Doctor Who: The End of Time

[Vic Wertz]

Coming soon!

UK (BBC 1/HD):
Part 1: 25 Dec
Part 2: 1 Jan
DVD/Blu-Ray: 11 Jan

US (BBC America/HD):
Part 1: 26 Dec
Part 2: 2 Jan
DVD/Blu-Ray: 2 Feb

Canada (SPACE):
Parts 1 & 2: 2 Jan
DVD/Blu-Ray: 2 Feb

Australia (ABC):
TBA ("Early 2010")

(Don't forget to use spoiler tags where appropriate!)

[David Fryer]

So looking forward to it.

[Mac Boyce]

I requested the nights off to watch it. :D

[Watcher]

Already got the DVR set! But I'll be glued to the TV anyway.

[Nevynxxx]

My post from the waters of Mars thread, since it makes more sense here...

Seen two trailers for the Christmas special now....Ohhh that baby's gunna be *good*.

Also you may like this. although it contains borderline spoilers, so be warned. I wasn't.

Spoiler:

So far we know the master comes back, and he looks *very* cool, all white hair and madness, and thanks to the article above, that he kills this incarnation.

Also some ood are whittering about the "end of time itself" chew on that....

[Charles Evans 25]

Okay, just seen Part I of the Christmas special. That was daft, although they did pull out something at the end which hints that Part II next week, whilst daft, may be worth watching...

[DM Wellard]

Not to spoil anything but seeing a one time companion ..if only from the 60's movies.... back in the Tardis brought a lump to my throat.Oh and an ex James Bond was just an added bonus..

PS Tennant for Bond once people get fed up of Daniel Craig..it's time he was Scottish again

[David Fryer]

DM Wellard wrote:

PS Tennant for Bond once people get fed up of Daniel Craig..it's time he was Scottish again

+1

[Aubrey the Malformed]

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Okay, just seen Part I of the Christmas special. That was daft, although they did pull out something at the end which hints that Part II next week, whilst daft, may be worth watching...

I haven't watched that much of the modern Dr Who (i.e. under Russell T Davies) and most of what I have seen has generally been silly. This was fairly watchable and they have great actors in it, and it has a more epic feel and greater continuity to it than before. But it was still silly.

[David Fryer]

Much like Camolot. :)

[Erik Mona]

I thought the episode was pretty stupid, truth be told, and while I thank Russel T. Davies for bring back the show far better than probably anyone else could have, I'm rather pleased that he is leaving the show and have high expectations for Steven Moffatt.

Also, Part 2 looks like it will be considerably more interesting (and less, well, stupid) than Part 1.

So there's that.

[Lyingbastard]

There were some decidedly narmish moments there, that's for sure.

[flash_cxxi]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Coming soon!

UK (BBC 1/HD):
Part 1: 25 Dec
Part 2: 1 Jan
DVD/Blu-Ray: 11 Jan

US (BBC America/HD):
Part 1: 26 Dec
Part 2: 2 Jan
DVD/Blu-Ray: 2 Feb

Canada (SPACE):
Parts 1 & 2: 2 Jan
DVD/Blu-Ray: 2 Feb

Australia (ABC):
TBA ("Early 2010")

(Don't forget to use spoiler tags where appropriate!)

Seriosly... WTF is up with the Air Dates?

We got Waters of Mars long before the US, but you get The End of Time way before us???

[B_Wiklund]

Yep pretty dumb. You think that with a character like the Master they could write him as something more than just a cackling git. The Obama reference... really? Trying to be hopeful for Part II but its pretty hard right now. Just hope Moffatt doesn't inherit too much of RTDs baggage.

[Loztastic]

i'm seeing SM doing a fairly major reboot/reset

[Watcher]

Erik Mona wrote:

I thought the episode was pretty stupid, truth be told, and while I thank Russel T. Davies for bring back the show far better than probably anyone else could have, I'm rather pleased that he is leaving the show and have high expectations for Steven Moffatt.

