| Clark Peterson Legendary Games, Necromancer Games |
I won't give you an answer, but do this: go through the creation process and see if in doing that you find your answer.
I'll give you a hint. There is a reason psionic items are not wondrous items. That might tell you where to look to know if a food item is a wondrous item.
Of course, you can also see if there are other wondrous items in the DMG that are food items. That might help too. :)
| Neil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
...I have to draw the line somewhere about how much help I provide, otherwise the FAQ ends up a book in itself. You see how much advice Neil Spicer has written; should I do exactly as much as that, or more?
I completely back Sean on his position. He's judging the submissions for Round One and shouldn't be expected to hold anyone's hand on how to design something, especially since the FAQ and Round One rules cover everything you need. And there's a lot to be said for demonstrating you've got your own initiative, planning, and foresight to go learn from the previous two years of the contest on what works and what doesn't.
Personally, I view myself as really more of a commentator, cheerleader, and advice-giver prior to Round One. And I'll give some additional advice on each submission that's chosen for Top 32 on what seems to be someone's strengths and weaknesses. I also realize I probably went way overboard on the pages of advice I scrawled above. But, in the interests of encouraging as much quality participation in RPG Superstar as possible, I wanted to put together an extensive listing of things I felt were important to consider when putting together a wondrous item submission...mostly because it's my hope Paizo gets some really great and professional submissions.
Now, after the Top 32 are selected and Round One is over, I'm not going to go super in-depth on the nuances of handling each challenge. An RPG Superstar needs to demonstrate a sense of independent thought, self-motivation, and individual insight into how they navigate each round to win over the voting public. And, really, it's a long-running job interview with Paizo. In my opinion, everyone should look at it that way. If you're not in this competition for a shot to write an adventure and have it published, you're probably in the competition for the wrong reasons.
But that's just my two-cents,
--Neil
Matthew Morris
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
,
Star Voter Season 6
|
I'll agree with Sean and Neil from a more cynical POV. I got into the top 32 last year, and specifically entered it as a promise to myself that I'd toss something out there to have it ripped to tiny shreds by Clark, Sean, et. al. So if I can at least make it into the first round, beating out a few hundred people, anyone can*.
| Kobold Catgirl Marathon Voter Season 9 |
** spoiler omitted **
I'll agree with Sean and Neil from a more cynical POV. I got into the top 32 last year, and specifically entered it as a promise to myself that I'd toss something out there to have it ripped to tiny shreds by Clark, Sean, et. al. So if I can at least make it into the first round, beating out a few hundred people, anyone can*.
** spoiler omitted **
Jason Nelson
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
It's all true - if you wanna be a SUPERSTAR you gotta prove you can intuit some things and figure out some others. An RPG company editor or publisher looking at giving you an assignment has to weigh their own time and whether they feel like they'd have to hand-carry you through the process. If they end up having to spend a ton of their own time to fix your product, what exactly was the point of paying YOU to do it in the first place? Editors sometimes have to do a lot of rewrites even with experienced authors (poor James has had to cancel games on more than one occasion for things like this) - if they know ahead of time that it seems likely with you, they'll likely keep on shopping for another author whose shown themselves to be more self-sufficient.
Showing you have a steady hand on the tiller and know how to USE a compass and sextant and to read a map and the weather goes a long way in determining whether an RPG editor/pub decides to hire you to sail a ship.
If you wanna wear the Big Boy Pants, step up to the Big Boy Table!
| Curaigh Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Sean K Reynolds wrote:...we're not likely to publish the dancing skull of Benito Mussolini......which is clearly an artifact and not a wondrous item anyway...
Not true. I got one at Disneyland this summer, and my friend just ordered two from Reallyitswondrousnotanartifact.com. :)
| Clark Peterson Legendary Games, Necromancer Games |
I love this line. It sounds like something from a sports call-in show.
But is it really like a table, or more like a changing station with all kinds of powders and unguents?
You are right. But keep in mind, the powders are wondrous items while the unguents are likely potions. :)
| Charles Evans 25 |
The Earl of Sandwich wrote:You are right. But keep in mind, the powders are wondrous items while the unguents are likely potions. :)I love this line. It sounds like something from a sports call-in show.
