I used to like all kinds of D&D novels when I was in grade school. Weis and Hickman still have a nostalgiac place in my gamer's heart, but I've become completely apathetic about every other D&D novelist, if I wasn't already. I thought the first Drizzt trilogy was great when I read it, then came the twelve dozen others -- only half a dozen of which I read -- and my interest went steadily downhill. Someone gave me a Salvatore novel for Xmas -- not a D&D one -- so I figured I'd give it a shot. Maybe writing a book of his own, not bound by that infamous formulaic publisher's mentality, would prove to be a refreshing change. Nope. Still so formulaic that I correctly predicted the end of the first chapter, and I only skimmed it. *Sigh*
Where's all the good adult fantasy fiction?
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Here's a good start: http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/community/arts/books/needAFewSuggestio nsOfGoodFantasyAuthorsLikeGRRM
And I'll second the Brust recommendation.
I've only read the first Dragonlance series, and one of Salvatore's series, and they were both ok. Paul Kidd's book were also very entertaining, for a light, breezy read, but usually I avoid this stuff like the plague, it's just too dumbed down.
I used to like all kinds of D&D novels when I was in grade school.
[..]
Where's all the good adult fantasy fiction?
As the saying goes, "The golden age of science fiction is twelve." (Presumably that applies to fantasy as well...)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, 2011 Top 32
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I'm with the OP: books and stories I read when I was young have not aged well. I've stopped re-reading books I read when I was a kid after I read Pier Anthony's newest Incarnation book. Sweet Boccob, but that was terrible! How does a writer become less talented as they age? Is that normal? And Salvatore's Drizzt stuff just makes me feel tired now. Ditto for much of the D&D fiction I read when I was younger. I've avoided re-reading the Dragonlance Trilogy because I'm afraid it too will have faded with time. On the bright side, I was able to significantly pare down my paperback collection after this revelation.
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I've avoided re-reading the Dragonlance Trilogy because I'm afraid it too will have faded with time.
Me too. I reread the Crystal Shard about a year or so ago and had to put it down when Bruener started eating giant brains. I tried reading some of his "Demon Stuff" and it was pretty bland. I am just going to have to not reread anything because I want my old favorites to be remembered as deserving to be old favorites.
I've avoided re-reading the Dragonlance Trilogy because I'm afraid it too will have faded with time.
good idea. when i read these as a kid i thought they were the greatest thing ever. i recently reread them and now i wonder how they ever got published.
I disagree. I was 28 when I read the first 6 Drizzt books, not a decade ago, and I found them to be fun to read, though not brilliant works of literature. I disliked the next 2 1/2 Drizzt books, as I felt the series was getting stretched too thin. And I couldn't read The Crystal Shard a second time - not because I matured THAT much in the few years in between, but because it just wasn't good enough to warrant a second reading.
And it was only a couple of years ago that I read the Dragonlance Chronicles for the third time.
And I only read the first Incarnations of Immortality book, because I heard that the series got worse and worse after that.
I read both Classic Sci-Fi and D&D Novels when I was younger, I remember reading Lieber and Harry Harrison alongside the Driz'zt novels.
Now I'm full back into reading the classics, and some I hadn't read when I was younger, I just picked up Burrough's John Carter stuff @ B&N for cheap. I have been scouring the used bookstores for classic sci-fi/sword & sorcery stuff.
While a couple years ago I tried to re-read the first Icewind Dale stuff, coudn't do it...put it down on the second chapter...
Now, both Pulp & D&D Fantasy novels are formulaic, but there's just something endearing about the old pulp stuff...
I used to like all kinds of D&D novels when I was in grade school. Weis and Hickman still have a nostalgiac place in my gamer's heart, but I've become completely apathetic about every other D&D novelist, if I wasn't already. I thought the first Drizzt trilogy was great when I read it, then came the twelve dozen others -- only half a dozen of which I read -- and my interest went steadily downhill.[...]
Where's all the good adult fantasy fiction?
As opposed to the fantasy nonfiction? But yeah. Good fantasy is so hard to find. It depends on what you consider adult. I thought Dragonlance was one of the best fantasy series I ever read. I was 14 when I started them (I think I said 13 on the DL thread, but I checked the wiki for the release date, I had to be 14). I read the Drizzt origin series (I think Legacy and Sojourn were two of the titles in it, so whatever series that was) and thought it was absolute crap. I was in my 30s.