Also, Part 2 looks like it will be considerably more interesting (and less, well, stupid) than Part 1.

So there's that.

+1

It's not just the obvious stupid stuff either, there's lots of little stupidity as well.

Waters of Mars was an excellent lead up to this episode, with an excellent ending.

So when we next see the doctor, he's wearing a cowboy hat and a hawiian lei, blathering about how he's been off fooling around because he doesn't want to confront what might be happening. Wouldn't it have been better to just have the Ood remark that he should have hurried, and the Doctor reply, "I wasn't in a hurry to confront the inevitable." Or perhaps something snappier.. but less silly.

That would have honored the dramatic tension that they'd crafted in the previous episode. After all, a woman shot herself, in spite of him, to preserve her granddaughter's timeline, as well as that of all of humanity. Great stuff! Utterly torpedoed.

Looking forward to Mr. Moffatt.

[Shadowborn]

I have to echo a lot of the sentiments here. I've really enjoyed the resurrection of Doctor Who and have become quite the fan of David Tennant's Doctor. However, over and over again during this first part I kept asking aloud "Really? That's how you're going to work this? Really?"

It felt like another writer who had nothing to do with the show had been brought in at the last minute to do the script for this thing. Oh, and that writer was an American and worked as a campaign officer for Obama.

The ending reminded me entirely too much of this to inspire any dread or concern.

All in all, I was severely disappointed.

[Watcher]

Actually, I took the references to Obama to be somewhat sarcastic, not supportive.

In any case, it just wasn't necessary to the story. It was like a goofy idea during a brainstorming session that should have gotten edited out in order to keep the story stronger.

[Matthew Morris]

And my frakking DVR didn't record it. Guess I'll have to hope they rebrodcast it saturday.

That said, from what I've read:

Spoiler:

The time lords are back? Really? Four seasons of the Doctor being the last of them and 'poof' everything is back? Really?

[Pat Payne]

B_Wiklund wrote:

Yep pretty dumb. You think that with a character like the Master they could write him as something more than just a cackling git.

IMO, this was one of the better Masters in recent memory. He was dangerous and a threat. I saw him as something of a "Heath Ledger Joker" sort, someone who was a primal force of chaos, as opposed to the more suave and mercurial version we last saw. The early parts of the episode scared the living daylights out of me...

Spoiler:

Then there was the whole "I'm gonna turn the entire Human race into me" angle, and yeah, that scheme was pretty lame, though it had some good one-liners and set-piece shots.

B_Wiklund wrote:

The Obama reference... really? Trying to be hopeful for Part II but its pretty hard right now. Just hope Moffatt doesn't inherit too much of RTDs baggage.

That Obama reference I found to be annoying. First we get Winters, an obvious Expy of Bush, get offed and they don't even bother to reset it along with everything else in "Last of the Time Lords", now we get Obama on the cusp of single-handedly fixing the world's economy? Anvilicious political statement much?

I am still stoked for Episode 2, for if nothing else we get the Time Lords again... I wonder if this means Gallifrey is going to be permanently returned, or if they're back for a moment and the Doc is going to have to find some way to return them to oblivion to keep the fabric of space-time whole, or some such...

[David Fryer]

I appear to be in the minority here, but I liked it. One reason is that because we knew it was a two parter I didn't judge it as harshly as I would have a stand alone episode. I did find the Obama references to be a little annoying, but you have to take the good with the bad. The thing I really liked is that

Spoiler:

it appears that the Master is really just a pawn in the game being manipulated into recreating the Time Lords, rather thn controlling the game like he thinks.

[B_Wiklund]

Pat Payne wrote:

IMO, this was one of the better Masters in recent memory. He was dangerous and a threat. I saw him as something of a "Heath Ledger Joker" sort, someone who was a primal force of chaos, as opposed to the more suave and mercurial version we last saw. The early parts of the episode scared the living daylights out of me...

