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So a player of mine is a 5rd level cleric wanting to craft an item with two spells on it. But it's on a rock.
I'm looking at Table 15-29 and trying to figure it out for him.
The spells are 2nd level and 0 level.
He wants them as singleuse, use activated. And he wants to cast it as a 3rd level caster.
So i have the 2nd level first
Spell Level x Caster level x 50
(2 x 3 x 50 = 300gp)
Then the second effect is a 0 level spell:
(.5 x 3 x 50 = 75gp)
So added togeather the item cost base price is 375gp right?
or is it the multiple abilities section on the table to make
300 gp + 112.5 (75 x 1.5 per chart) to = 412.5gp?
Does this even apply?
Can a wondrous item have more than one spell on it?
HALP! :-)
By use activated, do you mean that he's going to throw the rock at someone? Or otherwise hit them with it? And what are the spells?
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By use activated, do you mean that he's going to throw the rock at someone? Or otherwise hit them with it? And what are the spells?
He says he plans to have the rock stepped on or thrown.
He hasn't told me the spells offically.In the next session they know they are going against magic armored undead. He was talking about using Consecrate and Stabilize.
I think his idea is to throw a preped stone at another player if he can't get there in time to save them.
that would turn a touch spell(stabilize) into a ranged spell which is a pretty powerful boost. I also don't think it would be unreasonable to require the new item to be some sort of masterwork item vs a rock.
I think you should encourage: making a scroll instead and being prepared to channel for the stabilize if needed.
You need to know the exact spells.
You are the DM. You need to know them in order to appropriately price the item. Just knowing what he's told you so far, you don't have enough information to price it.
The formula is only about 10% of the equation. The other half is a balance issue.
What is balanced for two particular spells may be way too expensive or cheap for two other spells- even of the same level.
-S
So i have the 2nd level first
Spell Level x Caster level x 50
(2 x 3 x 50 = 300gp)
Then the second effect is a 0 level spell:
(.5 x 3 x 50 = 75gp)So added togeather the item cost base price is 375gp right?
or is it the multiple abilities section on the table to make
300 gp + 112.5 (75 x 1.5 per chart) to = 412.5gp?
Does this even apply?
Can a wondrous item have more than one spell on it?
Sure, a wondrous item could have two spells. It just follows the creation rules.
However, if one spell triggers a second, simultaneous spell, then what you really have is a spell with a contingency effect going off to trigger a second spell. That's a much higher level spell which is not factored in amongst the other two.
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Thanks all for the advice and such.
I fully understand that no two spells are the same and some are better than others.
I'm a basic principle/formula guy and then I adjust the price accordingly to the power level i feel the item is. I understand all of this.
The main question which i guess hasn't been answered....which of the two formulas would be proper? If at all? Or is it all wrong?
I'm also trying to make sure I understand Pathfinder item creation rules. So that's why I'm asking also which is the proper way to go formula wise. (just so i have an understanding of a general guideline)
He has decided to go with Consecrate and Light on a stone. So when the stone is stepped on the light goes on and consecrate weakens the undead. Both would go off at the same time which is why i figured it would be a single use activated on table 15-29.
They want to put these randomly around the outside of the town, so to help the night watch be alert. Basicly so you can see the undead figures move in the light from the ramparts at night, as you launch a boulder in thier general direction. (or in some cases thier may be a rabbit)
Kind of a neat idea.
He has decided to go with Consecrate and Light on a stone. So when the stone is stepped on the light goes on and consecrate weakens the undead. Both would go off at the same time which is why i figured it would be a single use activated on table 15-29.
They want to put these randomly around the outside of the town, so to help the night watch be alert. Basicly so you can see the undead figures move in the light from the ramparts at night, as you launch a boulder in thier general direction. (or in some cases thier may be a rabbit)
Kind of a neat idea.
Indeed! I think you could make it so. Flavorful fun like this should be encouraged.
You could essentially price it as a magical trap, and follow those rules. I'd say this is a CR 1 equivalent trap, and those go for about 1,400 gp. That seems pricey to me.
Or you could consider that functionally this is like an alarm with a built-in light source. It's nominally effective in that it weakens the undead (and also cool), but actually more expensive than just making grenade traps with alchemist fire.
Regardless, I wouldn't overprice it to be out of the realm of possibility. It's not a 300 gp effect though either.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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He has decided to go with Consecrate and Light on a stone.
The key is whether or not the DM feels the formula is a fair price for consecrate.
If he did allow the formula, then the price would need to factor the SL, CL and the material components plus the multiplier for long duration effects.
I'm a little new here so I hope that I'm not supposed to ask a second question on the same thread but I am wondering about creating an item containing 2, lvl 0 spells. I feel a very simular question to the one above.
The fist spell I'd like is; GHOST SOUND
School illusion (figment); Level bard 0, sorcerer/wizard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a bit of wool or a small lump of wax)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect illusory sounds
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Functioning simultaneously with; LULLABY
School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area living creatures within a 10-ft.-radius burst
Duration concentration + 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
I want the range of the "phantom lullaby" to be 30' so I would calculate the caster lvl at 2.
I want the item to be a small stone that is held in my mouth to activate. To aid in stealth checks while sneaking past a hostile watch.