So I'm sure age had something to do with it, although I recently re-skimmed one of the DL books and thought it wasn't that bad. It wasn't like I was listening to someone play D&D, which was the feeling I got from the Drizzt books.
Worst game fiction I ever read: The Pool of Radiance. It put me completely off game-based fiction for years.
Tempting reads that I think you should be warned off of:
The Dragon Prince series by Melanie Rawn. Decent at first, but after a while, you kind of get the feeling that the author's real point is to match up her characters with their dream dates.
Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth books, starting with Wizard's First Rule. The plot starts out as a ripoff of Star Wars and turns into torture porn and right-wing propaganda by book 2.
Tad Williams's series that starts with The Dragonbone Chair. Or as I call it, the severe-head-trauma book, because every other chapter ends with the main character losing consciousness.
The Wheel of Time series. Although it kind of epitomizes the teen-based genre, if you're sick of Drizzt, you'll get sick of these people pretty fast, and they're in no hurry to go anywhere.
A lot of people liked the George RR Martin series Song of Ice and Fire. I thought it was decently written and surprisingly complex, but I didn't like it as much as most people did, because there wasn't a single likable character in the book. You might like it better than I did.
Stuff I did like:
Guy Gavriel Kay wrote a few standalone books, like Tigana, which were pretty good. He also has a two-book series that's based on the Byzantine Empire, called The Sarantine Mosaic; book one is called Sailing to Sarantium. I would steer clear of his trilogy The Fionavar Tapestry. He hadn't really found his legs as a writer yet.
Neil Gaiman's American Gods and Anansi Boys were fun, but not terribly complex.
Exception to the teen-preference rule: The Chronicles (and 2nd Chronicles) of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever. I read it as a teen; I think it was the first fantasy series I'd read. I read it again as an adult and I read entirely new themes into it that I never saw before. Warning about that series, it's about redemption, and the main character starts out pretty contemptible. And it's a slow mover from start to finish. Definitely not for everyone. It's a psychological story.
I used to like all kinds of D&D novels when I was in grade school. Weis and Hickman still have a nostalgiac place in my gamer's heart, but I've become completely apathetic about every other D&D novelist, if I wasn't already. I thought the first Drizzt trilogy was great when I read it, then came the twelve dozen others -- only half a dozen of which I read -- and my interest went steadily downhill. Someone gave me a Salvatore novel for Xmas -- not a D&D one -- so I figured I'd give it a shot. Maybe writing a book of his own, not bound by that infamous formulaic publisher's mentality, would prove to be a refreshing change. Nope. Still so formulaic that I correctly predicted the end of the first chapter, and I only skimmed it. *Sigh*
Salvatore is essentially a YA writer. Great as a teenager, with some good ideas, but not particularly challenging or original. The first nine or so Drizzt books remain decent as popcorn reads (and I maintain THE CRYSTAL SHARD would make a decent medium-budget movie if they did it properly), but they're not books to change the world or anything. Everything from PASSAGE TO DAWN onwards can be dismissed as hack work written purely for the money.
Where's all the good adult fantasy fiction?
If you want good, adult fantasy fiction you do not go looking for it in the D&D section of the bookshop ;)
Good Adult Fantasy Writers:
George R.R. Martin
R. Scott Bakker
Steven Erikson
Joe Abercrombie
Chris Wooding
Paul Kearney
China Mieville
Steph Swainston
Patrick Rothfuss
Scott Lynch
Brandon Sanderson
Matt Stover
JV Jones
KJ Parker
David Gemmell
Terry Pratchett
Richard Morgan
Neil Gaiman
Jack Vance
Writers to Avoid Like the Plague
Terry Goodkind
Robert Newcombe
David Keck
David Bilsborough
David Eddings (once you are past the age of 12 or so)
Worst game fiction I ever read: The Pool of Radiance. It put me completely off game-based fiction for years.
i agree. somehow i finished that piece of junk. :-)
Tad Williams's series that starts with The Dragonbone Chair. Or as I call it, the severe-head-trauma book, because every other chapter ends with the main character losing consciousness.
have to disagree, for now. i'm halfway through book 2, and still enjoying it.
Guy Gavriel Kay is a wordsmith.
I would add Dave Duncan's 'King's Blades' series to the mix.
Lois McMaster Bujold's 'The Curse of Chalion' is excellent also, as well as her 'Paladin of Souls'.
