See for me its not "The older I get, the less I like Salvatore" its more of "the more he writes, the less I like Salvatore".
My point exactly. (Except that you stated it more succinctly.)
And I didnt think he was that awesome to begin with.
The thing is that Salvatore never made any pretentions of being a great literary giant. He simply wanted to entertain. And I feel that he DID - for six books, anyway.
Oh and PS: Drop the dark elf already or at the very least write about his kid or something. Jeesh.
Salvatore wanted to drop the dark elf... but TSR / WotC had to continue the Drizzt series - with or without Salvatore - due to money. Under those circumstances, what choice did Salvatore have?
I really enjoyed Salvatore for awhile. I hadn't read any of his stuff for quite a few years when someone let me borrow a copy of A Thousand Orcs. I was making a roux on the stovetop (nonstop stirring, no leaving the stove) one day so I grabbed the book to keep me company. After about the first forty pages I had to yell for someone to come bring me something else to read. Bleah...
A lot of great authors and books have already been mentioned, but I need to add Glen Cook's Black Company Series, and Gene Wolfe. Wonderful stuff.
The thing is that Salvatore never made any pretentions of being a great literary giant. He simply wanted to entertain. And I feel that he DID - for six books, anyway.
True.
Salvatore wanted to drop the dark elf... but TSR / WotC had to continue the Drizzt series - with or without Salvatore - due to money. Under those circumstances, what choice did Salvatore have?
He could have let someone else write the books and cash the checks. I don't blame him for taking whatever money TSR or WotC gave him to continue, but it's not like they chained him to the desk and whipped him until he shaped up. He could have just walked away and washed his hands of things.
A lot of great authors and books have already been mentioned, but I need to add Glen Cook's Black Company Series, and Gene Wolfe. Wonderful stuff.
I've been eyeing the Black Company series for some
time now...it sounded like something I would liketo read, didn't seem to be your typical fantasy book.
Can you describe some of it (the style/feel of the book)?
He could have let someone else write the books and cash the checks. I don't blame him for taking whatever money TSR or WotC gave him to continue, but it's not like they chained him to the desk and whipped him until he shaped up. He could have just walked away and washed his hands of things.
No he could not, he does not own drizzt if I am correct, it was write for hire, he does not own the setting or anything he creates for wotc or TSR. He was working for them. Sure he made the character but he does not own it.
So if he wants to get paid he write what they want him to write. And he does write his own stuff, but ya can't blame a man for writing more as it does pay for his home and family and keep his name out there. You may not like the books but they sell very well
The Drizzt stories are not an interesting as they once were because I know what will happen now. I did like the Artemis(and Jarlaxle) stories as those were less predictable, but the thing I really like that I have not seen in another book are his fight scene descriptions.
I have suffered through many pages to get to them.
I agree, there earlier books and the Artemis and Jalaxle books were better. I do enjoy his demon wars books a bit. I was done with the DRizzt books for good at a thousand orcs. So while I still enjoy Salvatore and agree his fight scenes are great I am long done with his Dark elf books and with the new time line any FR book, which most have not been good in a long time anyhow
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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The novel of Planescape: Torment was frankly terrible. It bore almost no resemblance to the actual game and wasn't even good fiction to begin with.
Yes. The game had an awesome story, perhaps the best CRPG story EVER. The book didn't live up to its origins.
No he could not, he does not own drizzt if I am correct, it was write for hire, he does not own the setting or anything he creates for wotc or TSR. He was working for them. Sure he made the character but he does not own it.
He could have let someone else write the books and cash the checks. I don't blame him for taking whatever money TSR or WotC gave him to continue, but it's not like they chained him to the desk and whipped him until he shaped up. He could have just walked away and washed his hands of things.
That's what I said. Drizzt is work for hire; WotC owns him. If Salvatore didn't want to write Drizzt anymore, he could have simply said no and let some other author write those Drizzt books he doesn't want to write. I don't blame him for ultimately saying yes and cashing the check (a fact I am now stating for the second time in as many posts), but in no way was he out of options if he didn't want to continue with Drizzt. Which is what the person I was responding to said he was.
