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I just finished running a game, and the problem we ran into the most was getting the Large-sized Eidolon through small spaces. While I know there are spells like reduce person and dimension door, the player quickly ran out of those spells, and we didn't know how to solve the problem.
Personally, I think allowing the summoner to suppress the evolutions on their Eidolon would be okay.
Just some thoughts.
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There are squeezing rules, and as long as the hall is 5 feet wide, your Eidolon shouldn't have a problem getting through them (just very slowly).
Else it's no different to taking a tiger, or elephant animal companion. You've got to be prepared to deal with the consequences of a large sized creature.
... You've got to be prepared to deal with the consequences of a large sized creature.
Which is what most people fail to consider before complaining that the Large and Huge evolutions are too powerful.
I am failing to see the issue here. You made him large now you have to deal with it. Being large and huge size have massive drawl backs. not fitting places is something you'll have to deal with
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I am failing to see the issue here. You made him large now you have to deal with it. Being large and huge size have massive drawl backs. not fitting places is something you'll have to deal with
I don't feel that is fair to the player. Why should someone be punished for their decisions?
"NO! BAD PLAYER! NO BIGGIE FOR YOU!"
That's just mean. You don't punish the fighter for wielding a large sword, a wizard for casting powerful spells. Why should the Summoner suffer for having a Large Eidolon?
Also, while I am aware of squeezing rules, the problem comes when combat starts. Suddenly, the party is without their heavy hitter.
I am failing to see the issue here. You made him large now you have to deal with it. Being large and huge size have massive drawl backs. not fitting places is something you'll have to deal withI don't feel that is fair to the player. Why should someone be punished for their decisions?
"NO! BAD PLAYER! NO BIGGIE FOR YOU!"
That's just mean. You don't punish the fighter for wielding a large sword, a wizard for casting powerful spells. Why should the Summoner suffer for having a Large Eidolon?
Also, while I am aware of squeezing rules, the problem comes when combat starts. Suddenly, the party is without their heavy hitter.
because the size increases would otherwise be vastly under-priced for the bonuses they grant.
I've seen cleric builds that revolved arround making him a large beat stick. He can't d othat in small areas. Likewise, large animal companions you get at lvl 4. There is a reason they have an alternate ability score change that is much weaker.
I am failing to see the issue here. You made him large now you have to deal with it. Being large and huge size have massive drawl backs. not fitting places is something you'll have to deal withI don't feel that is fair to the player. Why should someone be punished for their decisions?
"NO! BAD PLAYER! NO BIGGIE FOR YOU!"
That's just mean. You don't punish the fighter for wielding a large sword, a wizard for casting powerful spells. Why should the Summoner suffer for having a Large Eidolon?
Also, while I am aware of squeezing rules, the problem comes when combat starts. Suddenly, the party is without their heavy hitter.
he is only stuck with a large Eidolon until he gains another level... then he can spend those points on something else and remove the large evolution
I am failing to see the issue here. You made him large now you have to deal with it. Being large and huge size have massive drawl backs. not fitting places is something you'll have to deal withI don't feel that is fair to the player. Why should someone be punished for their decisions?
"NO! BAD PLAYER! NO BIGGIE FOR YOU!"
That's just mean. You don't punish the fighter for wielding a large sword, a wizard for casting powerful spells. Why should the Summoner suffer for having a Large Eidolon?
Also, while I am aware of squeezing rules, the problem comes when combat starts. Suddenly, the party is without their heavy hitter.
It is part of the give and take for increasing the size of the eidolon. In open space the eidolon's increased size is a big boon. More strength, bigger damage die, harder to trip/grapple/bullrush. If you could suppress it, no one would NOT take the large and huge evolutions. And any option that is a guaranteed choice is not a well designed option one way or another.
I don't feel that is fair to the player. Why should someone be punished for their decisions?
Why did he Choose to make it that big? It was the players option to grow it that large. No one forced him, you make your choices and deal with em
I mean why is it fair to make a paladin loose his powers for killing that kid? Or the barbarian not able to gain new levels in that class because he became lawful? Why should a wizard player be punished because he "forgot" to prepare a spell that would be best right now? Why should a sorcerer be punished by being forced to select only a few spells?
The game, mush like life has choices, you make em and you deal with your choice.No one forced the large size, or the huge size, they come with drawl backs, big ones. If you want a pet that massive you gotta know you can't take rover with you everywhere
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I don't feel that is fair to the player. Why should someone be punished for their decisions?