I think Patrick Rothfuss' 'Name of the Wind' is the best fantasy to come out in years.
I see what Joe Abercrombie was trying to do, but the ending of the trilogy felt forced and painfully contrived.
For some past classics, check out the old Swords Against Darkness series, specifically the stories in them by Ramsey Campbell, Richard L. Tierney, and David Drake. Robert E. Howard's Conan stories are essential. Also, Tanith Lee's 'Cyrion' is a staple for me.
I have to disagree with Christopher: I found The Song of Ice and Fire series to be a great exploration of many different character types - some repugnant, some confused, some assured in their heroism. The thing I really enjoyed about the series is that the story is told from many different viewpoints (including those of the "villians").
Great topic! I will have to return to this thread once I'm finished with this d*&#n dissertation and I can return to reading for enjoyment rather than for work.
So I still read and enjoy a lot of science fiction and fantasy. Does this make me immature? Or young at heart? :D
There is good fantasy fiction for adults, it's just that very little of it have to do with games. (The only good game novels I know of are The Brothers' War of M:tG and Weis/Hickman stuff. Even so I'm afraid to reread them for fear of shattering my nostalgia.)
All my life, I've had this compulsion to finish books I start. Once I start a book, it's hard for me to just put it back on the shelf no matter how bad it is. A few years ago a cousin gave me The Wheel of Time and this pair of other books for Xmas. I still love the WoT -- different strokes, eh Chris? -- but the other pair of books were just horrible. It was about a spineless real world woman being summoned to a fantasy realm through a mirror and instantly falling in love with her moronic summoner. I read through every sentence of those two books telling myself "There's got to be an explanation for this love-at-first-sight crap, if I just keep reading. Maybe they already know each other but have amnesia, or maybe they're reincarnated soul mates or something." But no: I finally read through all that drivel and it was just as painful as the beginning. That was the last time I read an entire story just because I began it.
I hate stories that hinge on love at first sight. So when I got through the first chapter of Wizard's First Rule, I threw it out in disgust.
Wow, that felt good! Thanks all.
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All my life, I've had this compulsion to finish books I start. Once I start a book, it's hard for me to just put it back on the shelf no matter how bad it is. A few years ago a cousin gave me The Wheel of Time and this pair of other books for Xmas. I still love the WoT -- different strokes, eh Chris? -- but the other pair of books were just horrible. It was about a spineless real world woman being summoned to a fantasy realm through a mirror and instantly falling in love with her moronic summoner. I read through every sentence of those two books telling myself "There's got to be an explanation for this love-at-first-sight crap, if I just keep reading. Maybe they already know each other but have amnesia, or maybe they're reincarnated soul mates or something." But no: I finally read through all that drivel and it was just as painful as the beginning. That was the last time I read an entire story just because I began it.
I hate stories that hinge on love at first sight. So when I got through the first chapter of Wizard's First Rule, I threw it out in disgust.
Wow, that felt good! Thanks all.
Heh. I've read those two books. I really really liked them as a teenager, but haven't revisited them. I'm curious to see how they held up for me. I think what I liked most about them was the role of the king, and his subterfuge.
It was about a spineless real world woman being summoned to a fantasy realm through a mirror and instantly falling in love with her moronic summoner. I read through every sentence of those two books telling myself "There's got to be an explanation for this love-at-first-sight crap, if I just keep reading. Maybe they already know each other but have amnesia, or maybe they're reincarnated soul mates or something." But no: I finally read through all that drivel and it was just as painful as the beginning. That was the last time I read an entire story just because I began it.
Was that MORDANT'S NEED by Stephen Donaldson? That was an oddball series.
I'm not a fan of Donaldson's fantasy. THOMAS COVENANT I disliked a lot, and MORDANT'S NEED never really took off for me. His SF GAP series was much, much better though.
It was about a spineless real world woman being summoned to a fantasy realm through a mirror and instantly falling in love with her moronic summoner. I read through every sentence of those two books telling myself "There's got to be an explanation for this love-at-first-sight crap, if I just keep reading. Maybe they already know each other but have amnesia, or maybe they're reincarnated soul mates or something." But no: I finally read through all that drivel and it was just as painful as the beginning. That was the last time I read an entire story just because I began it.Was that MORDANT'S NEED by Stephen Donaldson? That was an oddball series.
I'm not a fan of Donaldson's fantasy. THOMAS COVENANT I disliked a lot, and MORDANT'S NEED never really took off for me. His SF GAP series was much, much better though.
