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This is my group’s playtest of the Cavalier, Inquisitor, Summoner, and Alchemist. First, I will list their stats, then how the game ran, and then the group’s thoughts and feelings.
Characters:
First, the group also had a Swashbuckler and Warlock from WoTC’s Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane. Halfway through, the Swashbuckler died, and was replaced with a Cavalier. I will not list the Warlock’s or Swashbuckler’s stats unless you want them. Each character had 20 points to generate their characters with using the core book’s point buy chart. All characters are 3rd level. I will only list the skills and 0-level spells of the characters if you want me to.
-Inquisitor:
-Race: Shifter (from Races of Eberron book. I took liberties and said that the Shifter receives a +2 to Wisdom and Constitution to bring it up to speed with other Pathfinder races, in addition to the other positive and negatives to stats the race receives.)
-Stats: Str: 14, Dex: 15, Con, 14, Int: 12, Wis: 16, Chr: 8
-Options: Choose Rune Domain.
-Feats: Dodge, Combat Reflexes
-Weapon: Glaive +1
-Armor: Chainmail +1
-Spells: Cure Light Wounds, Bane, Shield of Faith, Magic Weapon
-Summoner:
-Race: Human (+2 Chr)
-Stats: Str: 10, Dex: 12 Con: 13, Int: 14, Wis: 10, Chr: 16
-Feats: Dodge, Magical Aptitude, Rapid Reload
-Weapon: L. Crossbow
-Armor: Studded Leather
-Spells: Shield, Protection from Evil, Magic Fang
-Other: Amulet of Natural Armor +1
-Summoner’s Eidolon:
-Build: Serpentine
-Stats: Str: 15, Dex: 17, Con: 13, Int: 7, Wis: 10, Chr: 11
-Evolution Options: Limbs (2, Arms and Legs), Claws
-Feats: Multiattack, Dodge
-Alchemist:
-Race: Dwarf
-Stats: Str: 14, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 16, Wis: 12, Chr: 8
-Feats: Medium Armor Prof., Dodge
-Weapons: Warhammer, L. Crossbow, Acid Flasks
-Armor: +1 Chainmail
-Extracts: Cure Light Wounds, Shield, True Strike
-Notes: Didn’t own any poisons.
-Cavalier:
-Race: Halfling
-Stats: Str: 14, Dex: 14, Con: 10, Int: 11, Wis: 12, Chr: 16
-Class Options: Order of Sword, Oath of Loyalty and Oath of Justice
-Mount: Fastieth from Eberron Campaign setting (pg: 280)
-Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride by Attack, Spirited Charge:
-Weapon: +1 Lance (for small creatures)
-Armor: Full Plate (for small creatures), heavy wooden shield
Adventure:
I ran WoTC’s “Forge of Fury” for my group, if you wanted to follow along.
The party ran right up the side of the mountain into their first encounter (area 1) pretty quickly, and dispatched the first group of Orcs (I used the stats out of the bestiary) without using a single special class ability; except for the summoner, who’s Eidolon missed again and again, but did a good job of soaking up damage; the Summoner also cast Magic Fang upon the Eidolon (but it kept missing).
The first few problems came in a room where there was a rickety rope bridge requiring an Acrobatics check to cross, while at the same time being under fire from Orcs. First, we discovered that an Alchemist’s bombs don’t have a listed range; or if they do, it is so well hidden that no one could find it. Also, the bombs, while they did help damage the orcs, also helped damage the party as well. After the battle, the Summoner’s Eidolon failed it’s Acrobatics check, falling 200 feet to it’s death.
The party continued on, finding a room with some more orcs (area 11), where the Alchemist used two more bombs, killing one orc, and dealing damage to both the orcs and the swashbuckler. The Inquisitor cast shield of faith on himself as well.
It should be noted that during this time, while combat is going, the Alchemist and Summoner are just firing crossbows, reloading, firing, etc.
