RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Just to make an observation, a naked archer paladin (where his only equipment is a non magical bow) can one round kill the demon with with just his own minute per level buffs (he can do so with no spell buffs and normal equipment as well, so this is just a thought experiment).
25 Point Buy, level 19, Halfling
Str 16 (14 +4 Bulls strength -2 halfling)
Dex 26 (16 + 4 Cat's grace +2 Halfling + 4 level )
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 8
Cha 22 (16 + 4 Eagle's Splendor and +2 haling )
Attacks (19 BAB + 8 dex + 5 holy sword +3 Divine Favor + 1 feat + 6 smiting) +41
With Rapid Shot and Speed : 39/39/39/34/29
Damage 60.5 (3.5 bow + 3 str + 5 weapon +3 divine favor +7 holy + 38 smiting)
Average Damage (counting the probability of crits) is 399.
Quick calculation shows this works at 18 and leaves the Balor, on average, staggered at level 17.
Smite Evil +6 to hit, +38 damage
Divine Favor +3 to hit +3 damage
Holy Sword on the Bow
Cat's Grace, Bull Strength, Eagle's splendor
Bless Weapon
Weapon Bond: Speed
Weapon Focus
Many Shot
Rapid Shot
Improved Crit
Improved Init
Others not used
Since he loses a turn to cast a weak buff on himself in order to do less damage than the fighter less often, I'm going to have to say no. This isn't precluding the possibility of a bard that is a better archer than the fighter.
The HalflingBard can also kill a balor in two rounds but has far more abilities and skills than FighterMan.
I was not saying a better archer than FighterMan, but better overall due in part to great archery skills but also due to a large variety of skills.
I have not calculated the chance that the fighter crits and staggers/blinds the balor. As this is a DC 30 fortitude save and the balor has a fort save of +29, the odds of this happening are in my opinion insignificant.
Just to point something out -- the Staggering Critical feat (and to a much lesser extent, Blinding Critical) still does something useful even on a successful save (e.g. the target is staggered for one round). So saying that the odds of the feat triggering is insignificant is not really true.
Actually, Stunning Critical is the one to look out for; on a successful save, it staggers the target for 1d4 rounds. It's a little surprising that FighterMan has so many critical feats but no Improved Critical, but whatever.
Actually, Stunning Critical is the one to look out for; on a successful save, it staggers the target for 1d4 rounds. It's a little surprising that FighterMan has so many critical feats but no Improved Critical, but whatever.
He doesn't have Critical Mastery, either. The crit feats are more for the rapier than the bow.
Actually, Stunning Critical is the one to look out for; on a successful save, it staggers the target for 1d4 rounds. It's a little surprising that FighterMan has so many critical feats but no Improved Critical, but whatever.He doesn't have Critical Mastery, either. The crit feats are more for the rapier than the bow.
I don't find Critical Mastery very exciting, so I didn't find that omission surprising.
If you use a feat from the players guide for the Curse of the Crimson Throne called crossbow mastery--you can reload any type of crossbow as a free action and the action doesn't provoke AoO. If you take this feat for the Heavy crossbow you can add even more damage.
As an aside... is it worth the top-level archer fight monkey-gripping a Large bow?
As an aside... is it worth the top-level archer fight monkey-gripping a Large bow?
Weapon damage dice are almost completely irrelevant when talking about mid to high level combat. FighterMan could wield a bow that did 0d0 damage and his effectiveness would be exactly the same.
Glad Balors can't turn invisible!
Another thing FighterMan could do about the Balor telekinesing a barrier is just shoot it. He does 1d8+33 damage per hit, which is enough to get through even a solid adamantine boulder given enough time and arrows. If I really wanted to press the issue, he could just have a quiver full of adamantine arrows. It wouldn't take very many to shatter whatever object the Balor is hiding behind, given that it can only weigh 375 pounds and FighterMan can ignore anything less than total cover.Don't the rules for damaging objects specifically state that certain forms of attacks are useless against certain items/materials? Trying to break a rope with a club for example, or getting through an oak door with arrows. I think it was one of those "the GM determines it kind of things" but what kind of GM is going to allow a boulder be destroyed by a couple of arrows? Even adamantine arrows (which at best would bury themselves into the boulder I think).
I say the fighter spends 54k on wings of flying and just hovers above the ground enough to negate sound based perception checks and clanking armor. then we can take listen out of the equation. honestly between the wings and boots of speed he has flight of 90 speed and if he spends a feat on Run he ought to be able to be properly melee.
The ability to fly does not make you any quieter. At best you won't have to deal with the GM's circumstance penalties for walking on dry sticks and what not.
@Ravingdork
Ok this is a fantasy game, and we're talking about a near epic level fighter with uber-specialization in his bow, with adamantine arrows. I don't see why he COULDN'T break through a boulder. You're trying to apply real world physics not only to a fantasy game but one at epic levels. Sure IRL that's impossible, but it's also impossible for me to turn invisible, raise someone from the dead, fly, etc etc.
for what it is worth paizo released a trial splat book called traits, may want to look into it for a free +2 init
what kind of GM is going to allow a boulder be destroyed by a couple of arrows?