@ Samnell
I think the point was that if another writer writes a Drizzt story, RA Salvatore gets nothing. No money, no royalties, no cheques to cash. Salvatore's status as the creator of Drizzt is worthless as he created Drizzt specifically for TSR, and he was bought along with all of TSR's other intellectual property by WotC.
The only way for Salvatore to make money out of Drizzt fiction is if he writes it.
Your second post seems to agree with this, but your first didn't, hence I think the confusion.
Read Jim Butcher's Dresden series. Haven't loved a series so much in years...and yeah, I've pretty much read everything up above. Plays right to us gamer types. I cannot recommend the series enough. He even consults with his gaming group when writing the stories, and goes right with all the tropes we know and love.
He's got a more standard fantasy series with his Furies of Calderon series. That's a good read...not great, but worth the time.
I'd also recommend some of the Felix and Gortek stuff from Warhammer. Haven't much got into their one-offs, although 40k is one of the few SF series I actually enjoy. Gaunt's Ghosts is my favorite military sci-fi series, and the INquisition books are generally excellent, too.
For simple, straight, easy to read and refreshingly honest and brutal, Simon Green does some good work with his old Hawk and Fisher novels, and the newer Drenaii ones. Expect sparse and clean imagery, not fantastic stuff...but it all works. Hawk and Fisher basically started the noir sword and sorcery movement.
===Aelryinth
So Drizzt finally got over himself long enough to knock Cattie Brie up? Or some other woman?
Read Jim Butcher's Dresden series.
Is this the same Dresden of the sci-fi channel? Not that I've seen more than one episode, but I'm curious all the same.
Is this the same Dresden of the sci-fi channel? Not that I've seen more than one episode, but I'm curious all the same.
It is, as much as I enjoyed the show the books are much more fun.
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A lot of great authors and books have already been mentioned, but I need to add Glen Cook's Black Company Series, and Gene Wolfe. Wonderful stuff.I've been eyeing the Black Company series for some
time now...it sounded like something I would like
to read, didn't seem to be your typical fantasy book.
Can you describe some of it (the style/feel of the book)?
A gritty mercenary company is hired by an evil mageocracy to help forcibly put down a rebellion.
The story is told through the eyes of the chronicler of the Black Company (the company physician named Croaker).Strong plot. Very good characters. No heroes, just shades of grey and black. Unique but maybe dry and hard to get into writing style. I think people (older than me) see a lot of vietnam war style fiction inspiration in the narrative. Cook in turn is one of the big inspirations for Erikson.
I highly recommend it, and if you have trouble getting started, push through, the entire series is good and should be dirt cheap at used bookstores.
EDIT - but don't take my word for it:
A comment on a post from the Grognardia blog quotes Gygax as saying this about the Black Company:
http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2009/10/pulp-fantasy-library-black-company.h tml
The Gygax recommendation is in issue #96 (April 1985), on page 9.
As printed:
A good “game” book
If you haven’t read The Black Company by Glen Cook (Tor Books, Tom Doherty Associates, Inc., 1984), then you are missing a good book which relates closely to the AD&D® game. I can’t swear that the author plays FRP games, let alone any of TSR’s offerings, but somehow he has captured the essence of them, regardless. The Black Company reads as if it were a literary adaptation of actual adventuring, as it were, in a swords & sorcery milieu akin to that of a proper AD&D game campaign. The style of writing is neither heroic nor swashbuckling. There is none of Robert E. Howard in the book. It is a dark work. Nevertheless, it is one fine bit of fantasy authorship. I recommend it to all role-playing game enthusiasts for many reasons, not the least of which is that it will assist in proper fantasy role-playing. For $2.95 this book will provide both reading enjoyment and much support for your RPG activity. It is one you shouldn’t miss.
I've been eyeing the Black Company series for some
time now...it sounded like something I would like
to read, didn't seem to be your typical fantasy book.
Can you describe some of it (the style/feel of the book)?