But is it really like a table, or more like a changing station with all kinds of powders and unguents?
Wait a moment. Was Jason Nelson's original comment based on the US or UK English version of 'pants'?
Personally I prefer the idea that it's the UK version, thus refers to underwear, and is some sort of comment on 'potty training' and moving up from baby nappies/diapers (although I'm not sure where the table reference fits in with this metaphor).
Jason Nelson
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Clark Peterson wrote:The Earl of Sandwich wrote:You are right. But keep in mind, the powders are wondrous items while the unguents are likely potions. :)I love this line. It sounds like something from a sports call-in show.
But is it really like a table, or more like a changing station with all kinds of powders and unguents?
Wait a moment. Was Jason Nelson's original comment based on the US or UK English version of 'pants'?
Personally I prefer the idea that it's the UK version, thus refers to underwear, and is some sort of comment on 'potty training' and moving up from baby nappies/diapers (although I'm not sure where the table reference fits in with this metaphor).
Just don't think about it too hard. It's better that way... :)
| Notsonoble Star Voter Season 8 |
Actually, my item from 2008 included a greater version, so it can work. I think the key is that it's okay to include variants or improved versions, but probably not a good idea to have multiple items that just fit into a category, such as figurines of wondrous power. I'd look at two different figurines as two different items, but something like the varieties of the horn of valhalla or strand of prayer beads are essentially the same item, just with different power levels for use at different levels in the game.
Well crap, I intended to do "protected" version of my item, but removed it because I didn't find any examples that were kept that had one oh well.
| Eric Morton RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo |
| Eric Morton RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 aka Epic Meepo |
| Neil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
It's true. Check the official contest rules. No mention of pants, whatsoever.
By that logic, there's a great many things the rules don't mention an RPG Superstar is required to do. Apparently, I don't have to pay taxes or my mortgage either. But, I'm going to continue doing so anyway because of the bad things that might happen to me if I don't. Same goes for wearing pants. :-P
Steven Helt
RPG Superstar 2013
,
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
|
Lord Snow
|
if I may, I would like to get this thread back on its original tracks.
I checked through all the previous top 32's, and noticed that all of the items are basicaly adventuring gear or combat orientad.
is it not recommanded to create an item which the PCs probably never use in a dungeon crawl/will probably have no need of owning, but might ery well encounter?
for example, if i design a magical tapestry (which I'm not) that has no adventuring use but could be commonly found in the households of rich nobles or marchents, and has some awesome effects to it (again, having nothing to do with combat, skill checks, spell casting etc.),but it will spice up the setting, will it work for the contest?
| Sir Ophiuchus |
Apparently one of the criteria the judges tend to bear in mind is "would a PC ever use this?"
Mayyyyybe if your item is awesome enough they'd make an exception, but I wouldn't bank on it. But there's nothing to say it can't be usable by a whole variety of people, PCs being just one set of possible owners.
Starglim
Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
|
I checked through all the previous top 32's, and noticed that all of the items are basicaly adventuring gear or combat orientad.
is it not recommanded to create an item which the PCs probably never use in a dungeon crawl/will probably have no need of owning, but might ery well encounter?
I don't think it necessarily needs to be combat or dungeon focused. The charts of the shadow voyage are neither, for example. It should be something that player characters would want to own or that might appear in an adventure. I can't say how well you'd do this year with a villain-focused or just wildly colourful item.
Making an item roughly similar to the past top 32 seems like an excellent policy.
Craig Johnston
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32
aka flash_cxxi
|
Two things I'd like to add to this excellent advice are:
1) Don't over think things. You don't have to create 50 Items and then pore through them to find what you think is your best.
I'm not saying don't do this, I'm just saying you don't have to.
As far as my entry was concerned it was the first and only item that I considered entering into the contest. I thought about it and gradually refined the idea and once I had what I wanted from the Item I then set about making it fit mechanically. It was that simple. Sometimes your first idea is your best idea, you just have to take that idea and push it beyond your initial concept.