This is an incredibly amazing statement. You win 1 internet.
Not at all, you do not have to take it, no one forces you and for the cost(damned cheap) you can expect nothing less. If you could shrink everyone would take it, you would be a fool not to.
Thats is the balance, you want a pet the size of a house you take he downside with it
If you want a pet that massive you gotta know you can't take rover with you everywhereEffectively making the class useless. Nice. You don't take away the fighter's armor, or the wizard's spells.
Again, I feel this response is just plain mean.
NOT making the class useless at all. For the same price of that evolution, your player could easily have invested in some more practical abilities. No one is FORCING the eidolon to become large. That was your player's CHOICE. He made a choice and he has to deal with the consequences of that choice.
He'll has to deal with it being large then. There is no flaw in having to deal with choices you make
Also, no where on the large size evolution does it state that the damage of natural attacks increases.
It says it in the natural attack evolution descriptions.
If you want a pet that massive you gotta know you can't take rover with you everywhereEffectively making the class useless. Nice. You don't take away the fighter's armor, or the wizard's spells.
Again, I feel this response is just plain mean.
Preposterous. The confined space is a relatively rare occurence. You might as well argue that the fighter should be allowed to wear his full plate and wield his big slashing weapon unhindered in deep water because after all, it's not fair to hamper him at all because of a choice he made.
The summoner makes a choice to give the eidolon large or huge size. Protesting that something beneficial might occasionally be disadvantageous is silly.
Every really, really good ability should have some sort of drawback.
If your PC chooses to spend his spells unwisely, there are consequences to that. Likewise, if you choose your class abilities (where applicable) poorly, there are consequences to that too.
If your 10th level wizard has chosen 1st level spells for his 2 freebies every level the game doesn't reset or alter to accomodate him.
In this instance, the Large and Huge evolutions are extremely cheap for what you get. In exchange for that however there IS a cost. That cost is maneuverability in tight spaces. This is especially true for the Huge Eidolons that will crop up from time to time. The solution is for the Player to be aware of the possible limitations and to prepare for those limitations.
I am a big big fan (no pun intended) of the Summoner and hope to get to play one soon.. but Large and Huge are just too good to be true, without some serious limitations.. and getting through a 5 foot door is one of those serious considerations a player has to take into account when he builds his Big E.
-S
Can't you just un-summon and then re-summon your eidolon? (like a paladin's mount, which you only summon when you get to the big boss room... :) )
You can only summon the eidolon once per day.
If you want a pet that massive you gotta know you can't take rover with you everywhereEffectively making the class useless. Nice. You don't take away the fighter's armor, or the wizard's spells.
Again, I feel this response is just plain mean.
Actually there are lots of examples in published adventures where one character's abilities are singled out. Ever been a rogue against something immune to sneak attack? There are fewer, but its still there. A two weapon fighter with a monster that has good dr you cant bypass? Or a wizard in an antimagic field. or even better, I recently ran carrion hill there is one adventure where you need to make acrobatics checks to not fall down on most of the map in one area because its slippery. The paladin with fullplate/heavy steel sheild and no dex, guess what, he fell down alot. It happens in published adventures, and in your own game, well if you dont like it that way, make the hallway wider...
Also, while I am aware of squeezing rules, the problem comes when combat starts. Suddenly, the party is without their heavy hitter.
So I am confused here. You are saying there were so many spaces the players had to go into that were so small that medium creatures had to squeeze that the large creature had to be shrunk for that the summoner ran out of spells?
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If you want a pet that massive you gotta know you can't take rover with you everywhereEffectively making the class useless. Nice. You don't take away the fighter's armor, or the wizard's spells.
Again, I feel this response is just plain mean.
The class isn't useless though. The summoner still has his Summoning SLA, his spells and probably a couple of weapons. As the GM you should warn your players that they'll be travelling through small-sized dungeons.
If your player chooses a ranger with Favoured Enemy (Magical Beasts), can he just change that willy nilly? Or is it up to the GM to accomodate that player's choice.
The PC doesn't need to shrink his eidolon willy nilly, just needs to be aware there will be times he can't drag his pet along with him. If he insists on it, then maybe you should increase the dungeon sizes.
Ultimately, a "shrink" ability undercosts the growth.