It's definitely not your typical fantasy book. The story is about a mercenary company, the Black Company, which is the last of the free companies of Khatovar. The company runs according to long held traditions, one of which is keeping a running record of the company's activities. The books themselves are told from the point of view of the company annalist. One of the greatest things about the novels is the way the narration changes as the position passes from one annalist to the next.
All in all, it's a rather gritty series, with a lot of dark humor. It's certainly not high fantasy. No elves, dwarves, etc. There are wizards aplenty, however, though most of them are ancient, evil things that aren't quite human any more. (Though at the start of the series, the Black Company has four wizards of its own: One-Eye, Tom-tom, Goblin, and Silent, though they are mere hedge wizards compared to others.) Given Cook's military service, his characters come off as real soldiers. They're not idealists; they just do the job as best they can.
Salvatore is a fiction hitman for hire. "Want me to drone endlessly on the repressed heroic drow who fights his very nature for a thousand books and creates an endless supply of tabletop clones and conversations about how much more awesome he is than any player character ever? No Prob!" CHA-CHING! "What's that Lucas? Kill CHewbacca? Done!" CHA-CHING!
And there you have it....
When Salvatore comes up, it's Drizzt that's the point of contention, and I can definitely dig that. The original series of books was, for me, pretty good, but I think it's unfortunate that it seems to have effected the entirety of the fantasy novel writing and RPG communities so much. Bring a drow character to my table and see how long it takes me to murder it; if one appears in a book I'm reading, the book is over.
A couple of positives, though: Salvatore's Cleric Quintet was good. I believed in the characters. I've read a lot worse.
I *thoroughly* enjoyed Brent Weeks' Night Angel trilogy. There were a couple of glitches for me - the author and editor missed a couple of continuity bumps in there - but nothing terminal, nothing terrible, and the story itself was really good. It felt like it was being roleplayed, and the player was seriously digging his character's new toys.
Now that I'm done with Night Angel, I'm on to Russell Kirkpatrick's world. I think he's 6 books in, and I picked up the first three. So far, the writing seems tight (if heavily populated) and inclined toward the epic.
Salvatore is a fiction hitman for hire. "Want me to drone endlessly on the repressed heroic drow who fights his very nature for a thousand books and creates an endless supply of tabletop clones and conversations about how much more awesome he is than any player character ever? No Prob!" CHA-CHING! "What's that Lucas? Kill CHewbacca? Done!" CHA-CHING!
One of the more disgraceful examples of fan behaviour I've seen are the STAR WARS fans who sent Salvatore death threats for killing Chewie, despite it being the editors' decision, not his, and it being reasonably well-known that his brother had died whilst writing the book. Seriously not cool.
Not to anyway diminish the seriousness of what Werthead said, but if these fans take their Star Wars novels that serious, then I really don't think they impose much of a threat to Salvatore, a former bouncer. Hey Chewie lovers, why don't you get out of the house and displace some of that love to a woman rather than a fictional apeman? Although that might be even scarier.
See for me its not "The older I get, the less I like Salvatore" its more of "the more he writes, the less I like Salvatore". And I didnt think he was that awesome to begin with.
I'm not that way. I read the one origin series, because the character was popping up in everything FR that ever came out. After one book, I thought "What an writer. Well, I'll see where the story goes." After the ... trilogy? 4-book series? I can't remember now how many I read... I swore, never again would I touch anything with his name on it.
I never read the Icewind Dale trilogy. But the character was pretty well-known, and I thought it was an interesting angle. "OK, here's the drow, and he's a good guy. Why?" So I figured that if I wanted to find out why he was a good guy, I should read his origin story. Fortunately, they compiled the paperbacks into a TPB I could get and find out the answer.
In everything I have read, Drow are evil by nature. The exist to bring night-time strikes against the surface world, and to drive the dangerous politics of the world beneath the surface. So why would this one drow reject that society and become a force for good? Surely I will find out in this series.
Only I didn't. The series tells about his childhood and early life, but never once touches on the idea of WHY he's not evil like every single other person around him. It tells how this particular non-evil child growing up in that evil society views the world around him, but it never once explains why he's good. He just is. The simple answer is "Because his swordmaster was good." But he was already good by his nature before he met the swordmaster.
