20th LVL Playtest (5 of 6 new classes)

[Flynn Alfe]

So I've become a Pathfinder convert and been running the most recent adventure path. So when the new classes came up for beta test I made sure to point them out to my players. After some discussion I came up with a plan to take part in the play test. Whenever we start a new game, to work out the kinks I place the players against each other in a mock combat to learn the mechanics and blow off some steam.

Ok so how to build on the grand melee theme. Let them build a lvl 20 beta test character and give them a week or two to tweak it...yea! Five players plus myself meant we could test drive them all. My players are a mix of long time veterans and quickly becoming veteran players with decades of play behind some of them. I knew this should be fun.

Originally I planned on 3 rounds in an open arena (crystal caste grid map), 4 ramps, 4 pillars at 20'and platform 10' high in the center. The gods have plucked you from your cushy 20th level retirement and are forcing you fight for there viewing and drinking pleasure.

Some rules. Base stats 6+2d6 re-rolling 1-2's, max hp's and all standard rules from PF core book. Cash and items from the NPC table in PF core. This put everyone on fairly level playing field gear and stat wise. Each round was to start with a random 1-6 prep rounds to allow those who needed it to make preparations.

Well it started going bad from the start hehe of course. The inquisitor showed up late and didn't have a PC finished. Round one had already started so we just figured he could jump in during round 2. Oh what we didn't know.

Let's go back and see what the PC's brought to the table.

Cavalier was tweak to be a full on lancer and dual wielder and his initial reaction about the class was it appeared weak. He changed his mind after parsing the math on his charge attacks. He came in supremely confident and kinda had me worried as I hadn't looked over his class too well.

Alchemist, hey thats me the GM I wanted to see what this one could do. With bombs for offense and plenty of healing I felt good about my chances. Quick sidenote Eyebite is really a poor choice after the level its available, my only real complaint during creation.

Witch another class I hadn't looked too deeply at but I knew was in good hands and the witches player had smirk that showed he had some tricks up his sleeve.

Oracle's player had an idea what he wanted to do with this class before I even announced this competition. Earth Glide and Crystal Sight made him drool and the rest of us worry.

Summoner was one of two PC's that had messed around with these classes at 5 lvl in a short one shot 2wks before and knew the potential of this class and had his plan pinned down.

Six rounds of prep saw alot of defenses prepped by the caster types. Flights,stoneskins,summons,greater invi's,hastes....etc. While the caviler muttered something about a challenge to the Summoner across the arena.

Oracle drops into the earthen floor along with some earth elemental's, summoners elemental's and the Witches fox changed into a copper dragon follow.

Alchemist initially assaults the Eidelon but decides to back off when it gets too close.

Before Cavalier can even make a move the witch hits him with a successful maze. (ouch)

I originally thought 5-6 rounds per round of fight for these bad boys to duke it out. It took 7 rounds just feel each other out and unleash our first wave abilities. And due to standard table debate and new class ability interpretations (a few of which we've since gone back and realized we made a few mistakes.) our 3 bouts boiled down to 1 bout that lasted the better part of a game day.

After round 7 or so things started to change storm of vengeance overhead,dimensional anchor and a plethora of greater dispels brought the Caviler back into the fight and left me the Alchemist exposed and grounded, nearly out of bombs and everyone still in fighting shape.

The cavalier finally loose he charges the witch who is busy healing his "familiar" who is hiding from the Oracle in Sanctuary. Two actions later the witch lies dead due to the massive damage output the Cav can achieve with his magical adamantine lance.

The Summoner and the oracle have up until now been at a near stalemate, the summoner melds with his eidelon as his summoned creatures continue there assault on the Oracle.

The summoner Dominates Monster on the Cavalier....another failed save. With my permanent true strike potion gone and down to 5 bombs another two passes from the cavalier finish me off. On his second pass he gets off of his horse and draws a magical rapier and scimitar there there bonus damage and his improved crits it was an ugly end. (not as bad as his lance damage which was in the hundreds but still impressive)

With the oracle still in the ground and summoner melded things ground down, Our allotted play time was running short and we hadn't even finished one bout.

If I were to extrapolate the fight It think once the Oracles meld ability ended the dominated cavi along with the eidolon probably could have finished him if his remaining spells didn't finish either of them off.

Thats right even though the magical types stole the show with flashy showy effects and summoned armies only the cavalier put anyone down in the end.