If you want a pet that massive you gotta know you can't take rover with you everywhereEffectively making the class useless. Nice. You don't take away the fighter's armor, or the wizard's spells.
Again, I feel this response is just plain mean.
The class isn't useless though. The summoner still has his Summoning SLA, his spells and probably a couple of weapons. As the GM you should warn your players that they'll be travelling through small-sized dungeons.
If your player chooses a ranger with Favoured Enemy (Magical Beasts), can he just change that willy nilly? Or is it up to the GM to accomodate that player's choice.
The PC doesn't need to shrink his eidolon willy nilly, just needs to be aware there will be times he can't drag his pet along with him. If he insists on it, then maybe you should increase the dungeon sizes.
Ultimately, a "shrink" ability undercosts the growth.
+1 to this. Making your Eidolon anything bigger than medium is a risk. I, personally, think we're seeing a trend where DMs are letting players make decisions that SHOULD have game altering affects, but instead work around it to make it work. An example is any DM ever that has let a PC pick a monstrous race (IE anthropomorphic bat) and then not tailored a campaign to react to the fact that that PC is just plain weird! If you want Cloverfield to follow you around, you need to realize that he will not fit in the city sewers and thus be rendered useless. Of course, this may be offset by the inclusion of the transmorgification spell that we've yet to see.
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What I see happening, because, it did, is the players say "forget this, were are not going in there,"
I actually don't know why it is 'too powerful' to have an Eidolon shrink and grow at will. If they don't spend their points on the large/huge size, they spent them on something equally powerful. If you feel that this isn't true, that the points wouldn't be spent on something as equally powerful, then the growing/shrinking thing isn't the issue, it is that the Large-size is too cheap.
How many points do you think the Large/Huge size should be actually worth?
Large (and larger) need to mean what they mean, and not just "your physical stats are better." If you have some ability that lets you resize your Eidolon when its size is a problem, there needs to be a cost of some kind, either in evolution points, a feat, or something along those lines.
What I see happening, because, it did, is the players say "forget this, were are not going in there,"
I actually don't know why it is 'too powerful' to have an Eidolon shrink and grow at will. If they don't spend their points on the large/huge size, they spent them on something equally powerful. If you feel that this isn't true, that the points wouldn't be spent on something as equally powerful, then the growing/shrinking thing isn't the issue, it is that the Large-size is too cheap.
How many points do you think the Large/Huge size should be actually worth?
It's not to much different than taking a large sized race or my druid taking an animal that grows to large after level 7. If I can't get in the room, or if my animal buddy can't get it, that is a side affect of having the benefit of being large. Almost every benefit in D&D has a potential drawback. Flying animals don't normally fight as well as land based ones, but they don't have to worry about difficult terrain. I am sure there are other things to add in also. Arcane casters can use any spell they want.
If your players do that, they should be prepared to deal with the consequences of failing a quest.I would warn them up front about making it to big. That is what I plan to do with my player anyway. If they choose to do it anyway its on them. They have been warned. I know in your campaign its to late. Since you as the DM did not know I would allow him a chance to do it over, but from this point on....
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I've had a moment to collect my thoughts. Here is the point I am trying to make:
By making evolutions based on a point system, the developers at Paizo had told us that something worth, let us say, 3 points, is worth anything else that is also worth 3 points.
Large is worth 3 points.
Purchasing Rend and Claws is worth a total of 3 points.
Paizo is telling us that these are equal in power, because each is worth 3 points.
Now, let us assume that the entrance to a dungeon is much to small for the large Eidolon to enter normally. While the party must overcome this problem, possibly by using up daily resources (maybe not).
Meanwhile, the party with an Eidolon that is not Large cruises through the dungeon, no problems.
Now, you are trying to tell me that is the trade off. "Well, they are large, so, there are going to be some problems,"
What happens if there are no problems?
A dungeon that has no small doorways suddenly has no 'trade-off'. No problems are encountered, no (potential) resources are consumed.
You say that the ability to move through a dungeon without headaches is too powerful and that players must suffer through the 'consequences', but in the big-door dungeon, by what you've said, the dungeon itself has made the Eidolon more powerful.
Man your getting a hella lot for 3 points, better damage, good stat boosts, there has to be a drawl back. Druids have this very same issue, your option is to not make him large, seems to work fine
I've had a moment to collect my thoughts. Here is the point I am trying to make:
By making evolutions based on a point system, the developers at Paizo had told us that something worth, let us say, 3 points, is worth anything else that is also worth 3 points.