2) Your Item doesn't have to be Über Super Mega Gonzo to be considered. Some of the simplest Items from last year were my favourites (Elizabeth's Haunted Shoes were my absolute favourite). My Item used flare, a simple 0-level Spell. It was the twist in execution that turned my Item from "0-level Spell-in-a-can: Pass" into a Top 32 pick.
I like Über Super Mega Gonzo as much as the next guy, but sometimes it's the simple things that make you say "Wow, I want one of those" just as much.
Just my 2cp, take it or leave it as you see fit. :)
One last thing I will add though. It has been said before but I'll reiterate it as it is an extremely important piece of information for you to remember: Be open to constructive criticism.
I don't mean things like "Your Item is teh suXXors", but honest opinions on why people (especially the Judges) do or do not like your Items is worth more than anything else you will get out of this competition. I welcomed any and all comments on my entry. Some I took on board and some I ignored, but I read and was grateful for everything that people had to say. Don't complain because people find fault with your "Masterful Item" that you spent weeks slaving over. Use those comments to make your next Item something even better.
I went bac and re-read my entry for Superstar 2008 and even though at the time I thought it was a well thought out and unique Item, I now see that it had many glaring flaws.
Have fun people, I can't wait to see everyone's Items come next year. :)
| Neil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
...Is it not recommanded to create an item which the PCs probably never use in a dungeon crawl/will probably have no need of owning, but might very well encounter?
I'm not a judge. So I feel a little more free to answer this question. And, since I started the "advice" thread, I almost feel compelled to do so.
In my honest opinion, the manner in which you've described such an item doesn't sound very "Superstar" to me. It's possible you could get through with such an item, but more than likely you'd be depending on flavor alone rather than something that has a mechanical purpose in the game. One of the major ways in which you'll get people (including the judges) excited about your item is for them to say, "Oooh, I'd totally want my character to have one of those!"
More rarely, an item can get through because it makes a GM say, "Oooh, I'd totally want my villain to have one of those!" But that's a lot narrower audience. If I'm offering advice to anyone for the RPG Superstar competition (which I am), I'd suggest you not submit an item that the PCs will almost never use and have no need of owning. Why? Because, if 32 other people submit something equally as flavorful that is an item the PCs will use or want to own, they'll more than likely beat you out of a chance to make the Top 32.
But that's just my two-cents,
--Neil
| Charles Evans 25 |
Hi all, this is my first post in these forums and I'd like to start with a question: what does "Gonzo" mean?
Difficult to explain, but read some of Clinton Boomer's entries from the first year of the contest...
Oh, and welcome to the Paizo Boards.Edit:
I've rounded up some links to Boomer's entries:
*Crown of the Breaching Legion*
*Cyrehllan, The Isle Of Cold Tears*
*Abzirael Ul-Shadai, The Cackling Whirling*
*Kakuen-Taka, The Hunger that Moves*
*Impartial Tribunal*
*Tomb of the Titan*
| Greg Monk RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Star Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7 aka Monkster |
Best advice is Rule -1 (that comes even before Rule 0): Don't be a jerk.
Don't be thin-skinned when people critique your item or any other entry. Thank people for their support.
I definately agree -- especially since, to even SEE any critiques, I'd have had to make at least the top 32, which would be a wonderful achievement in and of itself. Here's hoping I have the opportunity to read people saying bad (or even better, decent) things about my entry!
| Jim Groves Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4 |
Charles Evans 25 wrote:Difficult to explain, but read some of Clinton Boomer's entries from the first year of the contest...Ok, I think I get what it means. I looked it up in Wikipedia, but there I found that it was some type of adult movie...
It sort of means, "over-the-top", while at the same time it does not mean that the item has violated the rules. That is, Gonzo entries can often advance the person to the next round.
Sometimes they don't.
A gonzo entry is daring and is pushing an undefined envelope. Sometimes to their benefit in terms of sheer creativity. Sometimes to the point of being looked down upon for be gratuitous in some manner, for it's own sake.
At least once, a judge has looked suspiciously at a item for trying to capitalize upon the "gonzo effect". The reaction was not a favorable one. Yet that item did get the person to the next round. We have no idea how many other gonzo items didn't, because the judges thought they went too far.