Yep, The Mirror of Her Dreams and A Man Rides Through.
I liked the Thomas Covenant books, but the Gap series is actually my favorite of his.
I haven't reread any of them in a long time though.
I hate stories that hinge on love at first sight. So when I got through the first chapter of Wizard's First Rule, I threw it out in disgust.Man, you dodged one hell of a bullet.
well at lest it was better then the tv show
well the mosith or however ya spelled it looked and acted even more like Domanatrixes and carried around red dildos the angal or however ya spell it. It really did look like a red dildo.
Also the story is only vaguely the same. Book is leaps and bounds better, so what does that tell ya
This is a bit out of left field, but both the Kushiel's Series by Jacqueline Carey and the Coldfire Trilogies were good reads that didn't pull punches when it came to adult themes or intellectual presentation. This may be just me, be these are great.
Here's links if you wanna look it over. Both trilogies I've loaned several times and had to buy again (that good).
Kushiel's Dart - Book One (starts a little slow)
Black Sun Rising - Book One (interesting opening)
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looked and acted even more like Domanatrixes
....
Also the story is only vaguely the same
If the TV series lacks the evil pacifists and Rahl's self-righteous and hypocritical Objectivist lecturing and rape, rape, and a side order of rape it actually sounds worth checking out!
*is shallow, admittedly
You might like it then, but I for one thought the book was a better story. Not saying much really, but it was better. Still I never had a desire to pick up any of his other books
And I myself still like Salvatore, maybe not the FR stuff now days but I did enjoy the highway man
To be honest, I haven't read a book in a while. Besides, maybe, a gaming manual if you can even count that.
After reading partway through the comics adaptation of "Guards! Guards!" I really want to read Prachett.
The last fantasy novel I tried to read was "The Spearwielder Trilogy" Or something like that by Salvatore in high school. At first, I was like "Sweet, a main character who uses a spear instead of a sword or other generic dueling weapon! Maybe this will be cool.
Ahahahaha, oh how stupid I was.
Brian Jacques is a good author though. I thought I nostalgia'd Redwall into being so awesome... Now I'm surprised it's marketed as a kids book!
Although he might drag a bit, the guy's got a lot of talent for characterization.
To be honest, I haven't read a book in a while. Besides, maybe, a gaming manual if you can even count that.
After reading partway through the comics adaptation of "Guards! Guards!" I really want to read Prachett.
The last fantasy novel I tried to read was "The Spearwielder Trilogy" Or something like that by Salvatore in high school. At first, I was like "Sweet, a main character who uses a spear instead of a sword or other generic dueling weapon! Maybe this will be cool.
Ahahahaha, oh how stupid I was.
Brian Jacques is a good author though. I thought I nostalgia'd Redwall into being so awesome... Now I'm surprised it's marketed as a kids book!
Although he might drag a bit, the guy's got a lot of talent for characterization.
Prachett is great! :D There were recently two movie adaptations for the Color of Magic and the Light Fantastic.
This is a bit out of left field, but both the Kushiel's Series by Jacqueline Carey and the Coldfire Trilogies were good reads that didn't pull punches when it came to adult themes or intellectual presentation. This may be just me, be these are great.
Here's links if you wanna look it over. Both trilogies I've loaned several times and had to buy again (that good).
Kushiel's Dart - Book One (starts a little slow)
I particularly recommend the first review you'll see on that book on the Amazon page. ;)
Black Sun Rising - Book One (interesting opening)
I really liked the concept of that world, but the opening put me off reading it for over a year. The second and third books are better than the first.
Agreed. I'm sick of Drizzt especially and only slightly less of Salvatore. I want three-dimensional characters with frailties and weaknesses.
For truly good fan fiction, I'd recommend to you the Vlad Taltos series from Steven Brust.
Absolutely! Good stuff!
GRU
So I still read and enjoy a lot of science fiction and fantasy. Does this make me immature? Or young at heart? :D
So do you prefer sci-fi/fantasy that's written recently, or stuff that would have been around when you were twelve? :-)
I'd say my two favourite sci-fi/fantasy writers are Larry Niven and Michael Moorcock. Yet somehow, I don't really care for their new stuff; I don't know if it's because their recent writing is objectively worse, or because I'm looking at the old stuff through a haze of nostalgia...
I often find myself to prefer books with some elements which could be used into a fantasy/sci-fi setting, rather than actual fantasy/sci-fi books.