Large is worth 3 points.
Purchasing Rend and Claws is worth a total of 3 points.
Paizo is telling us that these are equal in power, because each is worth 3 points.
Now, let us assume that the entrance to a dungeon is much to small for the large Eidolon to enter normally. While the party must overcome this problem, possibly by using up daily resources (maybe not).
Meanwhile, the party with an Eidolon that is not Large cruises through the dungeon, no problems.
Now, you are trying to tell me that is the trade off. "Well, they are large, so, there are going to be some problems,"
What happens if there are no problems?
A dungeon that has no small doorways suddenly has no 'trade-off'. No problems are encountered, no (potential) resources are consumed.
You say that the ability to move through a dungeon without headaches is too powerful and that players must suffer through the 'consequences', but in the big-door dungeon, by what you've said, the dungeon itself has made the Eidolon more powerful.
There is a spell that allows people to shrink by one size category. I would have the summoner use that spell, but I don't know if its on his spell list.
What we(or at least me) is/are saying is simply that every action has a possible consequence as outlined in my previous post. Should my druid be able to shrink his tiger just because I could have chosen a smaller companion?
I know an Eidolon is not an animal companion, but the point in both instances is that choices were made, and they have to be dealt with by the player.
I really am playing a druid by the way, and I did not think about my decision until later on.
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Man your getting a hella lot for 3 points, better damage, good stat boosts, there has to be a drawl back. Druids have this very same issue, your option is to not make him large, seems to work fine
And what I'm saying is that in a dungeon with no small doors, there is no drawback. At all.
Meaning it can't be a drawback, because it is situation based. It is not a drawback, it is just irritating.
Also, wraithstrike, the Eidolon is the whole purpose behind the Summoner class, where as the animal companion isn't what makes the druid what it is; it is not it's power base.
Again the druid has been dealing with this issue for what 9 years now. Large races must deal with this, should they gain a shrink ability?
This is not a flaw. No one forces you to make Spot the size of a car. If you do expect issues. Just like the druid's companion. It will not come into play every time but it might often and you'll have to deal with it.
Also, wraithstrike, the Eidolon is the whole purpose behind the Summoner class, where as the animal companion isn't what makes the druid what it is; it is not it's power base.The 3.5 animal companion was not to far from where the Eidolon is now in the hands of an optimized player. I know pathfinder is not 3.5, but the game did not change that much on a core level. The Eidolon being the core does not mean it should get special privileges.
The situation excuse does not fly because the entire game is based on situations. Your rogue did not choose the right skill, you prepped the wrong spell, you took an cold iron weapon, over a silver one, and so on. I had to end that run-on sentence.
You took the path to the BBEG, and somehow missed all the XP you could have gained to get a level, too bad. You chose the wrong barbarian power, or at least did not picked one that would help right now.No other class gets to negate bad(less advantagious) decisions is what I am saying. Too bad does not mean I don't see your point, but it does mean you have to deal with the circumstances as a whole. If you want the benefits of being large you have to deal with the drawbacks. If the Eidolon could change size I don't see why everything else can't do it.
Since it is the core ability that just means the player should be more careful to make sure it works. A sorcerer can't just change spells out because he took mend instead of a more useful spell. Well he can, but its not an immediate thing. At the minimum he has to wait for the next level. A summoner can still be useful without the Eidolon. A sorcerer without spells is basically a commoner.
Invest into a ring of reduce person. It's fairly cheap. Either that, or keep a lifetime supply of potions of reduce person for those instances where they are being "punished."
And yes, sometimes fighters lose their armor, wizards lose their spellbooks, and divine casters lose divine favor.
Man your getting a hella lot for 3 points, better damage, good stat boosts, there has to be a drawl back. Druids have this very same issue, your option is to not make him large, seems to work fineIn my very honest experience, 'drawbacks' like this are always, always resolved in one of two ways:
1) They're simply ignored. Everywhere the large party member or companion goes mysteriously has doors ten feet wide, or at least wide enough that the big guy can get through it no problem. Ocassionally there might be exclusion, but generally the GM just doesn't want to deal with the headache and handwaves the issue.
2) They're simply ignored. The big guy is flatly excluded from all encounters because they all take place on the other side of a passageway he can't get through. You might be allowed to use him one time in twenty or so, but the GM is just plain hoping you forget about it because he doesn't want to deal with the headache.