So it was also a disappointment because it didn't answer the questions I would expect of an origin story. In addition to the other reasons I had for not liking it, which were mostly about the writing itself. I bought two Drizzt TPBs that day, and after reading the one, regretted having bought the other, because I know I'll never read it.
It's definitely not your typical fantasy book. The story is about a mercenary company, the Black Company, which is the last of the free companies of Khatovar. The company runs according to long held traditions, one of which is keeping a running record of the company's activities. The books themselves are told from the point of view of the company annalist. One of the greatest things about the novels is the way the narration changes as the position passes from one annalist to the next.All in all, it's a rather gritty series, with a lot of dark humor. It's certainly not high fantasy. No elves, dwarves, etc. There are wizards aplenty, however, though most of them are ancient, evil things that aren't quite human any more. (Though at the start of the series, the Black Company has four wizards of its own: One-Eye, Tom-tom, Goblin, and Silent, though they are mere hedge wizards compared to others.) Given Cook's military service, his characters come off as real soldiers. They're not idealists; they just do the job as best they can.
Sounds awesome and something I could get in to.
Thanks for the breakdown Shadow and Robert, muchappreciated :)
In everything I have read, Drow are evil by nature. The exist to bring night-time strikes against the surface world, and to drive the dangerous politics of the world beneath the surface. So why would this one drow reject that society and become a force for good? Surely I will find out in this series.
Only I didn't. The series tells about his childhood and early life, but never once touches on the idea of WHY he's not evil like every single other person around him. It tells how this particular non-evil child growing up in that evil society views the world around him, but it never once explains why he's good. He just is. The simple answer is "Because his swordmaster was good." But he was already good by his nature before he met the swordmaster.
Zaknafein was more than Drizzt's swordmaster. He was his biological father. The importance of this fact was downplayed by drow society, but should seem more significant to us. And Zaknafein fought for the right to teach Drizzt for longer than he otherwise would have been allowed to do, and was able to get some subtle hints to Drizzt that Menzoberranzan society was wrong. So both nature AND nurture were involved.
In fact, Zaknafein might have left Menzoberranzan himself, but lacked the strength to do so.
(Of course, you could argue that this explanation only pushes the question back a generation: why was Zaknafein good? In which case I would have to fall back to some stock answer like "there's one in every crowd.")
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It's definitely not your typical fantasy book. The story is about a mercenary company, the Black Company....Sounds awesome and something I could get in to.
Thanks for the breakdown Shadow and Robert, much
appreciated :)
I'd also like to put in a plug here for Cook's earlier fantasy works. The biggest one is the Dread Empire series (includes some kickass short stories, a trilogy, a duology, and the beginning of what might've been another trilogy or tetralogy if they hadn't stopped selling well), but the standalone novel The Swordbearer is also very good. Note on the the latter: It was the first fantasy novel he wrote, so it's kind of unpolished, but it's loaded with lots of good ideas.
His most recent series, The Instrumentalities of the Night, has quite a lot going for it as well.
Not to anyway diminish the seriousness of what Werthead said, but if these fans take their Star Wars novels that serious, then I really don't think they impose much of a threat to Salvatore, a former bouncer. Hey Chewie lovers, why don't you get out of the house and displace some of that love to a woman rather than a fictional apeman? Although that might be even scarier.
Wow. Did not know his brother died at that time. That's awful.
Still, I think the Salvatore hate was a bit of killing the messenger. Most SW fans I know(myself included) took umbrage not just at the death of the character, but the way it was done as well as the questionable motive(selling books? Developing Han without him? Who knows?). It was a kick in the schwartz for most, if not all of us. While I'm FAR from a Salvatore fan, but I don't hate him for this- I make sure to keep my ire pointed in the right direction.
It's definitely not your typical fantasy book. The story is about a mercenary company, the Black Company....Sounds awesome and something I could get in to.