Not to be pining for the 'good old days' but I'll take Peter Pratt's Master as the most 'dangerous' feeling version (Deadly Assassin). Vicious like a cornered wild animal and ugly. I got the sense of what John Simm was trying to do and with better scripting and direction it could've been authentically creepy but it just felt silly most of the time (what with the jumping, eating gobs of turkey, and lightning bolts). Still it could've been worse, it could've been Eric Roberts... <shudder>

Pat Payne wrote:

That Obama reference I found to be annoying. First we get Winters, an obvious Expy of Bush, get offed and they don't even bother to reset it along with everything else in "Last of the Time Lords", now we get Obama on the cusp of single-handedly fixing the world's economy? Anvilicious political statement much?

Sometimes I really wonder what goes through RTDs head when he goes out of his way to offers up this kind of cringe-inducing dreck. Well regardless I am still for some strange reason keen to see the next part too.

[Vic Wertz]

flash_cxxi wrote:

Seriosly... WTF is up with the Air Dates?

We got Waters of Mars long before the US, but you get The End of Time way before us???

BBC America delayed Waters of Mars so that they could run it plus The End of Time as a heavily promoted three-week event over consecutive weekends. (It seems to have been a good plan, too, since Waters of Mars was the highest-rated prime time BBC America show ever.)

They've already announced that they'll be running Series 5 in the spring, which I hope means "with a week of the BBC broadcast." (Much better than when we had Sci Fi (now SyFy) waiting several months to air new episodes.)

(I just wish I had BBC America in HD....)

[Matthew Morris]

Vic Wertz wrote:

(I just wish I had BBC America in HD....)

You and me both Vic.

And I wish they'd run Sarah Jane as well. Oh well, can't wait for the new Torchwood season.

Spoiler:

And I hope Jack comes back, finds the hub rebuilt, with Gwen running the operation, liasing with the police through Andy, Rhys running transport and administration, and maybe even Micky involved, with Martha liasing with Unit. Essentially 'Welcome back Jack, we're tired of you running away and are doing bloody well on our own. Now do you want to help or not?'

End of time spoiler

Spoiler:

"The Master race." So the Master's new plan is to destroy humanity for the sake of a bad pun? That's not just joker crazy, that's 'The Laughing Fish' crazy. He's supposed to be the Doctor's equal (better?) He should have figured out a way to hotwire a TARDIS through Torchwood's garbage bin, and be out there changing 'fixed points' to make reality over in his image. Or just waited for the Doctor to come back and beat him, again. What happened to the Master in Logopolis? Or the Doomsday Weapon? Or even in the Five Doctors? Even crazy Master in 'The sound of Drums' was planning to make a new Gallifrey.

[Ross Byers]

I added a spoiler.

[Nevynxxx]

David Fryer wrote:

I appear to be in the minority here, but I liked it. One reason is that because we knew it was a two parter I didn't judge it as harshly as I would have a stand alone episode. I did find the Obama references to be a little annoying, but you have to take the good with the bad. The thing I really liked is that ** spoiler omitted **

I agree, I loved this.

I do wonder if the Obama thing is touching a lot of US nerves that it wouldn't have if it had been a caricature of anyone else?

Also:

Spoiler:

Is the Master's madness, something put there by far sighted Time Lords? Is it actually not madness? Could it be that being told he was mad for so long, actually drove him to his type of psychosis? But best of all, is Earth destined to be Gallifray MkII???

[David Fryer]

Nevynxxx wrote:

David Fryer wrote:

I appear to be in the minority here, but I liked it. One reason is that because we knew it was a two parter I didn't judge it as harshly as I would have a stand alone episode. I did find the Obama references to be a little annoying, but you have to take the good with the bad. The thing I really liked is that ** spoiler omitted **

I agree, I loved this.