So either Large and Huge are no drawback at all or they are completely crippling, entirely at the whim of the GM. That's a problem.
I have never seen a GM that lenient*. Many of us also run pre-mades, and don't have time to alter them, and we wont especially if we told you about certain things up front. I am the GM and Mr.Optimizer for my group, and I am sure others of us are also. If a player says "what about this feat/etc?" I won't say don't pick it, but I will give pros and cons. If they choose to take it they have to deal with it. I will also add if its a really bad choice I will try to get them not to take it, but once again in the end its their character.
*I am sure they exist, but I don't think they are the norm.
PS: I am not complaining about your post. I just used it to bring up other points.
I have never seen a GM that lenient*. Many of us also run pre-mades, and don't have time to alter them, and we wont especially if we told you about certain things up front. I am the GM and Mr.Optimizer for my group, and I am sure others of us are also. If a player says "what about this feat/etc?" I won't say don't pick it, but I will give pros and cons. If they choose to take it they have to deal with it. I will also add if its a really bad choice I will try to get them not to take it, but once again in the end its their character.
*I am sure they exist, but I don't think they are the norm.
PS: I am not complaining about your post. I just used it to bring up other points.
Yeah. Just to clarify, it's more of the second than the first. And that's usually been with GMs running their own adventures, to boot. They had a chance to customize every encounter to say 'yes, no, yes' and simply chose the easy way out. Which was generally just to punish the player by excluding them (or, admittedly more often, their 'broken' living class feature) by just plain making sure it would never come into play.
I've never seen a GM go to the effort of attempting to balance a large creature's use.
EDIT: I think, on a little further reflection, this is probably an extension of the "Mount Problem" where feats devoted to getting on a horse tend to feel wasted when the horse can't be used.
A lot is going to depend on the specifics of Transmogrify. Without that, I'd even go so far as to say we can't really give these two evolutions a fair test, not knowing how often an Eidolon's evolutions can be swapped as a practical matter.
Jason did say Transmogrify would take a long time to use, so at best I am assuming it will be 10 minutes, but it may take hours, which makes it useful, but if you are on a time limit it won't do any good most likely.
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Here is the problem with comparing the Animal Companion that is large to the Eidolon.
I can replace it!
I just dismiss it, and replace it with another one that is smaller in 24 hours.
I feel like the whole having to deal with the large size isn't debilitating, just annoying and a headache. After all of this, all I'm convinced of is that this problem should have been dealt with with animal companions years ago.
You know what is funny about this whole thread? I am in favor of small sized Eidolons, and wished they didn't get such a shaft.
Here is the problem with comparing the Animal Companion that is large to the Eidolon.
I can replace it!
I just dismiss it, and replace it with another one that is smaller in 24 hours.
I feel like the whole having to deal with the large size isn't debilitating, just annoying and a headache. After all of this, all I'm convinced of is that this problem should have been dealt with with animal companions years ago.
You know what is funny about this whole thread? I am in favor of small sized Eidolons, and wished they didn't get such a shaft.
You can replace* it(animal companion), but maybe not in time to complete the dungeon, and from an RP stand point most DM's will not like the idea of you just sending Fluffy off.
*I think its a 24 hour wait, and that is probably what the transmorgify spell will do.
I don't see why any creature should have not have to follow the same rules as every other creature, but I don't think I can convince you otherwise.
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Here's a question: Were you the GM, or one of the players? Because if you're a GM and complaining about this, it's a non-issue unless you're running a preconstructed campaign, since when it's your own campaign you don't have to make your players crawl through dungeons and other such tight spaces.
As a player, like everyone else said, there are many options available to you. A wand of Reduce Person is only 750gp, only 15gp per use. After level 6 when the expected gold per player is 16,000; I'd say that is very fair. Any smart player could think of a way around some of these minor inconveniences. To have the rules (or a GM bending the rules) babysit the player through the game is to do him a disservice, and discourages inventive solutions to problems.
Here's a question: Were you the GM, or one of the players? Because if you're a GM and complaining about this, it's a non-issue unless you're running a preconstructed campaign, since when it's your own campaign you don't have to make your players crawl through dungeons and other such tight spaces.