Would the equation for the first spell then be;
(.5[spell lvl]*2[caster lvl]*2000[continuous]*2[duration; rounds])2[no space limit]=X
And to add the second spell would the equation be;
X*1.5[multiple different abilities]= Total cost
Is this plausible within the rules? I'm a little puzzled.
Correction:
Would the equation for the first spell then be;
(.5[spell lvl]*2[caster lvl]*2000[continuous]*4[duration; rounds])2[no space limit]=X
And to add the second spell would the equation be;
X*1.5[multiple different abilities]= Total cost
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ConcentricO, if I get exactly what you are trying to do, it is a very costly item that will have a small effect.
I think that you want to do is to have the stone shift the apparent point of origin of your lullaby spell (and so the point from which you casting voice originate) 30' away from your position.
That is stronger than the reach metamagic feat.
There isn't a magic item to which you can compare this effect directly or a rule to make one, but a lesser metamagic rod that add an effect that cost 2 extra spell levels cost 9,000 gp.
That should be adjusted by the number of daily uses you want out of the item, or it it can be used only once.
- * -
Would the equation for the first spell then be;
(.5[spell lvl]*2[caster lvl]*2000[continuous]*4[duration; rounds])2[no space limit]=X
And to add the second spell would the equation be;
X*1.5[multiple different abilities]= Total cost
It depend on what you are trying to do.
You want an item that is continuously active when in your mouth?
And the the equation for second spell would be:
(.5[spell lvl]*1[caster lvl]*2000[continuous]*4[duration; rounds])2[no space limit]*1.5
so the total cost of a constant item would be:
(.5[spell lvl]*1[caster lvl]*2000[continuous]*4[duration; rounds])2[no space limit]+(.5[spell lvl]*1[caster lvl]*2000[continuous]*4[duration; rounds])2[no space limit]*1.5= total cost
(that is , if we disregard the effect that shift your spell apparent point of origin)
Notice that I have set the caster level at 1. For a constant effect your caster level don't matter and you can make a item with a caster level as low as you want, as long as it is the minimum caster level needed to cast the spell.
But even with a that cost reduction we are speaking of a 20,000 gp item.
For 2.500 gp (5,000 gp if it don't use any of your body spaces) you can make a item that give you a +5 to stealth, effectively getting the same result.
Note that while the mouth isn't one of the body spaces, holding something in your mouth will reduce your capabilities.
Depending on the item size it could impair your speech and spellcasting abilities, or, if it is very small, you will incur the risk of shallowing the item if you drink a potion, and so on.
I would probably apply a price reduction if those drawback are significant enough.
The x2 multiplier is for items that you keep in your pockets or follow you autonomously, like a ioun stone.
Thank you very much for answering that. I suppose that aside from a role playing aspect it would make a lot more sense to just increase my stealth skill instead.
Just to further clarify for future ideas, when adding a second spell to a wondrous item I would add the costs of two like items (with different spells) together to get a dual spell effect? Thus not multiplying the cost by 1.5 as prescribed in the 'multiple different abilities'?
Spell lvl * Caster lvl * 2000 * Duration Mod + 2ndSpell lvl * Caster lvl * 2000 * Duration Mod
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Thank you very much for answering that. I suppose that aside from a role playing aspect it would make a lot more sense to just increase my stealth skill instead.
Just to further clarify for future ideas, when adding a second spell to a wondrous item I would add the costs of two like items (with different spells) together to get a dual spell effect? Thus not multiplying the cost by 1.5 as prescribed in the 'multiple different abilities'?Spell lvl * Caster lvl * 2000 * Duration Mod + 2ndSpell lvl * Caster lvl * 2000 * Duration Mod
You multiply the cost of the second (and third, fourth and so on) power by 1,5 and then you add the different power costs together.
You generally put the highest cost power first, so that it is not multiplied.
A important note to customizing items is that you should use the "Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" table values in the order in which they are presented.
A shirt with a constant shield effect isn't a constant first level spell, it is a item that give a +4 enhancement to the AC with the secondary power of negating magic missiles.
Another important thing is that you should always compare existing items. If the new item do something similar to an existing item you start with the existing item price, not with the prices in the table.
Making custom items is tricky.
Your lullaby stone is a low power item that, following the rules, will have a very high cost. A good and experienced GM could chose to eyeball the price instead of following the guidelines and allow his construction for a fraction of the price I proposed. It would be a valid choice on his part as long as can maintain the balance and fun in his games.
He could make the stone something like this:
"This hollow stone work like a whistle when held in the mouth. A bard could use it to cast a lullaby cantrip 3 times a day, projecting the sound of the whistle like it was originating from a point 30' away from him.
Each activation of the item last as long as the bard continue whistling and the effect end 1 round after the bard has stopped whistling.
price 1.500 gp, cost to produce 750 gp, caster level 1; requirements: creator must be a bard, lullaby"
One of the big differences in this item pricing is that the effect isn't constant, it is use activated with a limited number of uses in one day. Without the ability to project the voice its cost would be 1,200 gp, I eyeballed that cost.
I don't say that this description or pricing is perfect, but it seem reasonable for the item power and affordable for the level at which it is useful.