the lizardfolk and goblin(s). Nobody really likes spending the whole combat running away in fright.
The main point of the encounter is to introduce the idea that this new warlord has been uniting the various factions of the Great Oak Swamp into a single force, something that hasn't happened in 60 years in the game world.In that case, I'd suggest dropping one of the boggards rather than dropping the lizardfolk and goblin(s). Nobody really likes spending the whole combat running away in fright.
That's probably more of a sensible approach.
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The main point of the encounter is to introduce the idea that this new warlord has been uniting the various factions of the Great Oak Swamp into a single force, something that hasn't happened in 60 years in the game world.In that case, I'd suggest dropping one of the boggards rather than dropping the lizardfolk and goblin(s). Nobody really likes spending the whole combat running away in fright.
That is kind of the direction I am leaning. I may drop a couple of the lizardfolk as well.
I'd be tempted to come at the encounter from a story angle, but you may simply want balance/challenge feedback.Either works.
Then for my money, boggards and lizardmen working together is more obvious from the story angle of uniting factions of the swamp. Unless you want to make up water goblins. (Lazier but tougher would be water orcs or half-orcs.)
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Then for my money, boggards and lizardmen working together is more obvious from the story angle of uniting factions of the swamp. Unless you want to make up water goblins. (Lazier but tougher would be water orcs or half-orcs.)I'd be tempted to come at the encounter from a story angle, but you may simply want balance/challenge feedback.Either works.
It has already been established in the background that goblins infest the swamp as well. In fact the road's name, Gallows Way, comes from an incident about 150 years ago when a local lord rounded up a bunch of swamp goblins who had been raiding silver shipments and hung them along the road, one per mile for 100 miles.
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Well starting with the highest CR creature we have a Boggard as CR 2
8 creatures total but the goblin is a 1/3 cr and a second boggard is a CR2 so lets say 7 creatures or +6
That is a CR of +5 or an EL of 6
APL is 3
which means this is an Epic encounter for them. So it should be tough but if they are fully healed and have equipement equivelent to thier group then it is not impossible based on the RAW.
I think I may go with others here and just say drop the Goblin and his pet.
It drops the EL to 5 and if it is an ambush you can even say it is an EL6 for circumstances.
Just my quick 2 CP
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It has already been established in the background that goblins infest the swamp as well. In fact the road's name, Gallows Way, comes from an incident about 150 years ago when a local lord rounded up a bunch of swamp goblins who had been raiding silver shipments and hung them along the road, one per mile for 100 miles.Then for my money, boggards and lizardmen working together is more obvious from the story angle of uniting factions of the swamp. Unless you want to make up water goblins. (Lazier but tougher would be water orcs or half-orcs.)I'd be tempted to come at the encounter from a story angle, but you may simply want balance/challenge feedback.Either works.
That is a cool background and I may have to snag it for later :)
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That is a cool background and I may have to snag it for later :)It has already been established in the background that goblins infest the swamp as well. In fact the road's name, Gallows Way, comes from an incident about 150 years ago when a local lord rounded up a bunch of swamp goblins who had been raiding silver shipments and hung them along the road, one per mile for 100 miles.Then for my money, boggards and lizardmen working together is more obvious from the story angle of uniting factions of the swamp. Unless you want to make up water goblins. (Lazier but tougher would be water orcs or half-orcs.)I'd be tempted to come at the encounter from a story angle, but you may simply want balance/challenge feedback.Either works.
Steal away.
Incidentally why does the PRD page for Burning Hands have a picture of a lowbie dwarf priest from WOW on it?
Because Dan Scott allows his art to be used so long as it is for non-commercial purposes and I liked the pic. Oh and because the figure had uhh burning.. hands.. I use whatever art I can get my .. hands on that is royalty free, on the paizo blog, part of the cup, or donated by artists (in the case of several excellent pieces by Chris Malidore).
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Why are boggards lizardfolk and a goblin working together. Mr. Fishy knows there's a new bandit in the area, but wouldn't the lizards and boggard eat the goblin?
Is the Goblin in command? Cause that would be cool. Goblin hangs back and issues orders and arrows, while the lizards run in as shock troops and the boggard stands as reserve, or as a caster smasher. Sweet!
Mr. Fishy wants to raid a caravan, er protect again.
Mr. Fishy is not the good.
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Why are boggards lizardfolk and a goblin working together. Mr. Fishy knows there's a new bandit in the area, but wouldn't the lizards and boggard eat the goblin?
No because goblins taste like whale poo while elfses taste like filet of sole. Which would you rather eat?
Okay, I have scaled the encountr down to one boggard, two lizardfolk, and the goblin and goblin dog. Is this a better fit?
I suspect they'll get squashed pretty quickly without a fuss (assuming they don't all focus their attacks on the squishiest character, say).
Why are boggards lizardfolk and a goblin working together. Mr. Fishy knows there's a new bandit in the area, but wouldn't the lizards and boggard eat the goblin?
Is the Goblin in command? Cause that would be cool. Goblin hangs back and issues orders and arrows, while the lizards run in as shock troops and the boggard stands as reserve, or as a caster smasher. Sweet!
Mr. Fishy wants to raid a caravan, er protect again.
Mr. Fishy is not the good.
Mr. Fishy has failed to understand, "it has been established." That's okay, Mr. Fishy. Mairkurion made the same mistake...but before Fryer said, "it has been established." Mairkurion wonders what happens when Fryer meets Mr. Fishy. Probably the same thing that would happen to those goblins, but with a nice golden batter and malt vinegar.
OK, so two lizard folk, a goblin calvary, and a boggard are walking along a trade route?
Why? You asked for advice. Mr. Fishy is trying to understand the set up. A leader strong enough to unite fighting tribes probably has a plan.
The question was why are they there are there? Are they looking for some thing.
The lizards are brutes, the goblin is a skimsher is there a plan? Is that the whole attacking group? Are goblins attacking and robbing the other wagons while the lizards and boggard detain the party of experienced guards?
Brutes? Skirmisher?
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They are looking for something. You see sixty years ago the new bandit leader was a footsoldier in the army of a man who was known only as The Dragonlord. The Dragonlord's army was defeated when they attacked the Great Lighthouse of Abadar. They seized the lighthouse, but as her dying act the high priestess prayed to Abadar and the Lighthouse was taken away, but rumor says it still exists in a pocket dimension that a very choice few of Abadar's clerics can access. There only a few years have passed. The bandit lord has learned that if he can gain access to the lighthouse, therer is a way to break the curse, but he needs a cleric who can gain access to the lighthouse before he can do it, and one such cleric is travelling with the caravan to become the new High Priest of Noah's Landing. The monster's who attack the PCs are part of a larger raiding force that attacks the caravan so there will be skirmishes going on all over.
Brutish skirmishes?
Brutish skirmishes?
Maikurion, you must be being sarcastic, you never post stupid-ass opinions like that unless you're being sarcastic.
Bastard.
Bastard.
I forgot the smileys! :)
There are some things a smiley can't do.
Oh, I'll show you some lingo...
I can tell...from the lingo. ;)
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Mr. Fishy doesn't play 4th. Some basic tactial profiling, some people call it tiering.
So the cleric is a target? Then goblins attemping to capture the cleric gives the players a fail option. If the fight is bad the goblins get the cleric and flee the fight ends and the PC's have a chance to follow and rescue.
Should be a cool game hope it works out.
Mr. Fishy doesn't play 4th. Some basic tactial profiling, some people call it tiering.
SHEEYIT...
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I don't think I'll ever be able to take a class that Mairkurion teaches without worrying about subjectivity. ;)