Gonzo is not necessarily bad, but relying on it to shore up your entry is risky. In my opinion anyway.
Jason Nelson
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
Two things I'd like to add to this excellent advice are:
2) Your Item doesn't have to be Über Super Mega Gonzo to be considered. Some of the simplest Items from last year were my favourites (Elizabeth's Haunted Shoes were my absolute favourite). My Item used flare, a simple 0-level Spell. It was the twist in execution that turned my Item from "0-level Spell-in-a-can: Pass" into a Top 32 pick.
I like Über Super Mega Gonzo as much as the next guy, but sometimes it's the simple things that make you say "Wow, I want one of those" just as much.Just my 2cp, take it or leave it as you see fit. :)
This is an interesting point, because I have a friend who is planning to submit this year and came up with a nice item, a low-power thing, and I suggested to him that, before he submit, he might think about working up a higher-power item as well.
The rationale for that was that a lot of people have turned in good low-power items, and I think more in 2009 than in 2008, and have gotten kudos for making interesting low-level items as a virtue in and of itself. I wondered if that might continue as a trend, to the point where the pendulum actually swung heavily over to getting a majority of low-power items, with a greater chance of someone else either coming up with a similar concept, or just getting lost in the wash of items of similar level.
A creative low-power definitely shows good chops, but I suggested that it might be the case that a creative higher-power item might stand out more, or might have fewer direct competitors, if there is a heavy rush by folks to create the perfect low-level item.
| Neil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
I'm of two minds on the "low-powered" vs. "high-powered" wondrous items. First, when I see a really well-done low-powered item, I think I value it more than the high-powered ones, because there's so few of them. However, because of that, they're actually much harder to do...and, correspondingly, do well. I think the judges recognize the degree of difficulty involved in an item of such simplicity. So, if you pull it off, that might help you get in the Top 32 that much more easily.
But, you're also trying to appeal to the voting public to catch their eye for future rounds of the competition...and hopefully make their Top 5 favorites in Round One. As such, I wonder how many of them value low-powered items more than the high-powered ones. My guess is not that many. Gamers are generally split with a higher percentage favoring a bit more hack-and-slash (and hence, potentially "high-powered") style of play. So, if I wanted to maximize my chances of designing something that grabs the voters' attention, I'd be more inclined to do a high-powered item, simply because it inspires more in terms of what PCs (and villains) can do with it.
Regardless, I'm sure we'll see both types of items make it through. Just, from a strategy standpoint though, I think a somewhat middle-of-the-road or higher-powered item may serve a designer better in the competition. Still, it's only one round. And a competitor can make up any amount of ground with each new challenge.
Just my two-cents,
--Neil
| Neil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
Hi all, this is my first post in these forums and I'd like to start with a question: what does "Gonzo" mean?
To me, I view "gonzo" in wondrous item design as skirting the fine line between "amazingly awe-inspiring" and just plain "absurd"...
More than one judge has commented in year's past that gonzo for gonzo's sake doesn't make an RPG Superstar. But gonzo in service to some really great creativity, coupled with professional design and execution, most certainly is Superstar quality.
Jason Nelson
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
I'm of two minds on the "low-powered" vs. "high-powered" wondrous items. First, when I see a really well-done low-powered item, I think I value it more than the high-powered ones, because there's so few of them. However, because of that, they're actually much harder to do...and, correspondingly, do well. I think the judges recognize the degree of difficulty involved in an item of such simplicity. So, if you pull it off, that might help you get in the Top 32 that much more easily.
But, you're also trying to appeal to the voting public to catch their eye for future rounds of the competition...and hopefully make their Top 5 favorites in Round One. As such, I wonder how many of them value low-powered items more than the high-powered ones. My guess is not that many. Gamers are generally split with a higher percentage favoring a bit more hack-and-slash (and hence, potentially "high-powered") style of play. So, if I wanted to maximize my chances of designing something that grabs the voters' attention, I'd be more inclined to do a high-powered item, simply because it inspires more in terms of what PCs (and villains) can do with it.