So many little decisions, mistakes, saving throws effected the outcome. A second or even a third bout could have ended very differently. I also realized as GM I'd have a hell of a time challenging a party of these classes at this level.

Oracle: Earth Glide ability made the fight for this version of the class and made him a final contender. The Oracle and the Summoner seemed to be matched well but I time would have been the Oracles downfall. (we ran out of it.)

Witch: A solid class that didn't shine at first but put in a solid showing and with some minor adjustments could have stayed in the fight.

Alchemist: I like this class but I don't think he's a solo fighter. Solid melee abilities to around mid level and steady attack with the bombs but after two greater dispels was left with empty bomb bags and a weak smile as the melee type tore him to pieces. I think this guy works best with a party for support.

Summoner: We all thought this guy was overpowered and put the beta changes from the forums in place. He still put on a heck of a show and stood his ground while controlling the fight at the end. (Note to self, kill summoner first don't try to fight his personal army)

Cavalier: What can I say I thought the player was just bluster and overconfidence before the fight but he proved me wrong with only about 4 rounds of actually being in the fight he finished off two of us and if not for the dominate maybe 3 of us. (fly is your friend...damn those dispels)

I gotta say when I first looked over the classes I wasn't so sure but after seeing the them in action at there peak I gotta say a pretty even fight until the cavalier finally got involved after the spell slingers depowered each other some. I just wish the inquisitor had the chance to join in I'm still not sure were his power level falls amongst the rest.

SOME PLAYER COMMENTS
Oracle
Well 1st off, on overall most classes seem very balanced on a whole with some abilities making classes a little more than others cavalier- and damage:Summoner and its pet: and Stone oracle and the earth glide...

Cavalier
The fact of the matter was, none wanted to take a chance on aggroing me, while i was dominated. I was still alive, and had actually just healed back up to full. Another point is i had the only kills of the day.

Summoner
I still think that a dominated foe is a defeated foe but thats just my two copper. (Cavalier/well unlike defeat, domination wears off.)

Everyone agreed that if they did it again they'd try a lower and work there way up to get to know there class better.

I had a reward in mind I was going to give the winner but after a whole day of crazy fighting and good sports all around I've decided to let an item of lesser value for each pc show up in a future loot in our AP game.

(Feel free to ask questions or tear apart my grammar my boys were playing dad is a jungle gym while I tryed to type this.)

[sputang]

Any chance of getting a look at these characters? I'm curious to see what an optimized witch and cavalier might look like.

[Yinben]

sputang wrote:

Any chance of getting a look at these characters? I'm curious to see what an optimized witch and cavalier might look like.

This is the Cav that was made for Primes' game test submitted above. Just listing what i have on him, if you want to know why i took something feel free to ask.

The Cav Lucky (Horse)
Str - 20 +5 Str - 25 +7
Dex - 19 +4 Dex - 19 +4
Con - 18 +4 Con - 15 +2
Int - 13+1 Int - 3
Wis - 12 +1 Wis - 12
Cha - 16 +3 Cha - 6

Hp's = 300 Hp's = 200
spd = 30 spd = 90
AC = 28 (35) AC = 34

Armor & Gear Armor & Gear

+5 Mithral Full Plate of Fortitude (25%) Chainmail Barding
+4 Large Steel Shield Bridle of Freedom of Move
Cloak of Resist +3
10 Potions of Vision Horseshoes of Quickness
20 Potions of Cure Serious

Weapons
Adamantine Lance of Fireburst +2
Flaming Axiomatic Scimitar +3
Frost Holy Rapier +3

Feats Feats
Spirited Charge (Mounted Mastery) Fleet x2
Mounted Combat Intimidating Prowess
Ride By Attack Endurance
Trample Run
Dodge Armor Prof (L)(M)(H)
Wind Stance
Lightning Stance
Two Weapon fighting -improved-Greater-
Two Weapon Defense
Improved Crit Lance/Rapier/Scimitar
Vital Strike/ Improved Vital/ Great Vital

Oaths
Justice
Protector (only took cuz i couldnt stack)
Purity
Vengence With Human/Goblin as favored enemies.