The characters come to a room with two wolves and an ogre (area 12). The Alchemist throws another bomb, killing one wolf and damaging the other. The Inquisitor closes with the wolf, using his Protection Judgment power while the Swashbuckler closes with the Ogre, who promptly kills him (the swashbuckler). The party manages to kill the wolf and ogre in two more rounds; during this fight the wolf attacked the Alchemist, who drinks her first (and last) extract, a cure light wounds.
The players find a locked cell which conveniently holds the Cavalier and her mount, then keep moving, activating a poison trap, succeed on all their saving throws (Fort vs DC:18! I was amazed they all did it!) opening a door, and finding a lot more orcs (area 14). The Alchemist threw another bomb, killing one orc and injuring the others, the Cavalier charges, killing an orc, while the summoner summoned a celestial giant spider, which killed another orc. The party then quickly killed the rest of the orcs in the room.
The party moved onwards, finding more orcs (area 4) which they dispatched with ease (the summoner also summoned another celestial giant spider), although my summoner noted at this time that it “sucked” having to summon as a full-round action. This was the end of the night.
Comments, Observations and Complaints:
Summoner:
Everyone agreed that the summon times should be faster. Also, it took the player three times as long to make the character as everyone else, and this is not a player who takes a long time normally, even with a class he’s never seen. Also, we talked about it, and thought that the Eidolon could also be a roguish type, and thought a “trapfinding” evolution would be cool. Also, the summoner’s player thought the class might benefit from some better ranged weapons, making the summoner not as useless. Another player suggested attack spells. We also talked about how, of all the other classes in the game, the summoner was the one who got the biggest shaft from multiclassing and prestige classing, if that was the player’s desire.
Alchemist:
The player of the Alchemist was very disappointed that the Alchemist couldn’t boost other characters. She felt that this made the Alchemist worse than a Cleric who never casts his spells on anyone other than himself (She called the Alchemist class perfect for a selfish f--k). I noticed that she never really used any of the Alchemist’s class features, to which she remarked that it was a wasted action to boost herself, and that the mutagen’s Charisma damage would really stink. Other players commented on the fact that while bombs where great for killing baddies, if a character was in melee combat with said baddie, they themselves would take a large portion of the damage. I think that a discovery REDUCING the blast range of a bomb would be great. Also, another player thought that the Alchemist should get medium armor prof.
Inquisitor:
While I and the player who played it liked it, I thought that between the spells, judgments and the ability to switch out a tactical feat, this could really bog down a player who can’t make up their mind easily. Thankfully, this wasn’t an issue for my player, but it’s just a thought.
Cavalier:
My player wondered, at higher levels, how Spirited Charge might stack with Supreme Charge. They also thought that without the mount, the Cavalier would have sucked. Also, the mount selections were off-putting; she wondered why a player could have a wolf but not a dog? Or a horse but not…a dog? Why are dogs so underpowered? I noticed that a player could have never even convinced a horse to cross the rickety bridge. How would you get these things into a dungeon?
Okay, how was that for my first playtest report?
I am sorry about the late reply. Could you submit the 8th level playtest when you get a chance. The playtest was quiet good by the way.
A note about your Inquisitor comment. Although I think you're right, I also think maybe the class is intended for the type of player who really likes a character that has a lot going on. Some people revel in that stuff.
Also, the mount selections were off-putting; she wondered why a player could have a wolf but not a dog? Or a horse but not…a dog? Why are dogs so underpowered? I noticed that a player could have never even convinced a horse to cross the rickety bridge. How would you get these things into a dungeon?
Yeah, one of our houserules is going to be to pretty much ignore this list if it stays restrictive. Riding dog is a must at first level.
I am unsure what pbp means, but I did run a playtest, in which my players, who, yes, are not power gamers, made their own characters, not me. Is this the point you were trying to make?
I think it was due to an earlier statement which I am too lazy to look up where you said Eidolons were about the equivalent of a druid's animal companion.
Now since I did not look it up, someone else may have said that, and if I put it on your shoulders I apologize in advance. In that case the poster would have to explain why he made that statement
Edit:IIRC that statement contributed greatly to the creation of this thread.