I do wonder if the Obama thing is touching a lot of US nerves that it wouldn't have if it had been a caricature of anyone else?

Also:

** spoiler omitted **

Actually the Obama thing didn't annoy me so much that it was a caricature as it is that he seems to be everywhere these days. I was surprised that Brits would be portrayed as being more excited about hearing from the U.S. president then they would from the Queen or the Prime Minister. I just didn't seem belivable to me.

[Nevynxxx]

David Fryer wrote:

Actually the Obama thing didn't annoy me so much that it was a caricature as it is that he seems to be everywhere these days. I was surprised that Brits would be portrayed as being more excited about hearing from the U.S. president then they would from the Queen or the Prime Minister. I just didn't seem belivable to me.

Sadly, that is proof you don't live in the UK.

Possibly it's that they all know how ineffective our actual government is, so any "this will end the worldwide recession" from them would be met with a huge, laugh. Where as the same from the US has some credibility.

Musings:

I do wonder where they are going with that though, the speech was emphasised far too much to be a throw away. What is his plan? and how does it interact with the Time Lord's?

[Loztastic]

Pat Payne wrote:

First we get Winters, an obvious Expy of Bush, get offed and they don't even bother to reset it along with everything else in "Last of the Time Lords",

Winters died before the Paradox engine was activated - and that was the moment the reset went back to

[Loztastic]

only 7 min to go, then we know!

*gets a bit exited

[Loztastic]

Nevynxxx wrote:

Possibly it's that they all know how ineffective our actual government is, so any "this will end the worldwide recession" from them would be met with a huge, laugh. Where as the same from the US has some credibility.

** spoiler omitted **

you have to remember that, in general, a HUGE distruct of government, not in the american "small government" way, but in a more small-scale "anyone who wants authority is probably an idiot" is a big part of the british character

oddly, when you think about it, that's a big part of doctor who itself - the HUGE distrust of authority and people in power, in a sceptical way, runs through the entire show.

So, ANY politician showing up, claiming to "end recession" would be met with laughter in the UK, but when you play that against Obama's early image of being Gandalf, Yoda AND superman all rolled into onem but you get a great comic image

i suppose its one of those things, that looks different if you take it seriously, or view it with a degree of irony

[Loztastic]

that

was

VERY

good!

and, i may not have been right on everything, but i was right about 1 thing!

[David Fryer]

Loztastic wrote:

only 7 min to go, then we know!

*gets a bit exited

You suck, you know that?

[Loztastic]

you get everything ELSE first!

give us this one!

[Uzzy]

That, I feel, was a worthy ending to Tennant's run as the Doctor and Davies' time as showrunner. Very good episode, and tied up many of the loose ends.

[DM Wellard]

And the big reveal about who Timothy Daltons Presidential Time Lord was caught me totally by surprise..

looking forward to the wider debate once our American cousins have seen it tomorrow

[Watcher]

I'm curious if the Timelords become part of the milleu again, or if they return just to wink out of existence again. Like a one-off..

If you feel like posting on that, please use spoiler tags of course!

[Loztastic]

time-lords:

keind of half way point - they are alive, but sealed in a time-lock. so, if they had an existing link to the outside world, they could try and come back. but, the events of the time-war have turned them a bit evil

and, because some people really, REALLY want to see it

the regeneration on youtube

[Charles Evans 25]

Loztastic wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

and, because some people really, REALLY want to see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQrd44v7Q6w

Umm your link does not work. I think your BBCodes are not right for these boards.

[Charles Evans 25]

DM Wellard wrote:

And the big reveal about who Timothy Daltons Presidential Time Lord was caught me totally by surprise..

looking forward to the wider debate once our American cousins have seen it tomorrow

The name on its own might not mean anything. We've had more than half a dozen King Edwards in the UK, don't forget, two Queen Elizabeths, and several King Georges.