Clearly you did not read the thread. The "boulder" is a 10'x10' sheet of rock less than 1/4" thick. That's not much thicker than plate armor, and steel has more hardness and hit points than stone.
HERE is the post where I do the math for that.
@Ravingdork
Ok this is a fantasy game, and we're talking about a near epic level fighter with uber-specialization in his bow, with adamantine arrows. I don't see why he COULDN'T break through a boulder. You're trying to apply real world physics not only to a fantasy game but one at epic levels. Sure IRL that's impossible, but it's also impossible for me to turn invisible, raise someone from the dead, fly, etc etc.
I never once brought up physics. I quoted the rules.
what kind of GM is going to allow a boulder be destroyed by a couple of arrows?Clearly you did not read the thread. The "boulder" is a 10'x10' sheet of rock less than 1/4" thick. That's not much thicker than plate armor, and steel has more hardness and hit points than stone.
HERE is the post where I do the math for that.
Yes I missed the thinness of the "sheet." I can see adamantine arrows chewing that up pretty easily, but certainly not regular arrows.
I can see adamantine arrows chewing that up, but certainly not regular ones.
A bare hand can tear through concrete MANY times thicker than that. Why wouldn't a hardened steel-headed arrow that's designed to punch holes in steel armor from 100 yards away?
I agree that an arrow wouldn't be an appropriate tool for destroying an actual boulder (a solid rock roughly 5' spherical diameter or more). For destroying such a thin sheet of not-even-actually-rock (remember, concrete is noticeably lighter than standard stone, so an actual stone sheet would be significantly thinner than even the concrete)? Pretty much anything could do it.
I can see adamantine arrows chewing that up, but certainly not regular ones.A bare hand can tear through concrete MANY times thicker than that. Why wouldn't a hardened steel-headed arrow that's designed to punch holes in steel armor from 100 yards away?
I agree that an arrow wouldn't be an appropriate tool for destroying an actual boulder (a solid rock roughly 5' spherical diameter or more). For destroying such a thin sheet of not-even-actually-rock (remember, concrete is noticeably lighter than standard stone, so an actual stone sheet would be significantly thinner than even the concrete)? Pretty much anything could do it.
Arced arrows that gained velocity were known for punching through armor (on occasion). Shooting directly at plate rarely worked (though they got through chainmail and ringmail easily).
Now I'm quoting physics, not that it matters as it has little to no bearing on a brittle sheet of stone.
Shooting directly at plate rarely worked (though they got through chainmail and ringmail easily).
Err... no.
I notice that this fighter started at level 1 with a 14 WIS. Is this common in Pathfinder? I don't think I ever saw a Fighter statted with a WIS that high in the 3.5 games I ran.
Ken
Not common, but remember this fighter was built to be able to take on a Balor, so it has to have a decent Will save. Honestly any character with a low Will save at high levels is a liability.
I never once brought up physics. I quoted the rules.
You never once quoted any rules. You asked "don't the rules" yadda yadda. Show me the rules you're referencing.
I never once brought up physics. I quoted the rules.You never once quoted any rules. You asked "don't the rules" yadda yadda. Show me the rules you're referencing.
Page 174 of the Pathfinder book (I couldn't find it in the SRD or else I would have had a direct quote in my earlier post) under ineffective weapons. It specifically states most weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors unless they are designed to break it up such as a pick or hammer.
EDIT: Found it in the SRD:
Ranged Weapon Damage: Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (unless the weapon is a siege engine or something similar). Divide the damage dealt by 2 before applying the object's hardness.
Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can't effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer.
If you really want to do the damage of one lvl higher take ranks in use magic device.. get a wand of gravity bow.. increases the size dice by one size category either on a bow or crossbow. save the feat and get a wand :D
If only the balor wasnt so heavy I'd have it hurl himself into melee range with the archer as a swift action.. then make a full attack, any chance we can make it a young balor with a class level instead ?
Or rather make it an advanced young balor, for simplicity's sake.
It gains some 5 points of ac, it gets a +1 attack bonus, better DC on spell abilities, +4 on intitiative, deals a little less damage and it can now hurl itself as a swift action ^^
It even makes the archer have to work to hit the balor now, not even counting any additional magical equipment it needs a 3 to hit it's AC on it's highest BAB. Mini-Balors rock better. Let's add a mithral chain shirt to that to make it really hard to hit (7+) for next to no expense ;)
Figuring in the criticals, ArcherMan will do 290.39 damage per round on average to the Balor using Haste, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim and Manyshot.
If he swaps the Greater Bracers of Archery for Bracers of Falcon's Aim, he doubles his critical threat range, and even though he is doing 2 points less damage per attack he's getting more crits, for 302.69 average DPR (and presumably more staggering).