Or elements which could be used in a game rather than books about the game.
The same thing goes with movies or TV series.
This is a bit out of left field, but both the Kushiel's Series by Jacqueline Carey and the Coldfire Trilogies were good reads that didn't pull punches when it came to adult themes or intellectual presentation. This may be just me, be these are great.
Here's links if you wanna look it over. Both trilogies I've loaned several times and had to buy again (that good).
Kushiel's Dart - Book One (starts a little slow)
I particularly recommend the first review you'll see on that book on the Amazon page. ;)
I really liked the concept of that world, but the opening put me off reading it for over a year. The second and third books are better than the first.
Black Sun Rising - Book One (interesting opening)
Marvelous sir, and agreed on both parts. I've drawn from both these books constantly in my campaign. I've read through the Imri books as well, but not Naamah's Kiss. I was sorely disappointed by the Banewreaker series. I haven't read else by Celia S Friedman, but I would if there was more non-space stuff like BSR.
Marvelous sir, and agreed on both parts. I've drawn from both these books constantly in my campaign. I've read through the Imri books as well, but not Naamah's Kiss. I was sorely disappointed by the Banewreaker series. I haven't read else by Celia S Friedman, but I would if there was more non-space stuff like BSR.
Thanks. I haven't read the Imri books, and don't really plan to, since I thought the ending of the original trilogy was adequate and don't really feel any desire to revisit the world. I did enjoy the Banewreaker series, but don't know if I'd recommend it. Not for everyone.
I hate stories that hinge on love at first sight. So when I got through the first chapter of Wizard's First Rule, I threw it out in disgust.
Wow, that felt good! Thanks all.
Except... Wizard's First Rule doesn't HAVE any love at first sight. She's fricken gorgeous, and there's a measure of attraction and a superficial level of affection Richard has for Kahlan that gradually grows, and eventually breaks into the ice queen.
(personally I find their relationship in the show less plausible)
I'm probably thinking of a different book then. It's been a while, and the brain blocks out painful memories.
I'm probably thinking of a different book then. It's been a while, and the brain blocks out painful memories.I hate stories that hinge on love at first sight. So when I got through the first chapter of Wizard's First Rule, I threw it out in disgust.
Wow, that felt good! Thanks all.
Except... Wizard's First Rule doesn't HAVE any love at first sight. She's fricken gorgeous, and there's a measure of attraction and a superficial level of affection Richard has for Kahlan that gradually grows, and eventually breaks into the ice queen.
(personally I find their relationship in the show less plausible)
No, you're thinking of the right book. It's not "love at first sight" for the characters, but the writer is hitting you over the head with his desire to make YOU love the character at first sight, and is just one of the many reasons that someone should take Terry Goodkind's typewriter away.
I have to disagree with Christopher: I found The Song of Ice and Fire series to be a great exploration of many different character types - some repugnant, some confused, some assured in their heroism. The thing I really enjoyed about the series is that the story is told from many different viewpoints (including those of the "villians").
Yeah, I realize I'm in the minority among fantasy readers in that one. I thought there were just too many POV characters. He could have trimmed it down to 3 or 4 per book. As it was, I feel that nearly every chapter progressed to a moment just before a climax, and then cut away to another character. So every chapter was a cliffhanger ending. But when you came back to the character you just left, the cliffhanger was over, and the POV narration would usually tell you what had happened, but it was in the past for them, and the sense of immediacy was gone. So, after three books of that, I felt it was just kind of a cheap way to get out of writing an action scene.
Now, couple that with the fact that I didn't like any of the POV characters and I felt like I was being TOLD to like Jon Snow and Arya, so they were kind of Mary-Sue-ish.
There were parts of the books I did like, and as I said, they were among the most complex fantasy novels I'd read in a while, and the world was much more believable than... well, the world in nearly ANY fantasy series I could think of. I think the author did an admirable job of maintaining characters across multiple plots and subplots. So, I have a lot of respect for what the writer did accomplish.
I put it at the end of my avoid list with the caveat that most people liked it. So I guess I could have put it under my recommend list, with the opposite caveat: that most people love it, but I didn't so much.
I hate stories that hinge on love at first sight. So when I got through the first chapter of Wizard's First Rule, I threw it out in disgust.Man, you dodged one hell of a bullet.