I probably should have prefaced my advice to my friend with the proviso I would advise anyone to take our advice on high vs. low power items with an entire mine of salt, because it's nothing more than a guess about what will appeal to the most people (in general) and to the three judges (specifically, because they're the only ones choosing for the initial cut).
Trying to strategically appeal to the judges or the public is always a calculated risk, but I suppose in a way it is a good trial run for creating gaming materials professionally - you need to think both inside your own head of what YOU think is cool but also in terms of how other people would use this thing and have fun with it.
You've got strategic choices to make, and there will be folks who love low stuff and others that love high. What matters most is the idea - is it COOL? - and the execution - does it WORK? Whatever the power level, if you nail those two areas you'll have a good shot.
Regardless, I'm sure we'll see both types of items make it through. Just, from a strategy standpoint though, I think a somewhat middle-of-the-road or higher-powered item may serve a designer better in the competition. Still, it's only one round. And a competitor can make up any amount of ground with each new challenge.
Just my two-cents,
--Neil
It's true. Front runners can run aground and also-rans can hit their stride and take the lead. First impressions are important, but consistency and (even better) showing you can learn, adapt, and improve count for a lot more.
| Neil Spicer Contributor, RPG Superstar 2009, RPG Superstar Judgernaut |
You've got strategic choices to make, and there will be folks who love low stuff and others that love high. What matters most is the idea - is it COOL? - and the execution - does it WORK...
Absolutely agree! Nail down those two areas and power-level of the item is meaningless. It'll stand on its own regardless.
| Jerett Schaufele Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9 |
| Curaigh Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Marathon Voter Season 9 |
Hi all, this is my first post in these forums and I'd like to start with a question: what does "Gonzo" mean?
Gonzo was always doing something off the wall that somehow still worked. Of course he was named after another Gonzo who did similar things for Vaudeville.
| Samuel Kisko RPG Superstar 2008 Top 16 , Marathon Voter Season 6 aka Core |
To me a perfect example of "gonzo-ness" would be baba-yaga's hut which runs around on chicken legs. Classic, yet weird for the sake of weirdness.
Not really too strange considering the mythology, and context they were drawing from. Also the Deities and Demi-gods at that time had numerous Finnish and Slavic deities so I suppose it was in flavor of the rules as well.
Now 1st edition initiative mechanics? Now that was gonzo :P
| Charles Evans 25 |
Jason Nelson wrote:You've got strategic choices to make, and there will be folks who love low stuff and others that love high. What matters most is the idea - is it COOL? - and the execution - does it WORK...Absolutely agree! Nail down those two areas and power-level of the item is meaningless. It'll stand on its own regardless.
Disclaimer:
I entered RPGSuperstar 2009, with a 1600 GP item which invoked protection from arrows once a day, which obviously didn't make it through the first round otherwise I would be posting right now with a 2009 tag next to my name. Conceivably some lingering feeling from this might colour my views with regard to my assessment/opinions of the item round.Looking back, my overwhelming impression of the Items Round from last year is that the judges were most interested in 'IS IT COOL?!?!?', and that any concerns about balance or game mechanics were peripheral. Off the top of my head just now I recalled specifically Neil's leaves item (for me the stand-out item of the round), and that there was a sizeable number of what in my opinion were 'minor artifacts disguised as massively undercosted wondrous items'. Going back and actually checking last year's Round 1 I have found the Mongoose Claw, the Dread Trinket, the Withering Hourglass, the Heart of Oblivion and the Boundary Chalk, all of which struck me as massively overpowered and/or undercosted at the time, although following in-thread discussion and feedback regarding the latter item I subsequently revised my opinion of the Boundary Chalk.
But my point is that last year the judges struck me as seeming to be going for items that they thought of as 'cool' and not necessarily whether or not the items were balanced or high/low powered. Alongside the horrors of the Mongoose Claw (seriously that item was so powerful for cost that as originally written it made sense for a party to have a backpack full of them and to switch new ones in as their uses/day were exhausted) there were small items such as Neil's Last Leaves of the Autumn Dryad and Kevin Carter's Spider Hook.