Order of the Sword
Mounted MAstery
Knights Challenge - Makes D6 a D8 so 7D8 on target of challenge / hit

Dual Weilding had 7 Attacks with crits from 15-20
Lance crit set off a fire burst of 5d10 because of the cav crit stacks

I only Crit once with lance during the fight and it was against the Witch; hit for 426 dmg

I hope you enjoy, i could have done a few things differently, like the horseshoes if i were do to it over again, i really liked the movement, on an open battlefield the shoes of quickness are the way to go, in an arena the shoes of the zephyr are the way to go imho. Bon Apetite

[wraithstrike]

Was anyone on teams or was it every man for himself?

Why was the witch healing the familiar? That should have been done after the fight.

In any event if you do this again a round by round play would be nice.

It may take a while to type up if you do it though.

[ntbreed]

It was a free for all, 6rounds of prep (randomize via a d6) Witch was going on the defensive from the Oracle *my character*.

As posted by Flynn, the first several rounds where the "toe in the water" my prep was earth glide summon few defensive elementals to defend against the Summoner, spell resist, stone skin...

my first round of the accual combat was quickened earthquake *as per the final revelation* and storm of vengance. and tryin to rid my self of the earth elemetals the summoner brought to the table. Once the elementals where gone, I had planned to go after the eidolon, but to my dismay the witch's familiar, now a copper dragon was diggin its way to my character. So I changed my focus from the eidolon to the the familiar. Had it on the ropes and was about to Head after the Witch, when again the summoner brings in more earth elemetals. Now with earth glide in mind, the copper dragon retreating, earth elementals advancing, again I changed my focus. In hind sight, if I would have remained focused on one rather than bouncing around. Things could have gone a little faster.

I had looked over most of the classes, accually assisted in the build of the cavalier. And out of all of them the only one I was truly worried about was the summoner. Because he could bring earth elementals that could get to me.

Now mind you that damage from the cavalier is intimidating yes, but my over all plan was to let him deal with most of the others while i sat back casted large aoe spells like earthquake, and storm of vengance, and possibly elemental swarm *casting time on that one made it rather inconsievable* Once the other where dead my plan was to use destruction on the cavaliers lance, and steal breaker skin on his melee weapons when he attacked. Stone skin to soak the damage up. Rightious Might, Divine Favor, Divine Power to melee like a fighter with a falchion that was spell storing *inflict serious* and flaming burst.

The summoner's dominate monster, unfortunatly messed that up and I was trying to remain in character *didnt know he was dominated as I was earth gliding* using my earth glide to coax him toward the summoner and his eidolon. Now if and when they got near, if an attack would not have happened I would of asked to make a spell check and dispelled the dominate. But we had been at it for roughly 6hours+ between arguments, and verifying spells and abilities.

One of the arguments was accually mine about the use of an attack of opportunty. Being if a bite attack, leading to a swallow *grapple attack* could be done on an attack of opportunity, as free actions can only be done during your turn. But it was a pointless argument because of the size increase from rightious might, so I *we* wasted more time resolving the argument that didnt happen anyways.

It was interesting battle. Fairly evenly matched over all, I see some minor adjustments to a Stone Oracle, Cavaliers damage calculations, and the summoners Eidolon. But I have yet to experience the Inquistor, as that was one of the ones i didnt look over.

Also I know the PC that played the witch, would have added a few spells to make their touch attacks ranged *spectral hand* would have impacted the session greatly.

[Chris Kenney]

ntbreed wrote:

Also I know the PC that played the witch, would have added a few spells to make their touch attacks ranged *spectral hand* would have impacted the session greatly.

If you're referring to the Hexes, this doesn't work. Hexes are Supernatural, not Spell-like, and aren't subject to Spectral Hand.

[kanislatrans13]

I'm the guy behind the witch(Glenda,the kinda good witch.)I'lllpost the full build tonite if the kids will give me a break.

couple of notes.
1) I should have traded the bead of force for a broom.Not being mobile when most of your special abilities are touch attacks sux.My bad

2)I also should have used greater invisability(scroll) on the familiar during my prep rounds. once the rest of the combatants saw the dragon, it made me a target. the witch works best from the shadows.

3)As for healing the familiar,I was kind of in a bind. Oracle had a silence spell on me keeping me from most of my high level spells(including the greater dispell) I was figuring on getting the familiar back in shape and casting my touch spells through her. Cavalier, unfortunately, was faster.

will post more if time permits.

over all I had a blast and am planing on running a witch in the regular game just to see how she plays at lower levels.