As a player, like everyone else said, there are many options available to you. A wand of Reduce Person is only 750gp, only 15gp per use. After level 6 when the expected gold per player is 16,000; I'd say that is very fair. Any smart player could think of a way around some of these minor inconveniences. To have the rules (or a GM bending the rules) babysit the player through the game is to do him a disservice, and discourages inventive solutions to problems.
Goblin-Hunter is a DM. A wand of reduced person won't work on a Eidolon since it's an outsider.
I also think he wanted a solution, other than a resize, and was looking for feedback.Edited
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Share Spells (Ex): The summoner may cast a spell
with a target of “You” on his eidolon (as a spell with
a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner
may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells
normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type
(outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the
summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the
eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if
they function like spells.
Now, I'm not entirely sure about how spell trigger/spell completion items work with that, but scrolls are technically cast when you use them. Either way, scrolls are only 10 gold more per use, which is still within reason. If you can prove me wrong on that point, in that scrolls and/or wands work with the share spells ability, then I will gladly take my response back. I will also thank you, because I've honestly never known one way or the other if that's how scrolls/wands work in conjunction with Share Spells
EDIT: Also, He was looking for a solution including running out of spells to reduce him.
EDIT: EDIT: Most DM's take a theme and go with it, like fighting in small spaces (unless you're running a precon, like stated before), and (unless you started at 6th level) they should have seen a pattern by the point that they made him large, and if he finds it to be too disabling then they can change it when he next gains a level
Share Spells (Ex): The summoner may cast a spell
with a target of “You” on his eidolon (as a spell with
a range of touch) instead of on himself. A summoner
may cast spells on his eidolon even if the spells
normally do not affect creatures of the eidolon’s type
(outsider). Spells cast in this way must come from the
summoner spell list. This ability does not allow the
eidolon to share abilities that are not spells, even if
they function like spells.Now, I'm not entirely sure about how spell trigger/spell completion items work with that, but scrolls are technically cast when you use them. Either way, scrolls are only 10 gold more per use, which is still within reason. If you can prove me wrong on that point, in that scrolls and/or wands work with the share spells ability, then I will gladly take my response back. I will also thank you, because I've honestly never known one way or the other if that's how scrolls/wands work in conjunction with Share Spells
EDIT: Also, He was looking for a solution including running out of spells to reduce him.
The scroll and wands are actually considered to be cast by the creator of the scroll. That is why the DC, caster level checks and so on go by the caster abilities of the person that created the scroll.
The reduce person spell may have been overlooked by me, but I did not see it on the summoner's spell list. If it's on the spell list the problem is solved.Edit: If they are not on the summoner's spell list they have to have a target of "you", and reduce person does not have a target of "you"
Edit:Changed reduce spell to reduce person
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I also think he wanted a solution, other than a resize, and was looking for feedback.
Edited
Ding-ding-ding.
I was trying to find out why the ability to be bigger couldn't be negated, and the response I received was:
"Having to deal with annoyances and inconveniences is part of the choice made,"
I don't like dealing with nit-picky things, so yes, in my games, most of the halls and doorways will just be bigger; funny enough, I enjoy giants, so this is the truth in most of my games anyways. However, if I were to play a Summoner in another GM's game, I would not hem and haw about the penalties, because I have been shown that they are what comes with a large Eidolon.
Depending on the type of Eidolon, you can argue that it can fit into much smaller spaces than normal. For instance, my game has a serpant type, and the GM ruled that it can go through very tight spaces, but it cannot fight from them.
Part of the problem I have with Large and Huge are the bonuses they grant. Taking the Large evolution and then getting a permanent reduce person cast on it seems better than just spending the evo points to get the same benefitts.
The scroll and wands are actually considered to be cast by the creator of the scroll. That is why the DC, caster level checks and so on go by the caster abilities of the person that created the scroll.
That is incorrect, the caster level is set when the item is created and can be any level up to the creator's level with a minimum of the level needed to cast the spell. If the spell was considered cast by the creator they would be unusable.
The reduce person spell may have been overlooked by me, but I did not see it on the summoner's spell list. If it's on the spell list the problem is solved.
It is on the list along with enlarge person, so the summon can shrink the pet when needed or make it even bigger!
Edit: If they are not on the summoner's spell list they have to have a target of "you", and reduce person does not have a target of "you"
Read what share spell does again, there are two parts of it. One is that you can cast personal spells on it and the other is that you can cast spells on it that dont normally effect its type.