Jason Nelson
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
|
You forgot the abyssal spurs, also massively undercosted but a cool idea.
It may be that coolness trumps mechanics, at least in terms of getting your foot in the door, though most of those who got into the top 32 with items too far left on the cool/mechanics scale didn't make it too far in the competition. Just cool ideas will not pay the fiddler if you can't bring the total package when the more complex assignments start kicking in, though I can certainly understand the frustration of those folks left on the outside looking at an item with a cool concept but iffy execution and saying "that shoulda been me!"
What can I say? Competition is hard, and (to use American school grade nomenclature) sometimes getting a B in both Math and English isn't as good as getting an A in English and a C in math. Your average grade is the same, but if someone reading it is impressed enough with the A, they may overlook the C. If your B in both areas doesn't rise up enough to grab them, you'll never get a second look.
| Whitman |
What can I say? Competition is hard, and (to use American school grade nomenclature) sometimes getting a B in both Math and English isn't as good as getting an A in English and a C in math. Your average grade is the same, but if someone reading it is impressed enough with the A, they may overlook the C. If your B in both areas doesn't rise up enough to grab them, you'll never get a second look.
I think you've hit the nail square on the head. The winner of this competition will be writing a module, from which the publishers will be hoping to make a profit. Now, when you buy that module, you take for granted that the mechanics are sound, but many DMs will be buy books even if the mechanics are not ideal. Heck, you'll even catch them buying modules from previous editions or completely different games, if what those mechanics help to portray is cool enough.
So, while mechanics are certainly important, presenting a really cool idea is what sells. This may go some way to explaining why judges will take a chance on cool ideas with ropey mechanics, but not so much the other way around. (I do recall a couple of examples where judges were impressed by mechanics, but the idea was also cool in those cases.)
| Clark Peterson Legendary Games, Necromancer Games |
Disclaimer:
I entered RPGSuperstar 2009, with a 1600 GP item which invoked protection from arrows once a day, which obviously didn't make it through the first round otherwise I would be posting right now with a 2009 tag next to my name. Conceivably some lingering feeling from this might colour my views with regard to my assessment/opinions of the item round.Looking back, my overwhelming impression of the Items Round from last year is that the judges were most interested in 'IS IT COOL?!?!?', and that any concerns about balance or game mechanics were peripheral.
Charles, hey, don't worry, that doesn't seem like sour grapes at all. Just teasing. :) I appreciate your comments.
Listen, we judges aren't perfect. And nowhere is there listed an ideal wondrous item. They didn't give us a model answer to grade you all by. Wondrous items are so diverse. And, as you know, there is some "art" to the science. It is pretty subjective, I admit. And that makes it hard for the people who submit. This is not a 100 meter dash where you know if you are faster you will win. Its not objective and measurable. Believe me, it would be easier on us judges if it was.
I've said this a million times and I will say it again: most people miss the boat because the confuse what the task is. This is not an open call for wondrous items. (and I am speaking generally, not about your item; frankly I don't recall your item). This is the application for RPG Superstar. The wondrous item design is simply the TASK we gave to help us select who among the 1000 or so who want to get to actually compete in the competition. So the fact that a submitted item might be totally publishable in a big book of wondrous items isn't really what we are doing here. Sure, design is big. Because in the end you get a design gig with Paizo.
Think of it like the auditions for American Idol. I don't care if you sing Mary Had A Little Lamb with 100% perfection. You're gonna get beat by Bohemian Rhapsody sung at 90% perfection. It's not just that BR is "cooler," its that its harder and shows greater range and chops and skill. Or if you dont like that analogy, think diving or gymnastics--also very subjective grading. You start with a degree of difficulty for your "routine." Flawless execution of a low difficulty routine, while impressive in its flawlessness, likely wont beat a slightly flawed execution of a higher degree of difficulty routine. (Note, that doesnt necessarily mean power level of the item; all prior judges have said that low level items can be the hardest to design).
| Clark Peterson Legendary Games, Necromancer Games |
In keeping with the idea that our task as judges in the first round is essentially deciding who, from the 1000 or so entrants, gets to actually compete in RPG Superstar, I did some homework.