[Charles Evans 25]

As to my view of the first Doctor Who episode to air in 2010, I wish that they'd trimmed that ending and given us more earlier on in the episode instead. I suppose Davies and/or Tennant wanted a long goodbye though...
But yay, now the man responsible for Blink and who made the phrase 'Hey, who turned out the lights?' spine-chilling is in charge, and we have a new Doctor!

[Matthew Morris]

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

As to my view of the first Doctor Who episode to air in 2010, I wish that they'd trimmed that ending and given us more earlier on in the episode instead. I suppose Davies and/or Tennant wanted a long goodbye though...

But yay, now the man responsible for Blink and who made the phrase 'Hey, who turned out the lights?' spine-chilling is in charge, and we have a new Doctor!

And if Wiki's any indication, the weeping angels will be back.

[Kthulhu]

The first 30 minutes or so was decent, at least compared with the typical RTD finale.

Spoiler:

But the last ~20 minutes...my god. The overly emotional, girly teen angst BS was just horrible. I literally yelled at my TV: "Just die already and turn into Matt Smith!"

[Aubrey the Malformed]

Frankly, the last 15 minutes seemed to be more about RTD and less about David Tennant or the story. And

Spoiler:

since when did regenerating blow up the Tardis?

I thought it was crud.

[Vic Wertz]

Aubrey the Malformed wrote:

Frankly, the last 15 minutes seemed to be more about RTD and less about David Tennant or the story.

I'll second that bit. Especially...

Minor Spoiler:

Captain Jack and "Allons-y" Alonso in the Mos Eisley Cantina. And especially if you've read RTD's "The Writer's Tale."

[Vic Wertz]

My biggest problem with The End of Time: The last few minutes of Waters of Mars built up to something interesting—something I was looking forward to seeing. The Doctor broke the rules, and it was implied he'd have to pay for it, and it would be the end of him.

But...

Spoiler:

That wasn't what happened. "The end of him" was, once again, the result of being the hero, not of breaking the rules. Indeed, not only did he *not* pay for breaking the rules, but he got to take a whirlwind ride where he appears to have broken the very same rule repeatedly, along with some new ones, before meeting his end.

In general, my opinion is that the last few specials as a whole gave me the sense that RTD really didn't have a lot of places to go with the character anymore. I loved what he did with Doctor Who while he had it, and David Tennant is by far my favorite Doctor, but I really do feel that it was time for both of them to go... and that actually maybe they should have gone a year earlier. (Especially if that would have meant a full season instead of a few specials for 2009.)

Bring on Karen Gillan and Steven Moffat!

(Oh, and I guess Matt Smith, too... but mainly Karen Gillan and Steven Moffat!)

[Nevynxxx]

Vic Wertz wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:

Not to mention that it turns out the people who were designated to enforce the rules, it turns out *all* (bar two) broke them, and turned worse than all the rest. So maybe he was justified.

Or maybe it was a thinly veiled way of making sure the spin-offs continue, and remind people how good RTD is...

I would like to know who the woman time Lord was. The Doctor's mother was my guess. Donner was the Mrs' guess, though not sure how that could ever possibly work....

[Loztastic]

that explosion:

I assume it was a combination of

1)His body expelling all that radiation. when he went from Chris Ecclestone (who i went to school with - seriously) to DT he mentioned needing to expel the vortex energy. you would assume the TARDIS was designed to absorb that. but possibly, a good old-style nuke, it might struggle with

2)Him holding the regeneration in so long - for all we know, the pressure built

and

3)The TARDIS set looks really tatty when filmed for HD transmition. and using low-lighting can only cover for so long. they needed to re-do it, so why not give him a reason to NEED to make changes

[Paul Watson]

Charles Evans 25 wrote:

Loztastic wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

and, because some people really, REALLY want to see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQrd44v7Q6w

Umm your link does not work. I think your BBCodes are not right for these boards.

He put them the wrong way round. If you cut and paste the link it works. Or click below.

the regeneration on youtube