Thanks for the breakdown Shadow and Robert, much
appreciated :)I'd also like to put in a plug here for Cook's earlier fantasy works. The biggest one is the Dread Empire series (includes some kickass short stories, a trilogy, a duology, and the beginning of what might've been another trilogy or tetralogy if they hadn't stopped selling well), but the standalone novel The Swordbearer is also very good. Note on the the latter: It was the first fantasy novel he wrote, so it's kind of unpolished, but it's loaded with lots of good ideas.
His most recent series, The Instrumentalities of the Night, has quite a lot going for it as well.
Awesome :)
looks like I have my work cut out for me, gonna have to makea trip to barnes and noble to "review" them some :)
I haven't read them, but the BLACK COMPANY series is extremely well-respected in many fantasy circles, and was a huge influence on the works of Steven Erikson. George R.R. Martin also rates them very highly, as does a number of US authors.
The BLACK COMPANY series and Glenn Cook's other works were not published in the UK until just last year, when the first BLACK COMPANY omnibus was published by Gollancz. Part of the reason for this may have been that the late British writer David Gemmell was doing some similar stuff in his works, the first of which is LEGEND. Gemmell's last work, the pseudo-historical TROY TRILOGY, is particularly good.
I haven't read them, but the BLACK COMPANY series is extremely well-respected in many fantasy circles, and was a huge influence on the works of Steven Erikson. George R.R. Martin also rates them very highly, as does a number of US authors.
The BLACK COMPANY series and Glenn Cook's other works were not published in the UK until just last year, when the first BLACK COMPANY omnibus was published by Gollancz. Part of the reason for this may have been that the late British writer David Gemmell was doing some similar stuff in his works, the first of which is LEGEND. Gemmell's last work, the pseudo-historical TROY TRILOGY, is particularly good.
After all the recommendations in this thread, I may have to give them another chance. I started one of them once a long time ago, and just couldn't get into it. It was the writing style for the most part, and the character names as well, I think, that threw me off.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I've stopped re-reading books I read when I was a kid after I read Pier Anthony's newest Incarnation book. Sweet Boccob, but that was terrible! How does a writer become less talented as they age?Piers Anthony always sucked. Some authors just get less talented as you age...
Heh. Yeah, you might be right. I'm afraid to try and go back to re-read anything in fear that's the case. Still, I have fond memories of On a Pale Horse and A Spell for Chameleon.
EDIT: You know, I just went back and re-read the synopsis for A Spell for Chameleon. Jeebus, I was wrong. You're right, he has always sucked. So much for that memory.
I'm in Piers Anthony's Steppe from Planet Stories right now. I'm not really impressed by it.
I remember loving Xanth when I was a kid... hmmm. Maybe I was daft.
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My first and only exposure to Piers Anthony was Firefly. Yeah...
After all the recommendations in this thread, I may have to give them another chance. I started one of them once a long time ago, and just couldn't get into it. It was the writing style for the most part, and the character names as well, I think, that threw me off.
His style really isn't for everyone. Hell, it's a good bit more sparse on detail than I would have preferred. But it's still worth a look-see.
I'm in Piers Anthony's Steppe from Planet Stories right now. I'm not really impressed by it.
I remember loving Xanth when I was a kid... hmmm. Maybe I was daft.
Was?
*ducks*
Ok, I admit it, the only thing that keeps me going is my love for Erik Mona.
Seriously, the only stuff I still like to read that I first read as a kid are the Tolkein books, Watership Down, Moorcock's stuff, Poul Anderson, Lovecraft, Burroughs, Howard, Vance, Lieber and a few others.
I never liked Anthony. Not a bit.
I liked him when I was 13. There is no way I'm going to go back to being 13 just to enjoy his books!
On a Pale Horse was one I almost got all the way through in college without disliking it too intensely.
The others you mention are, funnily enough, also all favorites of mine (except Poul Anderson - I haven't read any of his, I don't think). There is a lot to be said for quality writing.
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Seriously, the only stuff I still like to read that I first read as a kid are the Tolkein books, Watership Down, Moorcock's stuff, Poul Anderson, Lovecraft, Burroughs, Howard, Vance, Lieber and a few others.
I never liked Anthony. Not a bit.
I liked him when I was 13. There is no way I'm going to go back to being 13 just to enjoy his books!