The TASK we give to help us with that selection is design of a wondrous item. Why? Because its short, for one thing. We couldn't read 1000 monster stat blocks. It also shows design and rules chops, which are important. It gives some room for creativity but it constrains that creativity, which shows an ability to follow instructions. It also has a lower bar to entry than, say, a larger project. So it is a good task for us to use.
But in the end our task is not really to find the BEST item per se but, using that rubric, to find the best 32 contestants.
I've discussed this before, but it bears repeating: I have gone back to both years of RPG Superstar to review our picks and see how they fared in subsequent rounds. As judges we actually rank the top 32 (we have to, so that we can pick alternates, etc). While I wont reveal those rankings I can say that both years the Top 4 had at least 1 if not more alternates in it. What that means is that the wondrous item task is not a perfect fit for figuring out who the final Superstar will be. I can't speak for the other judges, but I can say that I keep that in mind. I've said it before: spark and mojo matter to me. Why? Because ultimately, so long as competent design chops are presented, its the people with the spark and mojo that go far in the competition.
| Clark Peterson Legendary Games, Necromancer Games |
Going back and actually checking last year's Round 1 I have found the Mongoose Claw, the Dread Trinket, the Withering Hourglass, the Heart of Oblivion and the Boundary Chalk, all of which struck me as massively overpowered and/or undercosted at the time, although following in-thread discussion and feedback regarding the latter item I subsequently revised my opinion of the Boundary Chalk.
So let's see how those fared...
Mongoose Claw made Top 8 before failing to make the cut to Top 4. Not bad.
Dread Trinket knocked out right away.
Withering Hourglass also out right away.
Heart of Oblivion made top 16, but out at Top 8.
Boundary Chalk also top 16, out at Top 8.
Throwing in Abyssal Spurs, an often cited entry with design issues (which I actually rejected at first and pulled out of the reject bin), that one was out right away too.
Spark may get you in, but if you can't deliver on design chops you are in trouble.
Remember, just like American Idol, we also expect the contestants to grow over the course of the contest. They dont start out pre-formed as professional designers. Look, there just arent clones of Monte or Woflgang or Sean out there fully formed and as perfect on rules knowledge as those guys and to expect that level of perfection is impossible. I'm not sure there has been even 4 items that were perfect in their execution the last two years in the first round. So you HAVE to allow some imperfection.
Lord Snow
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thank you, Mr. Peterson for his swift replay and Mr. Spicer for his advice. however, I might have not been clear enough with my question (and am sorry for that- the advice still helps).
the kind of Item I'm talking about is not a piece of colourful background(well, not only that, anyway). it is hard to explain my meaning without revealing anything about the idea I have in mind, but here goes:
lets say there is an item that is very useful when negotiating with foreginers who speak diffrent languages, but it is large and clumsy and probably not worth carrying around when the PCs go out to adventure. however, if for example they have a diplomatic mission that envolves communicating with barbarians who only speak their own tongm and are near enough an embassy large/important enough to own said item, they will immidatlety think of asking premission to use it. in such a way the item comes into play when the PCs interact with a challange that has to do with it. the only diffrence between this example and my own idea is, I belive, that my item will use a mechanic that can not be easily solved with a spell or class power.
does that count as an item that the PCs cna not use? 'cause I have plenty of other ideas browing in my head and even though I like this one the best maybe it is better to just skip it and focus on the devlopment of another item?
again, huge thanks for all advicers in this thread.
| Charles Evans 25 |
... I've said it before: spark and mojo matter to me. Why? Because ultimately, so long as competent design chops are presented, its the people with the spark and mojo that go far in the competition.
Which is where I say: "Exactly: What the judges are most interested in in Round 1 is IS YOUR ITEM COOL?!?!? Even Clark has come out and said it."