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Re: The Alchemist
We did a low level playtest last week of which I have yet to write a report on, but we did notice that the flavor of this class seems to be more of a skill monkey, with bombs instead of sneak attack. With 4+ int skills and INT being the primary stat, there were a lot of skill points to go around. We do agree with other posters though, that trapfinding should be a class ability in order to complete the "expert" role that this class seems to want to take. So we kind of see why the alchemist isn't meant to buff other characters straight out of the box. It's more of an alternate to the rogue.
Glad to see your report...got a couple comments for you.
I don't recall the full stats on a shifter (really wish I could get someone to DM eberron here), so they might very well be propperly balanced against the core races...though just keep in mind the reason Pathfinder core races got better was to get them back to speed with all the noncore stuff.
The characters I would say are very much not optimized. Though in a way I'm happier for this. Not every party is well optimized, not every player knows how, not every player wants to. This is far from what I would consider a weak party. One thing I'm curious though, they're third level right? And have +1 armor and weapons? Maybe it's just a difference in play styles, or me not being as familiar with the wealth by level rules...but this just feels strange to me.
Not sure if you've caught it yet, but weapons without a listed range count as range 10. Would be nice if it was listed though, as I had to be told this as well. The bombs were seriously that damaging to the fellow party members? The splash is only five foot off the initial target right, and min damage, right? I think the alchemist should be dropping medium armor prof and getting improved initiative...and you (or he rather) should be talking to the other party members about delaying their actions until after he goes. Does your group (before the playtest) ever have a wizard with area spells? Is there the same problem?
I really have no sympathy for the summoner having to summon as a full round. Wizards, sorcerers, druids, and clerics all have to summon as a full round...I honestly think if Jason had never put the longer durration and shorter casting time we wouldn't hear all the complaining about how it ruins the class (not saying your player is saying this, but it has been said by a few on the boards). It's a lot like when your running a game and figure out half way through that you've given out too much treasure. If you take it back, everyone crys, if you leave it alone, the game falls apart...
Cavalier...
I whole heartedly agree on the dog issue. One of my favorite nonhuman races to play is a halfling...and though I've never had much desire to make a mounted character, if I were playing a halfling cavalier...the fact that there is no dog mount would likely cause me to make something else.
Inquisitor...
Being a fan of warhammer 40,000 I think I can see where Jason got the inspiration for the inquisitor. I really like this class, though to be honest I'm not so much excited to play one, as I'm itching to use one as a reocuring villian. Your point on how the class has a lot going on is very vallid. I can see this class being ignored by a lot of the people I game with, as they're only kinda familiar with D&D/d20.
Alchemist...
I think you should encourage the player to try out some of her classes abilities. A lot of things sound suboptimal on paper...but she doesn't seem happy using bombs (maybe comfortable would be a better word choice?) and taking pot shots with a cross bow is only so exciting. Downing a strength mutigen could have given her a little bumb in melee that could have been useful against the orcs. They were stock standard orcs I imagine? No, she won't be a barbarian swinging away...but she can do damage and should have a decent AC. A dex mutigen would have given her a slight bonus on her ranged attacks as well as an even better AC. I would have recomended a con mutigen if the party had a rogue and needed someone who could take some hits to flank with...but no rogue, and a dwarf with a +1 con bonus...
Summoner...
Three times? You're essentially making two characters, one is pretty simple, the other is fairly complex. I think the eidolon is about is roguish as it should get. Trapfinding wouldn't be game breaking in my opinion, though I can see people asking for sneak attack shortly after...and frankly, if eidolon's wind up with sneak attack I will consider selling my Pathfinder books. The idea of a ranged attack sounds good though. I would like the eidolon a lot better if it had a wider variety of abilities rather than a wider variety of melee attacks. Hadn't given it much though before, the multi classing issue. I don't see the summoner getting shafted much harder than a druid/alchemist/oracle/witch/bard. They all have class abilities that don't stack well with others and are completely dependent upon their class levels rather than character level.