On a Pale Horse was one I almost got all the way through in college without disliking it too intensely.
The others you mention are, funnily enough, also all favorites of mine (except Poul Anderson - I haven't read any of his, I don't think). There is a lot to be said for quality writing.
I highly recommend Poul Anderson, particularly Three Hearts and Three Lions (the '50s version if you can find it, there's an '80s rewrite I'm not sure of). That one book alone gave D&D its version of the paladin (and mount), gnome, troll, swanmay, and is a pretty awesome book even without the direct influence on our hobby :)
I highly recommend Poul Anderson, particularly Three Hearts and Three Lions (the '50s version if you can find it, there's an '80s rewrite I'm not sure of). That one book alone gave D&D its version of the paladin (and mount), gnome, troll, swanmay, and is a pretty awesome book even without the direct influence on our hobby :)Seriously, the only stuff I still like to read that I first read as a kid are the Tolkein books, Watership Down, Moorcock's stuff, Poul Anderson, Lovecraft, Burroughs, Howard, Vance, Lieber and a few others.
I never liked Anthony. Not a bit.
I liked him when I was 13. There is no way I'm going to go back to being 13 just to enjoy his books!
On a Pale Horse was one I almost got all the way through in college without disliking it too intensely.
The others you mention are, funnily enough, also all favorites of mine (except Poul Anderson - I haven't read any of his, I don't think). There is a lot to be said for quality writing.
I just had that one recommended to me somewhere else recently too. I think I'm going to add it to my list of must-read-very-soon's! thanks!
My recommendations:
Ursula K. LeGuin's Earthsea books. (The later ones aren't as finely honed as the originals). The magic in those books is much more appealing to me than the magic of D&D.
Patricia McKillip's RiddleMaster trilogy, written about 4 years later. Again, a lovely treatment of magic.
Both are generally YA novels, and McKillip's is oddly sex-less.
Lloyd Alexander's quintet the Chronicles of Prydain are also excellent.
I recommend Naomi Novik's dragon books quite highly.
Jim Butcher is known for his Dresden novels. I think his Codex Alara books are much better, but not as well known. He certainly avoids the formula repetition that the Dresden books have.
Prior to Terry Brooks and the Sword of Shannara, fantasy was published on artistic merits. There was a lot less of it, it was a hell of a lot less formulaic, and a lot more mythopeic. They also tended to be a lot shorter.
Then someone told Terry Brooks "Write like Tolkein" and the deluge of bad "Farmboy Hero Saves Teh World From UberBadBoss" fantasies with Plot Coupons spilled forth when that hit the NY Times bestseller list.
Salvatore's books have never been my taste. Salvatore the man is self-effacing and good company, and Salvatore the writer is known for producing a marketable product, on time, and within word count that needs minimal editing.
In a field where 99% of all writers make under 10K a year from fiction sales, the fact that Salvatore can write enough that he doesn't need to do other work is reason to say "Cool."
I used to like all kinds of D&D novels when I was in grade school. Weis and Hickman still have a nostalgiac place in my gamer's heart, but I've become completely apathetic about every other D&D novelist, if I wasn't already. I thought the first Drizzt trilogy was great when I read it, then came the twelve dozen others -- only half a dozen of which I read -- and my interest went steadily downhill. Someone gave me a Salvatore novel for Xmas -- not a D&D one -- so I figured I'd give it a shot. Maybe writing a book of his own, not bound by that infamous formulaic publisher's mentality, would prove to be a refreshing change. Nope. Still so formulaic that I correctly predicted the end of the first chapter, and I only skimmed it. *Sigh*
Where's all the good adult fantasy fiction?
Read Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen. Incredibly complex, amazing magic system using "warrens"...this 10-set series (9 out) has it all. It's immersive though, each book 800-1000 pages.