I think we may be at a slight variance here on the precise definition/usage of the word 'cool'. :)| Clark Peterson Legendary Games, Necromancer Games |
thank you, Mr. Peterson for his swift replay and Mr. Spicer for his advice. however, I might have not been clear enough with my question (and am sorry for that- the advice still helps).
the kind of Item I'm talking about is not a piece of colourful background(well, not only that, anyway). it is hard to explain my meaning without revealing anything about the idea I have in mind, but here goes:
lets say there is an item that is very useful when negotiating with foreginers who speak diffrent languages, but it is large and clumsy and probably not worth carrying around when the PCs go out to adventure. however, if for example they have a diplomatic mission that envolves communicating with barbarians who only speak their own tongm and are near enough an embassy large/important enough to own said item, they will immidatlety think of asking premission to use it. in such a way the item comes into play when the PCs interact with a challange that has to do with it. the only diffrence between this example and my own idea is, I belive, that my item will use a mechanic that can not be easily solved with a spell or class power.
does that count as an item that the PCs cna not use? 'cause I have plenty of other ideas browing in my head and even though I like this one the best maybe it is better to just skip it and focus on the devlopment of another item?again, huge thanks for all advicers in this thread.
Dude, you are coming way too close to posting your item here. You probably shouldn't do that. "The only difference..." I know everyone wants to hear, "yes, your item will be fine" but we just arent going to tell you that. Work on your item, get feedback, and submit the best one you can. That's that.
| Charles Evans 25 |
if I may, I would like to get this thread back on its original tracks.
I checked through all the previous top 32's, and noticed that all of the items are basicaly adventuring gear or combat orientad.
is it not recommanded to create an item which the PCs probably never use in a dungeon crawl/will probably have no need of owning, but might ery well encounter?
for example, if i design a magical tapestry (which I'm not) that has no adventuring use but could be commonly found in the households of rich nobles or marchents, and has some awesome effects to it (again, having nothing to do with combat, skill checks, spell casting etc.),but it will spice up the setting, will it work for the contest?
(edited)
Look at Clark's previous few posts to me. If I understand correctly, the judges are looking for something which makes them sit up and think 'WOW! This Guy/Gal might have something amazing about them', not for an item which is good to end up in an item book.
KarateFriendship
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Lord Snow wrote:Dude, you are coming way too close to posting your item here. You probably shouldn't do that. "The only difference..." I know everyone wants to hear, "yes, your item will be fine" but we just arent going to tell you that. Work on your item, get feedback, and submit the best one you can. That's that.thank you, Mr. Peterson for his swift replay and Mr. Spicer for his advice. however, I might have not been clear enough with my question (and am sorry for that- the advice still helps).
the kind of Item I'm talking about is not a piece of colourful background(well, not only that, anyway). it is hard to explain my meaning without revealing anything about the idea I have in mind, but here goes:
lets say there is an item that is very useful when negotiating with foreginers who speak diffrent languages, but it is large and clumsy and probably not worth carrying around when the PCs go out to adventure. however, if for example they have a diplomatic mission that envolves communicating with barbarians who only speak their own tongm and are near enough an embassy large/important enough to own said item, they will immidatlety think of asking premission to use it. in such a way the item comes into play when the PCs interact with a challange that has to do with it. the only diffrence between this example and my own idea is, I belive, that my item will use a mechanic that can not be easily solved with a spell or class power.
does that count as an item that the PCs cna not use? 'cause I have plenty of other ideas browing in my head and even though I like this one the best maybe it is better to just skip it and focus on the devlopment of another item?again, huge thanks for all advicers in this thread.
Eh, I don't think anyone can glean anything from that post other than that his item is of the wondrous variety. I think getting some feedback would be a good idea though.
Steven Helt
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Also...don't post something too similar or you might get bounced on recognizability.
Neil and Jason: I appreciate your dialogue about hig and low-powered items. And I have to say, I am always tempted to go for the big stuff. In the end, my entries for both years were powered down a lot. But, maybe I should take advantage of the extra word count and swing.
But then, maybe a lot offolks will shoot closer to 300 words, and I can earn some favor with a good item that is mercifully 75.
Who knows? I am a 'make 20 and submit one' kind of guy. So I am reviewing my six current ideas and trying to find time to come up with more.
Good luck to everyone...and pick me! pick me!