A friend said that in 3.5 there were penalties using a reach weapon against an adjacent foe. And he thinks that it still exists in PF. Can someone point me to the page in the Pathfinder Core book where this rule is. I don't ever remember seeing it.
Yeah the penalty is ya can't do it.
"Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe."
It's in the equipment section under weapon special traits.
The main penalty is that you cannot use a reach weapon against an adjacent foe.
Not without a specific feat BTW: Short Hafted (CW I believe), then there was no penalty but you had to choose at the start of your turn if you used the weapon as reach or adjacent, not both. IIRC.
edit: half-ninja'd, dammit. >:|
The main penalty is that you cannot use a reach weapon against an adjacent foe.
Not without a specific feat BTW: Short Hafted (CW I believe), then there was no penalty but you had to choose at the start of your turn if you used the weapon as reach or adjacent, not both. IIRC.
edit: half-ninja'd, dammit. >:|
I is in your past changing your future! Since I'm in the past I always go first too!
And Short Haft is a feat from D&D 3.5, not Pathfinder. The best bet for switching between the two ranges is to get a dorn-dergar, a Dwarven chain weapon.
CW = Complete Warrior. So yes, 3.5 feat.
edit: where do I find this dorn-dergar? sounds cool.
many thanks
my 2 cp= a character should be able to attack an adjacent target with the butt end of a reach polearm, as if it were an oversized (-2 att) club (d6 dmg), as long as a DM judges that there is actually enough space around the character for him to do this. This especially could be an issue indoors and underground, where a cieling could get in the way of wielding a polearm in this manner.
This type of attack could only be smashing feet and whacking shins, but could also include attacking points higher up on a target's body, like the stomach.
Truthfully a good smack from the middle of the shaft hurts... a lot.
my 2 cp= a character should be able to attack an adjacent target with the butt end of a reach polearm, as if it were an oversized (-2 att) club (d6 dmg), as long as a DM judges that there is actually enough space around the character for him to do this. This especially could be an issue indoors and underground, where a cieling could get in the way of wielding a polearm in this manner.
This type of attack could only be smashing feet and whacking shins, but could also include attacking points higher up on a target's body, like the stomach.
And threaten adjacent squares as well as reach ones? You could as well bring back the 3.5 spiked chain...
You would need plenty of space to maneuver a reach polearm around in this manner. It wouldn't be so tricky outdoors, but in a dungeon it would only be possible if there were an extra 5' of empty space, opposite the target, for the rest of the weapon to occupy. So, no it is not quite as good as the Spiked Chain.
Thinking about it, it sounds reasonable. But too complicated for my taste.
I prefer the improvised weapon approach: -4 to hit when used adjacent and once you have switched reach you keep it until your next round. Use short hafted and you avoid the -4.
Or there's the bladed scarf or the dwarven thingy...
I'm not opposed to that approach, but realistically the extra 5' of weapon has to go somewhere. Thats why in my view, an empty square opposite the target is necessary (at least indoors and undergrounf).
...the extra 5' of weapon has to go somewhere.
Up? Most ceilings are at least 10' high, there should be no problem.
I'm not opposed to that approach, but realistically the extra 5' of weapon has to go somewhere. Thats why in my view, an empty square opposite the target is necessary (at least indoors and undergrounf).
That's why I don't recommend the butt of the weapon. The mid shaft is plenty good enough to deal 1d6 damage without trouble especially if you are holding it two handed.
I play a polearm master and he gets pole fighting at 2nd level.
What is cool is that since shortening his grip on the polearm is an immediate action the polearm master gets to threaten at 5' and 10'.
There is an alternate rule somewhere in 3.5 to allow a player to make an attack with the haft as a quarterstaff/club of it's size (1d6+1.5 Str) at a -4 nonproficiency penalty.
Short Haft allows you to attack with the head of the weapon rather than the haft, and at -2 rather than -4.
There was also another feat that let you change a reach weapon to a non reach weapon as a swift action, but unlike short haft, if you do that, you no longer threaten at reach.
Then there is the spear 'shove' feat, which was thematically good, but mechanically terrible. Basically, you could shove somebody away from you with your spear. Make it into a decent bull rush attack with the chance of knocking them prone, and maybe they won't want to come near you anymore.
Personally, I would houserule that anybody can "Pommel" with their melee weapon for 1d3 dmg light, 1d4 damage 1h, or 1d6 dmg 2h Bludgeoning (unless the weapon had no haft, pommel, or other such thing, such as a katar {punching dagger}). Someone proficient in a weapon aught to know how to actually use it as a weapon, which means attacking using all parts of it.*
D&D gives you a big 5' SQ area to work in. This is literally huge when it comes to combat. Even with one guy in every square, that's still a loose skirmish formation. A shield wall or phalanx type formation would have 4 men in one 5' SQ. In those tight situations, you only have one place to stick your spear, and only one place for the butt to fit behind you. Particularly if you're using pikes. But in such a formation, if a guy gets past your spear point, he still has another 1-4 points to deal with, depending on the length of the spears. Because of the 5' Square, you lose the advantage of fighting in close order, but you do have plenty of space to move your crap around, unlike in those situations, where even using swinging a longsword might become difficult in the press. Point being: just like the halfling with the dagger is able to attack the guy, despite not really having the arm-length to do it, because of the notion of moving around in the 5' square, Somebody with a reach poll-arm should be able to withdraw it to attack an adjacent opponent.
*I've seen some fancy sword work by reenactors that do things like trip with the free hand, bash the skull with the pommel, and then finish with a half-sworded downward thrust on the prone opponent.