I stuck with that damned series for six books. I knew it was terrible. I read the first three when I was an adolescent and they sort of worked as transgressive rage porn. (Not in the titillating sense, but in getting a kind of sadistic thrill out of seeing the bad guys tortured. Not really proud of it, but I was a teenager.)
I came back in my early 20s. At first I was interested because all his manifest excesses aside, Goodkind seemed to be operating in a system where the magic had neat rules (not the actual rules named as such in the book, but sort of a sense that it worked like physics) that might be fun to see unravel. Then there were a couple of good ideas that kept me going. I really liked the idea of temple hidden away from the world that held all the knowledge of the past wizards...even if how they got there was so mind-bogglingly stupid.
I think I bought several of the books at once, so after I ate that turd sandwich I sat down for another. It was awful even by the standards of the series so far, so I gave him a mulligan on it and read the next one. Where Richard makes a statue. Also Goodkind killed one of the few characters I still liked, who seemed to be a fairly decent non-psychopath. Must have been why he was killed.
It wasn't just those things. The books were repulsive long before that. But that on top of everything else was way more than enough. Goodkind was never especially good, but he got further and further off the rails the longer the series went.
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Firstly, concerning the OP:
Salvatore has been a rollercoaster ride for me. I went from hating him, to finding his work halfway decent, to outright hating him again.
After reading his books (and believe you me I read them all), I felt that Drizzt was pathetic in all regards, and the stories that were being told didn't really have any substance.
I felt that Salvatore's writing consistently did away with most of the really truly interesting characters introduced, in that they were either killed off far too quickly before they could develop as characters, or became obscure background support-types; think The Hunters Blade trilogy, and the several characters that appear - and subsequently disappear - for no good reason, or die with some small amount of ignominiously pointless fanfare - "Hi! I'm the villain, and I slice people in half! Bam! Who else wants to be sliced in half? You? Ok!"
After a while I took my buddy's advice and borrowed his copies of The Orc, Pirate, and Ghost King. Orc King was more of the same to me, but Pirate King was like a sparkling brilliant ray of joyous hope and wonder, then I read Ghost King and all of the joy and wonder died.
Of course, despite my passionate distaste for all of his Drizzt-related books, I am actually quite fond of a few of his other series and novels. The Cleric Quintet was a good read all around; I found the Crimson Shadow series highly entertaining; and I'm a stark supporter of most everyone I know reading the Demonwars and First King sagas.
And now, a bit of everything else:
Worst game fiction I ever read: The Pool of Radiance.
Mother of God. It is to my great shame that I admit I just finished that very book. I sort of kept going, reading chapter after chapter for a laugh more than anything else. I might have been able to take it seriously if it weren't for the author handing out +5 gear to what I believe were level 1-3 characters. And I'm not too big on melodrama or repetitive descriptions about monsters frying under the might of a multi-fireball/lightning bolt mega-death-attack. But I digress.
As for a Song of Ice and Fire. I liked it, but not enough to read past A Game of Thrones, and though I pride myself on not being a prude: I thought that Martin's use of sex in the books was a bit over the top and could have done with less description and more innuendo.
The novel of Planescape: Torment was frankly terrible. It bore almost no resemblance to the actual game and wasn't even good fiction to begin with.
As for a Song of Ice and Fire. I liked it, but not enough to read past A Game of Thrones, and though I pride myself on not being a prude: I thought that Martin's use of sex in the books was a bit over the top and could have done with less description and more innuendo.
Really? Too much sex? Wow, um, I bought them all for my mother (she was reading the Wheel of Time series, and I thought she might like these too), and she *loved* them. The same woman who once told me when a nude scene on cable came on - "That lady has no shirt on. She's not a lady at all!"
Maybe I need to reread these and then call my therapist....
I too, love the Song of Ice and Fire, and would thourougly deter someone from reading Terry Goodkind (I got to the start of book 5 and though "my god, can Richard be any dumber. Infinite cosmic power and he's still a noob")
Lately I've been reading the Tales of the Otori trillogy, a fuedal Japanese story focused on a ninja-samurai. I find it very good.
Also started reading The Drezden Files. The first book was decent, but a little predictable. I hope to start the next one soon.
I also don't discount YA liturature. Its got more fluff, but its fun fluff.
See for me its not "The older I get, the less I like Salvatore" its more of "the more he writes, the less I like Salvatore". And I didnt think he was that awesome to begin with.
Oh and PS: Drop the dark elf already or at the very least write about his kid or something. Jeesh.