Salvatore is a fiction hitman for hire. "Want me to drone endlessly on the repressed heroic drow who fights his very nature for a thousand books and creates an endless supply of tabletop clones and conversations about how much more awesome he is than any player character ever? No Prob!" CHA-CHING! "What's that Lucas? Kill CHewbacca? Done!" CHA-CHING!One of the more disgraceful examples of fan behaviour I've seen are the STAR WARS fans who sent Salvatore death threats for killing Chewie, despite it being the editors' decision, not his, and it being reasonably well-known that his brother had died whilst writing the book. Seriously not cool.
Well I cerctainly never death threatened anyone over a furry fictional character. My point was only to illustrate the fact that Salvatore writes the things people hate him for because they pay him, and he likes money like any of us. I likened him to a fiction assassin as the point of he writes alot of his never ending stuff because they pay him to. FWIW.
If I recall from an interview he was not told until after the deal was done he would be killing off chewi. It was more along the lines of "We want ya to write a SW book...oh and by the way..kill off the furry guy"
Kinda funny in another way Drizzt was never meant to be the main character of the icewind dale stuff. Wulfgar was, they wanted to give wulfgar a side kick and said how bout one of them black elves. So they had him rework it a few times. Now this is what I recall from an interview about 95 or 98 or there bouts
Now you can like or hate his stuff, but when ya work with someone else IP and they say oh "plop in a orc/human nation no ones ever heard of before, put it in the north" then ya do, even if it's dumb
Kinda funny in another way Drizzt was never meant to be the main character of the icewind dale stuff. Wulfgar was, they wanted to give wulfgar a side kick and said how bout one of them black elves. So they had him rework it a few times.
Actually, Mary Kirchoff told Salvatore "We need to get rid this character and replace him with another. And we need you to come up with a replacement character RIGHT NOW."
So Salvatore improvised right then and there. "A drow ranger."
And Kirchoff accepted it.
And yes, Salvatore intended for Drizzt to be Wulfgar's sidekick, but as he started writing, he realized that Drizzt was taking over the book.
well he was an interesting character , and maybe would have stayed that way but lack of growth and just being over written has left him lesser for it
That's pretty much my opinion too.
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I just started Steven Erikson's Guardians of the Moon a few nights ago, and said to myself, "Boy, this reminds me of Glen Cook's Black Company stories."
Both authors get a big thumbs up from me, as well.
As for the above comment about Salvatore being able to deliver the goods on time and with few edits needed --
I recall Robert Silverberg saying something about how some older science fiction writers were upset with a then-young him (and maybe Harlan Ellison as well?) for cranking out too many, in their opinions, soul-less stories and flooding the market. But, as with the Bob named in the title of this thread, the editors knew they could give him a cover illustration on Monday and have a story to go with it on Wednesday. Morning. With no coffee cup ring on the first page.
I heard a successful reporter say the same thing. He had achieved greatness not because he was a great writer, but because he got his copy in on time.
And I heard Sean Reynolds say that he'd seen submissions from professionals that were very late AND very embarrassing to read and/or look at.
Don't you know editors get tired of begging fan favorite authors for copy when there is letter perfect, spell checked, ready to copy and paste works from lesser known authors in their inbox?
Oh, did I mention Glen Cook and Steven Erikson? Wonderful authors. Check them out.
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That's what I said. Drizzt is work for hire; WotC owns him. If Salvatore didn't want to write Drizzt anymore, he could have simply said no and let some other author write those Drizzt books he doesn't want to write. I don't blame him for ultimately saying yes and cashing the check (a fact I am now stating for the second time in as many posts), but in no way was he out of options if he didn't want to continue with Drizzt. Which is what the person I was responding to said he was.
You REALLY NEED to read the short story "The Fantasy Writer's Assistant" by Jeffrey Ford!
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And I heard Sean Reynolds say that he'd seen submissions from professionals that were very late AND very embarrassing to read and/or look at.
I guess I should clarify that this was post-TSR, pre-Paizo. I think it was when he was putting together one of his first books. Maybe the one where the proceeds went to charity? Kathryn Rusch had just done an editorial in F&SF about how to get a manuscript rejected, and there was a discussion on his website message boards about professionalism in submissions. So I didn't hear him say it. I read it. Sorry. I don't want to start any trouble. It wasn't Monte Cook's latest submission.